Recoil spring poundage?

[PaiN]

Outside of a reloader who is tuning their gun for a particular load(which I am not), why and is there any benefit to going above(or below) the factory spring poundage?
Having shot the crap out of plenty of P and CW9s, I found their recoil and flip minimal at best, so I'm sure a K9 is going to be even less and all had pretty much perfect function. I am going to order two Wolff recoil springs for the K9....but wanted to talk about this before pressing the buy button. Because, after reading through posts on my new to me K9, it was recommended I get replacement recoil springs and increase it from the factory #20 to the #23.
Again, what would be the benefit? The pistols seem to work like fine tuned machines with the factory specs. I would think a heavier spring would increase the chances of an FTE and increase ware and tear buy adding force to the slide closure.

thanks

[jocko]

no one is going to argue with your thoughts on that, If you feel good with what is in there,just stick with it. I like the little heavier poundage for my reasons of. I feel it might be kinder and genltlier on the gun, It might produce less felt recoil. For some a heavier spring can make it harder to hand rack also. Recoil spring life is longer with a heavier spring. It will help bring the slide back to battery faster and with more gusto, possable elimiinating FTF or slide not going into full battery.

Kahr factory springs are good springs and if u feel all is well with that set up, just stick with it. You know we gun guys think we also have to play around with what is normally good to go without us tampering with it.

A good example for me is the Ruger lcp. They put in a chessy 9# recoil sprign and some of the guns have alittle issues getting into full battery. Now Wolffs makes a 13# recoil spring for that little 380 now and Those that use it swear that it just makes the gun work so much nicer and felt recoil is definitely less. My reason that ruger put in such an ultra light recoil spring is that the gun is very small and the 13# spring is harder to hand rack over the 9# spring.

I have run the 22# wolff spring in my K9 for the last 3 years.

[Kenjs2]

Can someone give me a quick tutorial on spring science? The effect of wire diameter, number of coils, how to determine pressure/force etc.
I'm thinking ahead to the possibility of modifying my PM45 mags to fit flush with the grip. Is it possible to have a six round mag with a regular or a flush mag? I wouldn't want to go with a taller height to get an extra round. Hope you guys don't mind newbe questions.

[PaiN]

Good points jocko, I especially like the idea of extended spring life....
I hardly ever shoot anything but standard pressure 9mm and I use different brands dependent on what is available. I'm going to stick with the factory #20 Wolff. I do like to tinker but I also like the fact that Kahrs work damn good as is...

[wyntrout]

Can someone give me a quick tutorial on spring science? The effect of wire diameter, number of coils, how to determine pressure/force etc.
I'm thinking ahead to the possibility of modifying my PM45 mags to fit flush with the grip. Is it possible to have a six round mag with a regular or a flush mag? I wouldn't want to go with a taller height to get an extra round. Hope you guys don't mind newbe questions.

Wolff Gunsprings makes Kahr springs and here are their FAQ's. I've asked them for more info on the springs but they see providing too much might lead to liability problems as people improvise.

http://www.gunsprings.com/faq

Wynn:)

[DasFriek]

I only mess with spring weight if the gun has a few hiccups in the first 500 rounds to help tune what the gun is asking for. Then at 1k rounds i try and step up one weight higher and then test that, Many of the reasons jocko mentions.

As a spring ages and gets used it gets lighter, Thats why buying the highest quality springs is a good idea as wear happens alot slower. A heavier spring will help keep the nose down on a gun during recoil as it increases the guns lock time during firing.
So sometimes tuning is meant to help the gun be as reliable as possible as it can help clear up some feed and ejections issues.

But over doing it with too high of a spring can be worse than one too lite. It will slow the slide down after a shot so much to the point you cant fire as fast, But whats worse is it can batter the frame when it slams the slide home on the barrel lug and take down pin which neither is made to handle being slammed in that direction like a really heavy spring does.

Ive also read people counting coils and measuring length of new springs and thinking they should be cut according to length and coil count.
All springs are different and made of different materials and tempered different and never the same length. The only time you need to worry about length and coil count is if your slide wont fully retract like it should.
Or if your lightening a spring for a certain reason which you should be very careful about that as you can render a gun as useless or even dangerous.
If a spring says its 24lb its only 24lb's if you don't mess with it, Cut it and it gets lighter no matter how much you take off.

[PaiN]

I ordered up the two of the standard weight Wolff springs.....that should last a good long time. I noticed as I was checking out Wolff ships these springs with a factory weight replacement striker spring also ....nice of them, no? :)
I'm off to watch a few vids on detail stripping a Kahr upper.....

[jocko]

I ordered up the two of the standard weight Wolff springs.....that should last a good long time. I noticed as I was checking out Wolff ships these springs with a factory weight replacement striker spring also ....nice of them, no? :)
I'm off to watch a few vids on detail stripping a Kahr upper.....

would leave ur original striker spring where it is at, IMO. they don't wear out never heard of one even breaking. I think wolffs does that with all their recoil spring sets. I know on the ruger lcp and the kel tec's they included the firing pin spring. No one to my knowledge ever used them.
Just my 2 cents on this..

[PaiN]

FS: two K9/P9 Wolff striker springs $5.00 shipped :wof:

[DasFriek]

I believe they ship the striker springs and firing pin springs for other guns for liability reasons. In theory a heavier spring and cause the slide to slam closed hard enough to make the firing pin overcome the FP spring and ignite the next chambered round as an AD.

Since it was a stiker spring thats just the same exact spring thats OEM as Kahr uses Wolff springs anyhow i saw no advantage in swapping it, Maybe at 2k rounds i may.

But on any 70 series 1911 you better change that firing pin spring anytime you change the recoil spring since the FP safety isn't on these guns.
I still do it with my series 80 even tho i know its a moot point, But it does eliminate the chance of a broken spring.

The Kahr upper is rather easy once you find a guide on disassembly, But once you get close to removing the back panel keep the rear of the slide cupped by your hand or you will be looking for all kinds of parts that just flew all over the room.

[Jim K]

Can someone give me a quick tutorial on spring science? The effect of wire diameter, number of coils, how to determine pressure/force etc.
I'm thinking ahead to the possibility of modifying my PM45 mags to fit flush with the grip. Is it possible to have a six round mag with a regular or a flush mag? I wouldn't want to go with a taller height to get an extra round. Hope you guys don't mind newbe questions.

Check out this link:

http://www.leespring.com/engguide4.asp?mypdfstr=C3

Lotsa spring science here as you click around the menu. One thing to note is the effect of cutting compression springs. The preload will go down as you clip coils but the spring rate will go up. Check it out. A few minutes reading will save you from a life time of internet "experts".

Feliz Navidad, Jim K

[PaiN]

I was only joking about the striker spring sale ;)
The K9 is used and even though it looks pristine and feels tight I have no idea of its actual round count. So, just for piece of mind and having a starting point, I'll be replacing both the recoil and striker springs with the new Wolff parts.
I agree, the Kahr slide disassembly didn't look to bad....and I don't have to take it fully part to change the striker spring, basically all that needs to come off is the back plate.

[jocko]

Check out this link:

http://www.leespring.com/engguide4.asp?mypdfstr=C3

Lotsa spring science here as you click around the menu. One thing to note is the effect of cutting compression springs. The preload will go down as you clip coils but the spring rate will go up. Check it out. A few minutes reading will save you from a life time of internet "experts".

Feliz Navidad, Jim K

My son is a quality control engineer with Cummins and two of his vendors that he works with are cummings valve spring makers. I just thought a valve spring was a valve spring. I have learned so much from my son and his experiences with these vendors who make valve springs for cummins engines. the amount of quality control that goes into a damn valve spring just blew my mind. Not sure the science is quite as technical in gun recoil spirngs but companies like wolffs know their stuff, we have to rely on their findings and products as being throughly tested before offering them to us shooters.

another reason why I hated to ever hear a kahr teck tell an owner just cut a couple coils off and u will be ok, etc etc, yadda yadda.. If that was really the case, then wolffs could just make a few different diameter coils and when you ordered recoil springs for ur gun they would comein 3 foot lenghts and they wouldhave a note in there to count so many coils and then clip and fire away. certainly there is more science than that.

[jocko]

I was only joking about the striker spring sale ;)
The K9 is used and even though it looks pristine and feels tight I have no idea of its actual round count. So, just for piece of mind and having a starting point, I'll be replacing both the recoil and striker springs with the new Wolff parts.
I agree, the Kahr slide disassembly didn't look to bad....and I don't have to take it fully part to change the striker spring, basically all that needs to come off is the back plate.

that 5# wolffs striker spring is one awesome drop in part. You will not get light strikes either . Trigger travel doesn't change, just the poundage. Nice addition.. I higly recommend it. Doesn't make a hair trigger either as 5# is not a hair trigger.

[PaiN]

that 5# wolffs striker spring is one awesome drop in part. You will not get light strikes either . Trigger travel doesn't change, just the poundage. Nice addition.. I higly recommend it. Doesn't make a hair trigger either as 5# is not a hair trigger.
Remember I said the trigger on this K9 was phenomenal...? The thought even crossed my mind that it was a little too slick :faint2: I wouldn't want to change a thing especially since I appendix carry :eek:

[jocko]

It might have the 5# striker sprng in it--possably. Yup, if it ain't broke , don't fix it.