K9 vs K9 Elite

[KahrKeys]

Here's the story. I'm a gun owner but have always purchased full size but now am looking for a concealed carry in 9mm that's not too small (I've tested the PM9 but I've got big hands and it just didn't feel right in my hand). I've been prowling forums, doing research, and debating for a few months now and have finally settled on the Kahr K9. My last debate is whether to get the K9 or the Elite version.

So far it sounds like I'm dropping over $100 for a better trigger in the Elite - a trigger which is on every other Kahr gun now except the standard K9. Is this correct? Also - and this is for people who have owned or shot both the K9 and the Elite - is it worth the difference? Has anyone switched from the standard K9 to the Elite because of the trigger?

1 more thing. Looking at the Kahr site I'm already 99% sure of my answer. Does the Elite come in anything but polished? If I go Elite I would love to have it in black, but I don't think Kahr makes them that way (yet).

Thanks for your help!

[jocko]

kahrkeys:

PM sent..

[ripley16]

I'm picky about the trigger. I did not especially like the trigger on my standard K9. My newer K9 has the Elite trigger and I like it much more, maybe because it is the same as my other Kahr triggers. My K9 has the best, smoothest trigger of the bunch. My K9 was retrofitted from the standard to an elite, the exchange done by Kahr's customer service.

Is the effort and expense to swap triggers worth it? I would say yes. Having the elite trigger is what sold me on the gun.

If you want black then you have two choices; buy a standard black K9 and switch the triggers, or buy a K9 Elite and have it refinished.

[KahrKeys]

Sorry to resurrect this one, but as I get closer to purchase I'm wanting to clear up all the details. Are the Kahr K9 and the Kahr K9 Elite now being produced with the same trigger? I've heard people say the triggers are different, but I've also heard people saying that if you buy the standard Kahr K9 that it has the same trigger as the Elite.
Can anyone confirm? Thanks!

[ripley16]

The one and only reference I can find regarding the triggers on K9s is found here;
http://www.kahr.com/specsheets/KahrSpecChart.pdf
The standard K9s all have the asterix denoting the NYPD trigger, whereas the K9 Elites are not marked with the asterix. Note the trigger info between the two pages referenced. Using this information I would say that the 2003 Elite K9 comes with an Elite trigger.

It may be worth a phone call to Kahr to be perfectly clear and accurate.

[jocko]

Sorry to resurrect this one, but as I get closer to purchase I'm wanting to clear up all the details. Are the Kahr K9 and the Kahr K9 Elite now being produced with the same trigger? I've heard people say the triggers are different, but I've also heard people saying that if you buy the standard Kahr K9 that it has the same trigger as the Elite.
Can anyone confirm? Thanks!

standard K9 has NYPD trigger system which is 1/2" trigger travel. The K9 elite has the 3/8" trigger travel system. EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GUN IS EXACTLY THE SAME. . I have the NYPD in my K9 and my PM9 has the elite and I can't tell the difference in either. IMO takes a real good shooter to realize a 1/8" trigger travel distance..

All kahrs except the standard K9 have the elite trigger . including all cw series ..

K9 elite would be model #K9098 and K9098N (nite sites). Now the elite if you oruder it that way comes with highly polished slide and beveled mag well, where as the standard K9 has the matt finish slide and no beveled mag well.. You can not order a K9elite in the black dlc finish.

[ripley16]

I can see where the confusion is possible. Nowhere in the list of Elite features does it mention the trigger. The info is kind of left in limbo.
From the Kahr site;

Elite 2003
The polished stainless steel finish and laser etching on the frame are available on all Kahr Elite 2003 pistols - the K9, MK9, K40 and the MK40. The lustrous finish complements our innovative designs and solid construction. The magazine well is beveled for easier magazine reloading. The feed ramp on the barrel is polished to a high luster to insure reliable feeding with all types of ammo. Laser engraving on the frame provides the finishing touch to the polished stainless steel - for an appearance as impressive as its capabilities.

Perhaps the description should include a reference to the trigger.

[PaiN]

I have too say, I don't notice any real difference either.
If anything (and there could be multiple reasons for this) I shoot multi-taps better with this K9 than any other Elite trigger Kahr I've had.

[jocko]

I have too say, I don't notice any real difference either.
If anything (and there could be multiple reasons for this) I shoot multi-taps better with this K9 than any other Elite trigger Kahr I've had.

I think because kahr calls it the elite trigger that many are sucked into thinking they have a cheaper trigger system, which indeed they do not. Knowing what I know now, I would not pay a $150 more to get a K9 elite, I don't personally have found feeling of the polished slide and owning both trigger systems, I can't tell the difference. Both are smooth as glass. If the truth be know I shoot my K9 NYPD better than my PM9 with elite trigger but I also feel it is the difference of the guns to. Steel over polymer trumps most all the time for feel and accuracy. truth be know if kahr seen me shoot either one, they would probably take them away from me as I am horrible with both, course more horrible with the PM9:33:

[KahrKeys]

Thanks for all the quick replies! I left a voicemail with Kahr and also left them a email - of course they're closed until Monday, but I will be sure to post their response as soon as I get an answer.
From all I've heard it sounds like they have different triggers, but it makes very little sense for only the Kahr K9 to have the NYPD trigger system. Again, something they should make a little more clear on their website.

Even if the triggers are different, I'm with most of you guys...I don't think I'd be able to feel much of a difference, if any, between an extra 1/8" trigger pull. Plus, I like both the matte and black finishes a lot more than the polished.

[jocko]

The K9 was the only gun at the time that was approved by the NYPD. All the other kahrs was not on their approved list. That is why the K9 still today has the nypd trigger in 90% of K9 being shipped today. Even though today this K9 is no longer on the NYPD approved off duty carry lisst. But I am told that kahrs still services the over 5000 of the K9's that are grand fathered in with the NYPD..

Not sure what you asked kahr either,as everyone on here has stated the exact facts, but I guess one has to hear it from the makers to believe us guys..

I question why the k9 today does not come standard with the elite trigger like all kahrs, expecially when the K9 NYPD is no longer on the NYPD approved off duty carry list. Kinda makes no sense to me but kahrs seems to muddy up the waters with this to. Why not just offer the K9 with the elite trigger like all other kahrs and if one wants a fancier K9 with the polished slide and beveled magwell, offer it like they do now in the K9 elite version. Sounds simple to me, but kahr maybe wants to make u send your gun back to them at your cost both ways which could be easily $60 plus the trigger exchange of over $120 and for what ???1/8". Trust me if you trade the gun, u won't get a dime more for the elite trigger over the NYPD trigger for again 98% of the buyers of K9 don't even know the difference in the first place, let alone be able to tell the difference when both are in their hands..

[G3709]

I received answer from Kahr Arms regarding the Elite trigger.
As far as the triggers all Kahr pistols currently come with the elite trigger system. They have always had the same trigger. Only the K9 came with the option of having teh upgrade done because it originally had a different heavier trigger pull.

v/r
Nate Arsenault
---Kahr Arms---
Customer Service

[jocko]

If I am reading you right, ALL KAHRS CURRENTLY COME WITH THE ELITE TRIGGER SYSTEM. And that statement is dead ass untrue. The K9 line in the dlc finish and all except the two elite models listed come with the NYPD trigger system in them. Hopefully I read your statement wrong.

I would like to think that comment came from a janitor at Kahr whose duty is to clean the rest rooms and empty the waste baskets, and certainly not from actual kahr tech people..

[G3709]

Hi Jocko,

As far as the triggers all Kahr pistols currently come with the elite trigger system. They have always had the same trigger. Only the K9 came with the option of having teh upgrade done because it originally had a different heavier trigger pull.

v/r
Nate Arsenault
---Kahr Arms---
Customer Service

Above is the exact quote from Nate at Kahr Arms, customer service. You can check with Kahr to see whether he is a customer rep or a janitor. I only forward his answer to the forum. I got this answer a few days ago when I e-mailed Kahr customer service about the NYPD and Elite triggers.

[jocko]

not doubtng you, just saying that Nate is dead ass wrong. but heh don't believe me or what others here know as well about the K9's I believ eyou can just go to the kahr webb site and see their models and the NYPD trigger is standard on all K9 except the two elite models of which one is with night sites..

[ripley16]

It sounds like you are both saying the same thing but in a different way... at least to me that is.

[jocko]

but it sounds to me like upgrade meant the "elite" trigger . as the all kahrs hav ethe elite trigger in them as u know is wrong. All kahrs except the K9 with NYPD trigger which is 90% of allK9 shipped today . have the elite trigger in them. Unless kahrs has made a change to this, which I am checking on as I write this but my inside higher up source who is in customer service knows the straight poop. I hope that kahr has indeed went to ALL K9'S HAVEING THE ELITE TRIGGER IN THEM. It just makes sense being they no longer are an approved NYPD carry gun..

Have to wait and see what answer I get back.. and G3709, certainly not disputing you at all, so take no offense and I will be the first to admit I am wrong here to, but I just don't think I am ...

[KahrKeys]

jocko - thanks for checking with your Kahr source. I'm looking forward to hearing what he has to say. I certainly trust you guys, but there still seems to be a lot of confusion out there, which is why I left Kahr both a voicemail and an email looking for an answer. (now watch me get 2 different answers from them. I trust that won't happen because I trust Kahr, but that would do a great job adding to the confusion)

It would be a wonderful surprise for us all if they changed the K9 to the Elite trigger.

[G3709]

I would like to purchase the K9 but was concern about the NYPD trigger. I went to Kahr website; saw same thing as you wrote. I also heard from a friend that K9 no longer comes with NYPD trigger but Elite one that why I requested clarification from Kahr Arms. That was Nate’s answer. I guess that anybody who purchases a recently produced K9 can verify whether his K9 has a stock (not upgraded) Elite trigger. I believe the best approach to this and thing such as beveled front-end slide is for Kahr to announce changes they make on Kahr pistols in their news section of their website.

[jocko]

they really don't even announce the beveled slide thing which is only on the PM series and not ther K series. Kahr in their webb site now mentions nothing about the NYPD trigger at all, so who knows maybe they got wise and dropped the NYPD trigger as it is no longer needed. One way or the other we are all looking for a answer that is correct and not specualtion. on my part or anyone elses either. I will get to the bottom of this come first of the week, that is for sure..

[jocko]

I would like to purchase the K9 but was concern about the NYPD trigger. I went to Kahr website; saw same thing as you wrote. I also heard from a friend that K9 no longer comes with NYPD trigger but Elite one that why I requested clarification from Kahr Arms. That was Nate’s answer. I guess that anybody who purchases a recently produced K9 can verify whether his K9 has a stock (not upgraded) Elite trigger. I believe the best approach to this and thing such as beveled front-end slide is for Kahr to announce changes they make on Kahr pistols in their news section of their website.

even today that 8 out of 10 could not tell you what trigger is in their K9, 1/8" is IMO very difficult to :"feel" that difference. we I think make way to much about the nypd tirgger anyway, almost like it is a plague to have it on your gun, which this gun was made in 95 and came with the nypd trigger back then, so hard telling how many 100,000 of nypd k9 are out there now and no one knows the difference. When we read on this forum and others of people who own and shoot a K9 and brag to hell out of it, my Bet is that 95% of those people have the nypd trigger in the gun and knew of no difference...

If thee nypd trigger k9 is no longer approved by the nypd for off duty, then IMO it should be dropped and the elite trigger should be in ALL KAHRS.STANDARD.... with the NYPD trigger now being an option for one if he wants to send it back and pay kahr to do it, instead of vice versa.. and maybe now that is what kahr is doing...

[KahrKeys]

Kahr was quick to get an email back to me this morning..!
"Good morning. The K9 and K9 elite do have the same trigger. The only
different trigger is a K9 that is marked as having an NYPD length trigger
(it is denoted on the case). The NYPD length trigger is 1/2" as opposed to
a 3/8" trigger pull. I hope this information helps.
sincerely,
Jay
Kahr Customer Service"

They didn't mention when they started putting the Elite trigger in the standard K9, but it must have been recent!

[jocko]

that is goodnews..

[jocko]

Got my response back for my kahr inside person and indeed kahrs K9's now are all being shipped with the elite trigger in them. the only model made witht he NYPD trigger will be the K9093C (with the C depicting the NYPD trigger.)

Kudos to kahr for getting this K9 running like all the rest of the kahrs and not trying to confuse people (me included).. It certainly would have been nice had they had a starting serial number depicting the elite triggers

[kpm9]

Yeah, I've been reading this and for all intents and purposes, I can not tell the difference from my new manufacture K9 (DLC) and my PM9 in trigger feel, pull length and weight.

[KahrKeys]

Gah! I wish they could get it straight. As I said before, I sent both an email and left a voicemail over the weekend. I just got a voicemail back from someone at Kahr saying that they are shipping the K9 out with BOTH triggers...some have the Elite and some have the NYPD.
If this guy at Kahr is correct then you'll have to be cautious when buying a new K9 by making sure the model says K9093 and does not have a "C" on the end.

[jocko]

Gah! I wish they could get it straight. As I said before, I sent both an email and left a voicemail over the weekend. I just got a voicemail back from someone at Kahr saying that they are shipping the K9 out with BOTH triggers...some have the Elite and some have the NYPD.
If this guy at Kahr is correct then you'll have to be cautious when buying a new K9 by making sure the model says K9093 and does not have a "C" on the end.

what your saying. I really trust what this person told me though. I just can't say anymore. I do think your right in that all new K9 todaya re being made with the elite trigger which was not once what it was. Only the elite back then had the elite trigger in them. Now the elite will stand by itself as a highly finished outside and beveled mag wells. But it just makes so much sense to be making the k9's with the elite trigger. I scored the kahr webb site and there is nothing even mentioned about the nypd trggier k9's not even that model with a C behind it..The letter "C" is not even shown in their letters listings even. but again no mention of any NYPD trigger either..

[Jeff00042]

So, if you order the Elite version, you are getting laser etched lettering, a polished slide and beveled mag well for how much more?

[jocko]

about 80 bucks

[onegun]

If you do a search on the Kahr web site for K9094 it will bring up four models. Two are the K9094C (with different sights) I didn't try the regular K9 but it probably is the same.

[jocko]

thank you one gun..

wow now this is confusing, as the NYPD model is supposed to be only the K9093C (staihnless finish only) The K9094c is the dlc finished model.

Hell i give up. To my knowledge they never ever offered the NYPD trigge rin the dlc black finish even..

[onegun]

I had a black DLC with the NYPD trigger a couple years ago and sold it off. I could easily tell the difference between that and my PM9. The pistol felt good and shot well but I didn't care for the trigger. The PM9 trigger, to me, is great. I have a new K9 Elite on the way. My favorite big autos are my SIG P220 SAS DAK and my SIG P229 SAS2 DAK. The Kahr K9 certainly fills the bill for a smaller EDC. The PM9 was never a primary with me.

[KahrKeys]

I guess the goal if you're buying a K9 is to be very particular and pay attention to what the model says on the outside of the box.
Kahr being so unclear is a little frustrating, though, because it causes sellers on places like gunbroker to not list a model number because they don't realize there are 2 different model numbers for the Kahr K9. If I were to buy one I wouldn't know if I'm getting the Elite or the NYPD trigger.

[ripley16]

If I were to buy one I wouldn't know if I'm getting the Elite or the NYPD trigger.
My K9 box label has the "C" in the model number. Another label mentions NY. It may not be hard to determine what's in a box, but a wary buyer should first ask detailed questions about the gun. My K9 is a 2008 product, FWIW.

[jocko]

for sure the box is about your only the way to be totally sure. It sound sto me like if one has a K9 that is a few years old, that it has the NYPD trigger be it the dlc finish or not. As back then I am pretty sure that all K9's were made witht he NYPD trigger EXCEPT the K9 elite versions, which today is no longer that way..

Buying a use done or one with no box is going to be a crap shoot, even with one bought today which might be again sold used but no box indicating what really is their. I wold guess only a call to kahr would be able to tell you exactly what is in the gun, and then you besth ope you get someone at kahr THAT REALLY KNOWS..

[KahrKeys]

Get this...I had the K9 on my wishlist at Bud's and I got an email this morning saying they just got them in stock. The model number on the website? K9093A.

Now what the heck is the "A"? Looks like I'll be giving both Kahr and Bud's a call today.

[REACT]

As back then I am pretty sure that all K9's were made witht he NYPD trigger EXCEPT the K9 elite versions, which today is no longer that way..

Not to cloud the issue any further, but I confirmed with Kahr this morning that my Dec 1996 K9 has the Elite trigger.

It's also a discontinued 9092N version. The box indicates that this K9 originally had Kahr's Black Titanium finish. A previous owner somehow removed the finish since it's obviously not black anymore and stippled the front strap.

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz310/buckoh5/Kahr%20K9/leftsidewithmag-small.jpg

[ripley16]

I suspect the box is not original to your pistol. The "2" indicates a carbon steel slide. Obviously, that is not the case.

[REACT]

The box stickers and gun serial #'s match.

How can you tell that the slide is not carbon steel? Kahr could not tell me for certain, but suspected the gun is carbon steel.

[ripley16]

The box stickers and gun serial #'s match.

How can you tell that the slide is not carbon steel? Kahr could not tell me for certain, but suspected the gun is carbon steel.

It has an aftermarket refinish then I assume?

[jocko]

I think the reason we are all screwed up is that every time someone asks kahr a question they are getting a different answer. Now i was told not to long ago buy someone higher up that the K9 originally came out with the NYPD trigger from the git go and now REACT is told his 96 model K9 had an elite trigger in it. That gun IMO has to be a carbon steel version also and not trying to start an argument either but my bet is that gun also had the nypd trigger in it.

The letter A after the model numbers today I have asked and never ever got an answer. They didn't know at that time what it meant and why it was there even. What kahr should do but they won't is to announce that effective yadda yadda date all K9 with serial numnber yadda yaddda will have the elite trigger in them fromt he factory and all K9 before that, normally will have the nypd trigger but a phone call to kahr could verify that one way or the other. It would be a shame for someone who has an older K9 and thinking it has the nypd triger in it and sends it in for the elite trigger to be installed when indeed the gun had the eite trigger, for I have stated that unless you have both trigger systems in your hand, ur not gonna be sure of what you have. One 1/8" travel is so so dificult to feel IMO....

I can assure you that most gun stores don't know of what the elite and nypd triggers are in kahrs either, so if you ask be prepared for a b. s. answer that might blow your mind.

[Bawanna]

The writing on the frame looks very much like the writing on my early K40 also. Looks like it was put on with a vibro marker. My frame is original black, I'm sure its carbon steel, the slide was replaced with stainless when the original black had issues. (on Kahrs dime I might add).

None the less it's a fine looking gun no matter what it's made of. I really dig that front strap stippling. I like a front strap that has a little grab to it.

That might even be Roguard? Its a silvery/ stainless looking finish also. Very tough too.

[REACT]

That gun IMO has to be a carbon steel version also and not trying to start an argument either but my bet is that gun also had the nypd trigger in it.

That has always been my assumption too. When I bought this K9 over a year ago, I didn't know the difference and I honestly didn't care what it had or what it was made of. I liked it and immediately bought it. Since then, I have read as much as I could about the K9 and I have assumed that my K9 was made from carbon steel and had the NYPD trigger. I was surprised when I was told that my K9 has the Elite trigger "based off of your model number." I only asked about the trigger because of this discussion, not because it matters to me what the trigger is called. Whatever it's called, I like it.

Who really knows? Most likely, models overlapped and there are many variances that exist that Kahr cannot fully account for. Unless Kahr kept meticulous records for every handgun they produced, they may not even know for certain.

[jocko]

ur last sentence is probably dead right... They ar enot gonna keep that type of records as to what trigger was in those models back then. today it is a crap shoot to get a good answer form them on those triggers even. What ever trigger is in your gun, you like it and that is all that matters. My K9 has the NYPD trigger in it ( I think) and I shhot it better than my PM9, so go figure..

[MikeyKahr]

My K9 has the NYPD trigger in it ( I think) and I shhot it better than my PM9, so go figure..

Once this ice clears up I'll have to swing by and "borrow" that sweet-looking overused PM9 of yours and see if I can get some groups so I can declare it's all simply shooter error. :p :cheer2: You know I know better, I wouldn't disrespect guru jocko like that. :lie:

[Cartman]

New member here. I'm enjoying the forum, there's a lot to learn. Here's my question: I have a K9 w/NYPD trigger and Diamond Black finish manufactured in 2007. Aside from the slight difference in trigger pull, what is all the hoopla about? I don't say that to be a SA, just trying to understand. Do I have a good gun or not? Bought it a month back barely used, and I put 200 rounds through it flawlessly.

[Indigo]

New member here. I'm enjoying the forum, there's a lot to learn. Here's my question: I have a K9 w/NYPD trigger and Diamond Black finish manufactured in 2007. Aside from the slight difference in trigger pull, what is all the hoopla about? I don't say that to be a SA, just trying to understand. Do I have a good gun or not? Bought it a month back barely used, and I put 200 rounds through it flawlessly.

The K9 is the top model regardless of trigger. Less issues than the polymer models. I like them so much I bought 4 of them if that tells you anything so that 50 years from now odds are good I can still have one that works. Or hopefully a K9 laser gun.

[REACT]

Do I have a good gun or not?

You've got a great gun. It doesn't matter what the trigger is called or what color it is as long as you like how it functions. My 1996 K9 works just like yours (flawless) and I won't be selling it anytime soon.

[G3709]

Hi KahrKeys,
Have you found out whether this K9093A from Bud’s has a NYPD trigger? I saw this listing too and I have e-mail Bud’s for clarification but Bud’s never get back to me. Then about a week ago, Bud’s sold this particular K9. If you bought this Kahr, does it have a regular trigger (elite)? I live in CA and K9093C (NYPD trigger) is not approved for sale here but the K9093A has been. Thank you for your reply.

[jocko]

The K9 is the top model regardless of trigger. Less issues than the polymer models. I like them so much I bought 4 of them if that tells you anything so that 50 years from now odds are good I can still have one that works. Or hopefully a K9 laser gun.

to agreewith you on every comment u made. K9's just don't give issues..

[jocko]

I would say if it is a K9093A it has the elite trigger, ONLY one model kahr has the NYPD trigger and to my knowledge it is the K9093C. The C is the designation for the NYPD trigger.

[G3709]

It really is about the way these gun shops list their products information. I would like to make sure that I purchase an approved model for CA. For instance on Sniperworld website, there is a listing of a K9093A but when I read further down the lines, Sniperworld has MFG ID of a K9093C and then it clarifies that the pistol is not approved for sale in CA. Bud’s site does not give much detail about their listing though.

Quote from Sniperworld:
Kahr Arms K9 Compact Pistol
Kahr Arms K9 Compact Pistol, K9093A, Matte Stainless Finish, Semi-Automatic, Double Action, 9MM Caliber, 7 Round Capacity, 3.5 Inch Barrel, Synthetic Grips

Kahr Arms Handguns (Pistols)

Product ID: 30668
UPC: 602686046916
MFG ID: K9093C
Note: This product cannot be purchased if you live in one of the following state(s): California, Maryland, Massachusetts

[jocko]

why not just call kahr and get the straight poop from them. Because sniper world prints something does not make it true. Getif from the horswe mouth..

[rvbgtr]

I think it is generally accepted that the K9s comes with the NYPD trigger but all other Kahrs come with Elite trigger. But if NYPD didn't adopt the K9 until 1998, what trigger came in the K9 prior to NYPD's acceptance of the K9 in 1998?

[G3709]

I bought a K9 from Buds that lists the model number as K9093A. It turned out that it has NYPD trigger and the model listed on the box is K9093AC. Buds got it approved by CA DOJ to ship it to me. I took Jocko's suggestion about you can't tell the difference of the 1/8" longer pull and accepted it. The striker spring is lighter than I like so the extra length of NYPD trigger serves me well.