New PM40 is a sweet shooter

[mudfish]

Purchased a new Kahr PM4044N (blackened stainless, night sights). Paid $845 out the door. As a previous P9 owner I had high expectations, but I was a little hesitant due to the bad PM40 reviews on the web. But dang this is one sexy little gun!

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/DiRTYDOG223/photo-2.jpg

After the initial strip n clean, I followed the break in procedure recommended here, including racking the slide 500x and dry firing every ten racks. I saw no evidence of plastic shavings or anything like that.

Here are the first five shots ever fired. Distance 5-yards.
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/DiRTYDOG223/photo-5.jpg

Recoil wasn't as bad as I heard about. It was pretty easy to stack rounds like this in slow fire.
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/DiRTYDOG223/photo-1.jpg

This is 50 shots.
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/DiRTYDOG223/photo-3.jpg

After 100 rounds of Win 180gr, I stripped it and cleaned. I found zero plastic shavings and nothing unusual.

I ran another 100 rounds of Win 180gr without a hitch. All thru the 5-rd mag except for four mag loads with the 6-rd'er. No malfunctions of any sort. I continued with another 75 rounds of 165gr Gold Dots shooting mostly double taps.

275rounds in all, no malfunctions. My hand felt fine other than a small blister that started to develop in the web of my thumb. I'm thoroughly satisfied with my new PM40 so far! And it's a great looking pistol too!

[garyb]

Good shooting. Glad you like her. I agree...it is a sweet shooting little 40. I have the Pm4044N too. I'm glad you did not listen to all the negative talk about how uncomfortable the PM40 is to shoot. It really is very pleasant to shoot. You have a fine defensive weapon there. Check out the Agrips, which help give it a nicer feel and grip in the hand. Also check out the Crimson Trace Laser. These two things make the PM4044N better than ever. If you are going to pocket carry, look at the Guru holsters at www.pocketholsters.com (http://www.pocketholsters.com) They make it for the PM40 with or without CTL. I love mine. Thanks for sharing your info.

[100percent]

Your gun looks longer and more beveled at the front than mine does.

Good shooting. Unbelievable that you racked and dry fired your new gun so much I just put bullets in mine. Great result however.

[Slynchee]

Mudfish, GREAT GUN. I have the same exact gun. I agree with gary, get the AGRIP. I shot mine for weeks without the AGRIP without any problems then I added the AGRIP. It made the gun even better. Gary is right, I too am glad that you did not listen to all the bad press about the recoil. I do not pocket carry, I am some what unconventional. I use a ZACH Holster and CLIPDRAW. With the AGRIP on the gun, I never feel it on my side. Anyways, congratulations on a great gun. BTW, nice grouping!!!!

[jocko]

Wow, what a group, the best I have ever seen, don't care if it was 5 yards or one yard, that is the best group I have ever seen. welcome t othe forum. I really think you need to change your sign on to DEAD EYE!!!

100%. His kahr is the latest model out with the extended beveled front slide. I can't figure out why kahr would have ever done this with a gun that is made to conceal and then make it longer. Never made any sense to me, plus fokks up when trying to order recoil springs and recoil assembly's. It is so far a crap shoot to see if you get the right springs. In your case, you better call kahr when you order any replacement recoil springs, or you will get the bigger/longers springs that are now going into this gun. (or order them from wolffs, as they stil lmake only the springs for what we now will have to call the older models..

IMO keep your older pM40, IMO I still think it is the best for what it was made for. my 2 cents..

[garyb]

I have the exact same PM4044N with the bevel slide as Mudfish's. I simply added the agrips and CTL. My understanding is that they added the bevel to make it easier to holster. I have found this improvement to be a good one. Are the springs actually different on this model than other PM40's due to length differences in the old vs new PM40's? Had the length specs actually changed? Seems weird to me that Kahr would change length and have this result in spring changes. Is it possible that all they did was add the bevel? Perhaps this question needs confirmation from Kahr. This is the first time I've heard the length and springs were changed. I'd love to see some close up photos of the older PM40 models to compare. I'm not saying it isn't possible that the springs are different due to length, because I am new to the PM40 and do not know all the ins and outs. I'm just wondering what they did when they added the bevel to the slide at the muzzle. It would be good to know so that I order the correct springs when the time comes. Just asking to increase my familiarity with this product. Thanks.

[jocko]

maybe the first time u have read it but not the first time it has been brought up on this forum . Thing about it. they lengthened the slide maybe 1/4+ inch, so the recoil rod assembly has to be longer (which it is) the recoil springs have to be longer (which they are). If you have read some of the past posts where some have ordered PM9 springs for thier kahrs and gotten longer springs by a couple of coils and were merely told by kahr to cut a couple of coils off and they are good to go. Now tell, me is that proper to tell a person to "oh just cut a couple coils off" and ur good to go.(why not sell them in 6 foot lengths and just give us readers the number of coils to cut and then we are good to go, one coil would last a lifetime and hell in an emergency they cold be used to unclog ones kitchen drain maybe.... Not sure any of us would accept that.. There are now two differnet recoil assemply for the PM40 and PM9 (which use the same exact springs in poundage and recoil rods). One fits the older models which problaby 200,000+ are floating around out there at least and now with this beveled slide thing there is another set and so far in the manual for ordering parts there is no part# correction to either. so we have had some posters coming on here saying, heh, what gives I ordered recoil springs for my PM9 and they are 2 coils longer and they won't fit.

Probably 4 or 5 million glocks floating around in peoples hands and the end of their slide is exactly like the "now older" model PM9 and 40". I never heard them complain of holstering them. If kahr told you that, IMO they are full of crapola, for my source inside when I asked about why the "stupid" change that just muddy's waters up and of no advantage, my answer was "THAT WAS WHAT THE BOSS WANTED". THAT MIGHT MAKE MORE SENSE BUT IT ALSO MAKES ZERO SENSE TO.

Also one must remember there are now two different PM40 barrel lengths to...
Some like the change, most who have the older models certainly want to hold on to those for u certainly do have a smaller and lighter model than what now kahr is offering, and I thought all along this was part of the kahr selling features..

Notice yet in their webb site they still show the older version PM...and I think they just updated their site in the past few months..

[kramm]

Mudfish, nice shooting and a nice report too. Congratulations on a prep. well done.
I think if owners took the time to do as you did in preping their new Kahrs a lot of issues that keep popping up in this forum would disapear.

[jocko]

Mudfish, nice shooting and a nice report too. Congratulations on a prep. well done.
I think if owners took the time to do as you did in preping their new Kahrs a lot of issues that keep popping up in this forum would disapear.

u got that right....

[garyb]

Yea, first time I read about the new spring and 1/4" length. I was aware of the bevel and like it. I guess I missed the posts on the forum...sorry I sounded uninformed. I will need to contact Kahr to find out what the proper part number is for my SR # PM40, so I can record it in my parts list. I'll follow up with Kahr sometime. Good info to have. Thanks for sharing the info Jocko.

[jocko]

Yea, first time I read about the new spring and 1/4" length. I was aware of the bevel and like it. I guess I missed the posts on the forum...sorry I sounded uninformed. I will need to contact Kahr to find out what the proper part number is for my SR # PM40, so I can record it in my parts list. I'll follow up with Kahr sometime. Good info to have. Thanks for sharing the info Jocko.

they actually give you a parts order # for your new model, share it with this forum so we can log it in our memories..

[garyb]

On the road in our RV for a few more weeks and unfortunately don't have that info with me to share. Sorry. I'll check it out when I get back to home base. TX.

[earle8888]

I like the "beveling" not sure about the length change???
My PM40 is 2004 vintage. Works fantastic. Agree CTL Greaaaaat addition.

[garyb]

I'm not sure that 1/4" is such a big deal, but maybe, just maybe, that is why the new ones shoot so sweet. There seems to be a big difference between the old reviews and the new reviews of the PM40. In reality, I realize the 1/4" is not the difference between shooting sweet and the old version of massive recoil. But I just had to throw that in...haha. I think it is alot of making a mountain out of a mole hill. Now on the other hand, the CTL is a mountain of an improvement!!!! So are the Agrips. Perhaps the magnaporting will be too...time will tell.

[100percent]

Jocko, No plans to upgrade to a longer barreled PM40. My budget is cheap and I shoot an "old school" PM40. If I was in the market for a new cc gun and 800 bux was my only choice I would be shooting something else. Nothing against the gun just the old "beer budget and champagne taste" problem. No money for cable TV, cell phone or even grid electricity at home. We all have our priorities. I do have internet!!!

[2thhacker]

I didn't realize there was a difference until reading this thread. Mine is the new "long" version. I have to believe Kahr will take care of the parts differences. Why not just bevel the existing slide instead of lengthening it though? It seems like that would have been simpler. That being said, I don't see a disadvantage to the 1/4" longer barrel/slide.

[mudfish]

The extra 1/4" typically just fills in that void between the squared muzzle of an older model and the tapered bottom of your holster. Barely noticable. Except perhaps the extra weight, probably less than an ounce more.

[MikeyKahr]

The extra 1/4" typically just fills in that void between the squared muzzle of an older model and the tapered bottom of your holster. Barely noticable. Except perhaps the extra weight, probably less than an ounce more.

The 1/4" is more than just cosmetic and weight. This conversation has been had previously on this discussion board, but consider the recoil spring for example. With a longer/shorter gun comes the need for a longer/shorter recoil spring to make a great gun work effectively. A member on here was even told by Kahr CS to DIY trim their recoil spring 2 coils to make it work in their gun - something ridiculous in my mind for an owner to do on their $800 gun, especially since Kahr has yet to come out publicly to differentiate anything partwise for the two different versions of the PM.

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4649&highlight=coils

[100percent]

Mikey
I too find it interesting that the factory would recommend that you cut two full coils off the recoil spring. Makes me think of Keltek (not to pick on them).

When I brought up that my Kahr

The 1/4" is more than just cosmetic and weight. This conversation has been had previously on this discussion board, but consider the recoil spring for example. With a longer/shorter gun comes the need for a longer/shorter recoil spring to make a great gun work effectively. A member on here was even told by Kahr CS to DIY trim their recoil spring 2 coils to make it work in their gun - something ridiculous in my mind for an owner to do on their $800 gun, especially since Kahr has yet to come out publicly to differentiate anything partwise for the two different versions of the PM.

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4649&highlight=coils

[100percent]

Mikey
I too find it interesting that the factory would recommend that you cut two full coils off the recoil spring. Makes me think of Keltek (not to pick on them).


The 1/4" is more than just cosmetic and weight. This conversation has been had previously on this discussion board, but consider the recoil spring for example. With a longer/shorter gun comes the need for a longer/shorter recoil spring to make a great gun work effectively. A member on here was even told by Kahr CS to DIY trim their recoil spring 2 coils to make it work in their gun - something ridiculous in my mind for an owner to do on their $800 gun, especially since Kahr has yet to come out publicly to differentiate anything partwise for the two different versions of the PM.

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4649&highlight=coils

[mudfish]

Let's stay on topic, we're talking about how sweet my new PM40 shoots. :).

[RONDO]

Nice initial posting Mudfish! Very interesting first impressions & pix :) .... really groovy lil PM40. ;)

[garyb]

Mudfish, I know the question on your thread took a turn, but for the sake of continuity I've posted a question to Kahr technical to find out about the bevel changing the length 1/4" and the spring length. I also asked for clarification on Kahr's position on advising users to simply cut off their replacement springs. If I get a response from Kahr to my inquiry, I will post it. Anyway, many agree with your point that the new PM40 is a sweet shooter. I certainly share your feelings with how my PM4044N shoots. Thanks for your patience with your thread's diversion. I simply want to find out a little more about the issue with the bevel, length, spring, etc...

[drgad]

Mudfish, glad your gun's working fine but, honestly, do we have to endure an advertisement for PETA on your cell phone?? They are one of the most radical and violent groups around! Can we please not use this forum to promote such things?

[garyb]

Kahr acknowledged the bevel and slightly longer barrel and spring change on the PM. They advised me to simply contact them for the correct part # for new springs for the old vs new version of PM series. They also stated that they had not posted the new version (nor specs) on their site. I asked how much and why the length changed; what the weight change turned out to be; and ask them to send me how much it changed their overall specs from old vs new version PM. I also asked if they were telling users to simply cut down the new spring for the old version PM; as this did not make much sense. Still waiting for their reply.

[jocko]

I got basically the same reply back. they claim they are in the process of updating their already updated webb sithe to show two different types of recoil assemblys and recoil springs for the newer version vs the older version but in the mean time one should call them to get the right thin g.

This is good but I doubt if most of the older version PM9 people know of this slide change , so unless they do call, they will get the new style parts which will not fit. they will get it straightened out EVENTUALLY, but for me this stuff should have been anticipated and the new vs the old pars should have been posted when they made this slide change, . Especially it needs to be in the owners manual, more so than the webb site.

According to one or two who have posted on this site, the cutting of the recoil springs was told to them. I seriously doubt if they will acknowlege telling anyone that. At this time I do not know who those posters were but it was posted on this forum and I do trust what our forum people stated, as to why would they want to fib about something that they really were innocent of doing wrong in the first place.

It is not the members of this forum that bothers me it is the many thousands of buyers that don't even know this forum exists and have no knowlege of slide changes etc.


If you hve noticed, their UPDATED webb site still shows the PM9 and PM40 photo with the old style slide

[garyb]

Yea, I also noted that the old version PM is still on the Kahr site. I agree that it is disturbing to see a manufacturer with such a good product be borderline negligent with by allowing their owners manuals, parts lists, web site, specifications, etc...to be out of date. I am fortunate to be on this forum to see what is going on and agree that the manufacturer's delay to update their materials leaves others uninformed. I understand that all manufacturers update and change products, but even RV manufacturers put out new brochures and updated web sites, specs, etc... when they come out with a new or modified product. Perhaps this failure is a culture within the gun industry, because I saw that Glock had not updated their site when they came out with their newer generation guns (the last time I researched and decided on buying the PM40). I have not checked Glock's site lately. I don't imagine that Kahr willd admit they told owners to cut the spring either. I also tend to agree with those on the forum that stated they were told to do this. I don't think they are fibbing. I just wanted to see if Kahr would fess up and bring attention to the fact that owners deserve current specs, parts lists, etc....

[jocko]

un know just a printed slip on paper insdie every owners manual who buys a PM 9 or 40 stating what model they have in order to order replace springs etc. How simply a fix can be until they come out with a complete new manual. I think Lazy is the better word for it, IMO>

[TheTman]

That is damn good shooting! I think you found yourself a keeper.

[garyb]

I received a reply from Kahr. They ignored my question about sending the new spring for an old Kahr and simply telling owners to cut it down to size. But I am not surprised they avoided this one. However, I had asked for the specs of the old PM40 vs the new PM40 and their Jay's response was simply that the specs were not in front of him/her at the time, but the spring weight had not changed. Kahr also stated that if the wrong spring was sent by them, they would replace it with the correct spring ASAP at no shipping charge.

I am disappointed with the incomplete detail of this avoiding reply. They could have easily provided me with the new specs and by now they should have them on their web site.

[mudfish]

I put another 50 rounds thru my PM40. Still love it.

[garyb]

I concur. I still love my PM40 too. It warms me to hear PM40 owners say positive things about how they shoot. The PM40 seems to be a 50 round kind of gun. I shoot the first 50 well. After that I lose my concentration and start doing stupid things that do not yield better practice. I've learned to shoot less rounds to build better shooting, rather than simply sending lead down range because I am enjoying it. It is a fun, comfortable gun to shoot, so stopping at 50 is an equal challenge for me. Just the right amount of power feeling. I want to improve with each practice session. I find the same thing in archery. My first couple of dozen arrows are the best. Then I fatigue and lose concentration which makes me start making silly errors. Those errors get imbedded in muscle memory. It is better to quit while I am still building good muscle memory, not deteriorate it. Everyone is different on how long they can maintain concentration, keep the mind and body working together so practice is going in the right direction and keeping it fun. It is simply a fun gun to shoot.

[jocko]

50 rounds is enough IMO, cost has to enter into it also. I use dto shoot alot with my PM9 but now range time is about 50 rounds. That is good enough to tell me that I still need alot of help..

[Bawanna]

That is good enough to tell me that I still need alot of help..



And going to the range provides the help you really need?

[mudfish]

90% of marksmanship practice can be done by dry firing. Going to the range confirms my dry fire marksmanship practice was effective.

You can't practice double taps by dry firing, or tripple taps or whatever, so range work is the only way to practice that.

[tconroy]

If ever there was a gun fight, I want you on my side!!!:):84:

[garyb]

copy that on the dry fire practice.