black diamond vs black

[srice425]

is there a difference between the "black diamond" finish and the regular black kahr pistols or are they one and the same?

[Bawanna]

As I understand it all of the recent production are referred to as DLC. Diamond Like Coating? if I remember that right.

Early versions were carbon steel and I believe some had Birdsong Finishes.

Those are the only two finishes I've ever been aware of on Kahrs.

[apheod]

which is better?

[OldLincoln]

I have asked the same question as have others. Google "Black Diamond Coating" and you'll find some interesting articles.
=====================
From http://www.military.com/soldiertech...ch_GRP,,00.html (broken link)
"According to Mark Hanish, SGC’s Purchasing and Sales Director, Black Diamond is only approx. 2 microns thick, but it exhibits an extraordinary degree of scratch resistance/durability. “I've got an exclusive with Nighthawk on the new model of the GRP which has a custom finish on here that we found, and it's a finish [Black Diamond] that you can't cut with a knife. Yeah, they're self-lubricating, they run smooth as heck, and they sent a slide out that had it on it, and I sat here and hacked on the thing with my knife, and you can't get through it. So, the finish that's on this gun, you can take your knife out and cut on it, and all you're doing is depositing knife on the gun. You can take some steel wool and clean it off. It looks brand new. You can't hurt it. It's unbelievable,” Hanish said. Both Perma Kote and Black Diamond are rust/corrosion-resistant and self-lubricating, so the Nighthawk Custom 1911’s require minimal additional lubrication."
===============

There's an article here (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3101/is_n8_v61/ai_7007114/) from 1997
--------------
"There is a new coating now available called boron carbide. It is black instead of gold, applied in a layer 0.000070 (that is, seventy millionths, [ or -] 0.000010) inch thick."
...
"The coating is applied at a relatively low temperature of 250 [degrees] F, and it approaches the hardness of diamond. On the Knoop scale it registers 4700 to 5000. By contrast, standard aluminum oxide abrasive grains register only 2500, while high speed steel is less than 1000. The hardest known material, diamond, has a hardness range beginning at 5500. The material's melting point is 2350 [degrees] C. It crystallizes at 1350-1400 [degrees] C, and its oxidation threshold in air is the same temperature. That figure equals approximately 2600 [degrees] F, well above the melting point of most steels.

In addition to wear resistance, it offers a smooth, non-porous surface with natural lubricity. This lubricity reduces friction and heat during machining."
...
"The coating, developed rather recently, is now produced and marketed by Carolina Coating Technologies, Inc., 100 Somerset Drive, P.O. Box 190, Conover, NC 28613. Its trade name is Diamond Black."
======================
Assuming this is the same as "Black Diamond" Kahr used to tout, it is tough. However, it appears dull blotchy black, very different than many expect.

The first quote came from the Nighthawk Custom forum at 1911.0rg in a thread named "What is Black Diamond?" (http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=23690). My jaw dropped at the very first photo there (a brand spanking new unfired Nighthawk) because it looks just like my PM9 with the roll stamping partially filled in, and the next pic shows the slide & frame blotchy just like my PM9 slide. So I'll finally accept my PM9 is the real Black Diamond.

The thread and others like it state the coating is resistant to normal wear except where on coated part rubs against another.

Now, this defines the Black Diamond coating and I'm convinced that's what I have on my PM9, but Kahr's "matte blackened stainless steel slide" may be something else entirely. They changed the marketing statements shortly after I got my PM9.

Funny, I complained about the blotchy finish that almost covers the stamping, and now I'm happy about it - go figure. What the heck, if it's good enough for a $2700 Nighthawk Talon, I reckon it's good enough for my Kahr.

[kramm]

Interesting, thanks for putting that info. out Oldlincoln.

[Bawanna]

which is better?

I think the DLC finish might be tougher but the birdsong is incredibly good stuff also.

No matter really since the only option now is the DLC. (if you want black) Unless you buy an older model or send one off to birdsong to refinish.

I have several guns that I wish to send to them as the piggy bank and time allows. Just got a 700 remington back last week and its incredible and reasonable too.

My HI Power will see Birdsong in the future for sure.

[garyb]

Bawanna, Do you have any contact info on the DLC or birdsong. You said you sent your 700 to be treated. First time I've heard or thought about it for some of my other firearms. Thanks a bunch.

[Bawanna]

Bawanna, Do you have any contact info on the DLC or birdsong. You said you sent your 700 to be treated. First time I've heard or thought about it for some of my other firearms. Thanks a bunch.

http://www.black-t.com/ This is the website for Birdsong Black T finish, they also have other colors now.

The DLC is just what Kahr calls the black finish on their guns. There have been earlier threads discussing that. I guess it goes by numerous different names.

[srice425]

my dlc coating just scratched all to hell by just putting it in and out of my leather holster.

[klay426]

Are the dlc guns plated inside and out? I will openly admit I don't know a fraction about guns compared to some of you but I can say I probably know more about diamonds than anybody else on this site. That being said a coating of diamonds sounds like the dumbest idea I've ever heard. If it's a marketing ploy of hardness then that would be one thing but from the few sites I looked at they state it is actually a diamond and polymer coating!?!? Diamond + moving= something is going to be destroyed. Whether it's the outside the gun, say holster or your clothing is a down fall but not the end of the world but inside, say everything that keeps your gun firing, could very well be the end of your world. Also, why would it need less lubrication? Hardest natural substance in the world and you want to rub that on metal or polymer with no lube? Please somebody explain to me why this is a good thing...

[JFootin]

It's a Tungsten coating of some sort. This post explains it: http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=148491&postcount=5

[TucsonMTB]

Are the dlc guns plated inside and out?
Yes, the black coating covers all the surfaces of the slide itself but all of the internal parts are plain stainless. There are some thin looking spots on the inside in the same areas that might be thin if it were plated, suggesting that the vacuum depositing process achieves results more like a bath rather than a spray. But, it is definitely a coating that can chip or rub off, rather than a treatment like some of the really durable black finishes. It is NOT one of the self-lubricating coatings, quite the opposite.

When brand new, the surface of my PM40 had a definite tooth that caught on paper towels while cleaning. Now that the pistol has been in service for a while, that is less noticeable. It still changes color from a dull gray when completely stripped of oil to a nice mat black when a thin film of oil is present.

On the bottom of the slide, where pickup rail slides over the rounds in the magazine, it quickly picked up a coating of brass when new. That's one area where drag might not be desirable so I polished the finish off to produce a smooth shiny surface. During that polishing process, it seemed as if the coating would be pretty durable. But, I have several small nicks on the front surface of the nose of the slide from careless handling and the lower edge of the slide where the take down pin routinely bangs it has lost the coating leaving some shiny spots.

I have two PM40's. One is plain stainless. The other has the DLC coating. In terms of appearance, the stainless pleases me just as much as the black and shows no handling marks, despite being service much longer that the black gun. The black coated gun direct Kahr is less expensive than having it coated after purchasing, so it's probably a good choice if you prefer to have a black gun.

Some people report that their DLC guns look like new quite a while after they bought it. They are either more careful with theirs than I or there may be some variation from gun to gun in terms of the coating's durability.

Using a sight pusher, I recently installed night sights on my DLC coated gun, leaving no marks in the surface (not even inside the dovetail) during the process. That surprised and pleased me. It also suggests that the coating is durable enough for most routine usage.

I should add that removing and reinstalling the sights on the plain stainless gun also did not introduce any blemishes. The metal used to make the Kahr slides seems commendably hard on the surface. I like that a lot. :D

[jocko]

the finish on the dlc kahrs is very very hard surface. again it is a finish, so abuse can make it look different. Rockwell of 90 is nothing to sneeze about in a finish the slide itself is not near that hardness. I like the dlc finish but I also take care of my guns to...

metal in a hardness of 30+ I would think would be far easier to scrach than one with a finish of 90 on it. Just sayin.

[TucsonMTB]

metal in a hardness of 30+ I would think would be far easier to scrach than one with a finish of 90 on it. Just sayin.
Hard to say . . . pun intended. ;)

All I can report is that some spots on my DLC slide show a little wear. How is your DLC slide holding up?

[jocko]

when I had the slide melted I had to have it refinished and it was duracoated by accurate-iron. in over 5 years there is not a wear spot on that fnish either. I really didn't have my dlc finsih on that long as I had custom work done on the slide almost from the git go. I was never a fan of dura coat for reasons I know not why eithebut this finsih on my PM9 is perfect and I spray brakleen on it all ovber to, I spare no area, including my xs big dots sights. Course they are blued sights to and not painted sights.