Carry what you Shoot?

[AFVet]

I stopped in at a local gun shop because I needed some carry ammo. I was hoping to get some 9MM and .45 +P JHP; however, they only had +P in .45. So I grab a box of 9MM Gold Dot 124 Gr. JHPs and ask the guy at the counter when they had some +P coming in. (Need to find a place that'll ship ammo to MA...Good luck with that I suppose...:()

That's when he said something I thought was kind of interesting. He said he doesn't like +P carry ammo because if/when he was in the situation where he might use it, he'd be more comfortable having regular ammo, like he practices at the range with.

Now it seems like there's a kernel of logic in there. I hit the range with the Federal and Winchester stuff from Wally World, which is certainly not as potent the +P carry ammo. And it does make a certain amount of sense to carry ammo with similar properties.

Anyway, I thought I'd throw the topic out there and see what others think. I'll probably stick with +P (at least when I can find it), but I can see the logic in his thought.

[jocko]

a very small kernel of logic IMO.

I have carried for 48 years and never had to draw in anger EVER. I shoot my guns like I stole um. My pM9 is my 24/7 carry peace, I shoot it 95% of my shooting range time also. I shoot 90% of WWB ammo from wall mart due to low cost. I carry corbon power ball, dpx, and gold dots, what ever floats my boat. I sure in hell can't afford to shoot that defense stuff 24/7 at the range. Almost two to one in price or more. and 9mm is probably the lowest price ammo compared to 40 and 45 cal ammo.

To me a defense situation will be close anyhow so I feel no difference in my shooting abilities with wally world 9mm WWB over or under my defense round at that time. I certainly don't want to carry WWB fmj ammo for my defense round. I do want a HP of some brand.

Ur topic is worth of discussion .

[Bawanna]

I'd say your gunshop guy is right except who can afford to practice with the good stuff?

When I go to the range my very first shots without any preparation or preplanning are out of my carry gun, then my backup ankle gun with whats in them, the Gold Dots.
That tells me right off if I've been carrying a gun that is not gonna work for me when I need it and it also lets me know if I'd had a need other than being in the range would I have hit sucessfully what I was shooting at.
I chuckle when I hear about the guy who planned his range visit so he cleaned/lubed and prepped his carry gun. In real life that opportunity is announced, it'll be a surprise and a big one!

I reload so try to tailor my loads to shoot close to the carry stuff. On the rare occasions when I buy store bought practice stuff I try to get Speer Lawman since it acts very much like the Gold Dot HP's in felt recoil and accuracy.

I've never used or felt the need for +P in any of my carry guns and in fact would like to find some good 38 ammo that isn't plus P. My Colt Cobra isn't built for it and it seems the only 38 you see if +P.

[AFVet]

I certainly don't want to carry WWB fmj ammo for my defense round. I do want a HP of some brand.

Ur topic is worth of discussion .

Let me clarify because re-reading my post, it is a bit confusing. He wasn't suggesting you carry WWB or non JHP. His point was carrying ammo with similar compression characteristics as you shoot at the range.

[jmk1138]

Well, was he just talking about 124 gr Gold Dot? The "non +p"?

If he's talking about firing ball at the range and carrying 124 gr Gold Dot (non +P), I'd say there's more than a kernel of wisdom there.

I'm also finding that the 147 gr HPs shoot well, and not a lot different than the 115 gr ball.

Familiarity can be a good thing.

As to the cost, I like to put a lot of lead down-range, too. However, don't forget the line of logic that the range time is to test what you've been practicing with the dry-firing.

[JohnR]

I'm no expert, but I can't say I've noticed any tactical difference between shooting my 9mm JHP carry ammo and WWB. Yes, there's "a" difference, but I can't see it changing my accuracy if I were under stress - there'd be a whole bunch of other factors affecting my accuracy; ammo type isn't one of 'em. Maybe recoil would make the second tap harder to line up, that's about all but that's why I'm getting a K9 to minimize that factor.

But I've always felt that I should train like I fight so I'll fight like I train, hence whatever I've chosen to CCW daily must be my range gun, regardless of how good a "range gun" it is. (I'm thinking of my PF9 here :( )

[garyb]

I think if I shot a 9, I would shoot +P too. I agree with Jocko that it could be expensive (especially in a 40SW) to target shoot with carry ammo (in many cases), especially Corbon DPX. Some carry ammo is not terribly expensive, so it is possible to shoot the carry ammo more frequently or at least occassionally. Some guys will say that you get what you pay for but I don't know that this is necessarily true. I've found good, viable options in 40 ammo that vary from reasonable to expensive costs. Either way, I'll always compare my carry ammo to the target ammo on the range, to be confident that they shoot alike or at least know the difference. I always price it to include the shipping costs and then compare the costs per round. It is easy to get fooled when you compare costs for box of 50 to a box of 20. Again, in some cases, it may not be cost prohibitive to shoot carry ammo occassionally on the range to stay familiar with it. However, that was my impression with the 40 and I have not researched prices for various types of carry ammo in the 9. Just some limited thoughts.

[jocko]

dry firing to me is boring. I need to hear that "bang" thing happen.

AFVEt, if your saying similar compression, I am assuming felt recoil. Any +p round or most defense rounds are going to have more felt recoil that fmj ammo, at least most fmj ammo. I'm cool with this fella theory, just not for me thats all. Some people carry different guns and calibers alot to. so for me that theory kinda shoots itself in the foot also. Unless one shoots alot to I would think his body would not adapt to differnet rounds like it would if you shoot alot with the same type of compression rounds. I don't shoot alot in the dead of winter here, no indoor ranges, to much of a pain in the a-s to fight the weather anymore at my age, so hell WWB feels different when I have not shot it for two months than it did when I was shooting every other day or so..

[JodyH]

It's a non-issue.
Spend more time at the range shooting and less time talking to gun store employees.

[PaiN]

AFVet..imo this one of those those over "thinked" points...While there is logic in the thinking....in real situation where you'd have to fire your carry weapon in defense of life or injury the ammo in the gun isn't going to matter a tinker's damn.....its all going to be reflexes and God's light shinning on you.

[Bawanna]

We have a Bingo here, emphasis on God's light shining on you. Training and practice are a fine thing but God's light shining on you will take you home everytime.

[aray]

There is no question that you want HP in a SD situation, both to make a bigger impact on the BG but also to prevent over-penetration and avoid hitting innocents behind. But in my case even though I shoot 9mm I don't shoot +P. I find that the extra recoil on my CW9 means, for me, that it takes me a significant longer period of time to reset my front sights. I'd rather make more holes and have the holes where I want them vs. fewer bigger holes with perhaps wider grouping. As a secondary point I've found some of the +P rounds have more flash out of the barrel, which is not what you might want to preserve night vision.

A final benefit is that when I shoot off some of the SD HP rounds (which I do periodically) that the handling characteristics are closer to the inexpensive Federal Wal-Mart stuff that is the bulk of my target practice, which I think gets to the point of the original post.

[jocko]

It's a non-issue.
Spend more time at the range shooting and less time talking to gun store employees.

of gun store employees are x-car sales people::behindsofa:

[jocko]

AFVet..imo this one of those those over "thinked" points...While there is logic in the thinking....in real situation where you'd have to fire your carry weapon in defense of life or injury the ammo in the gun isn't going to matter a tinker's damn.....its all going to be reflexes and God's light shinning on you.

I'll buy into that. over thinking has never been one my finer traits..:53:

[earle8888]

Practice, Practice, Practice!!!!
Dry fire YES
Hot fire YES
Cerebral planning YES, Think trough and practice drills(Mentally)

[ripley16]

I can see much merit in shooting what you carry, but it becomes a pretty expensive affair at the cost of quaility ammo these days. The happy medium I've struck is to use Speer Lawman, which is made to be a practice round, simulating the Gold Dot carry round. I also shoot a fair amount of NATO ball which also comes close to simulating +P carry ammo. Both of these rounds are much cheaper than my carry ammo, yet high quality.

For yucks and plinking I shoot the cheapest crap I can find that isn't steel cased.

[ltxi]

At least 25% percent of the ammunition, and always the last, I fire through a carry weapon at the range is what it's loaded with every day on my hip. I think of it as getting/keeping a grip on reality.

[JodyH]

At least 25% percent of the ammunition, and always the last, I fire through a carry weapon at the range is what it's loaded with every day on my hip. I think of it as getting/keeping a grip on reality.
The "reality" is either you have a lot of disposable income or you don't shoot very many rounds.
I'm averaging 600 rounds per week so far this year, last year was 450 rounds per week average.
The minute differences between carry ammo and practice ammo aren't worth the expense of shooting carry ammo more than once a month.
I've put it to the test on the clock, "cold" multiple times, and it's a non-issue.
If it's an issue for you, either your grip needs improvement or your overall shooting needs improvement.

[ltxi]

Each to their own, but I think 600 rounds a week to remain "qualified" with my two u&c carry guns is a bit excessive. And I do not agree that the differences between ball and performance carry ammo are normally minute enough to not matter in a reflexive use, lightweight, defense handgun

[jocko]

itxi: totally agree, very expensive also, but if one can do it and feel like it is worthwile then go for it. Curse if someone will provide me with the ammo, I would do it in a heart beat..

[JodyH]

Each to their own, but I think 600 rounds a week to remain "qualified" with my two u&c carry guns is a bit excessive. And I do not agree that the differences between ball and performance carry ammo are normally minute enough to not matter in a reflexive use, lightweight, defense handgun
I can tell the difference when shooting my carry ammo (BlackHills Tac-XP+P) and Winchester white box out of my PM9 but it makes zero difference "on the clock".
My draw to hit times are the same, my split times are the same, my target transition splits are the same.
It's a non-issue if your grip and technique are good.

[ltxi]

Whatever.

[MW surveyor]

If it makes any difference.....I reload with the same weight bullet and drive it at the same speed as my "store bought" carry ammo. This is the only thing that gets shot through my CW9. There is no discernable difference between the felt recoil, time to get back on target and shot placement. Matter of fact, I seem to shoot better groups when I rapid fire than when I take my time between shots to "aim". 3" groups are good enough for me.

[ltxi]

Makes sense. I don't reload anymore so I don't have that option. Practice ammo is factory ball.

[HadEmAll]

I will surely not say anything that has not already been said, but I, and, I literally believe, millions of others, carry +P, or +P+ in our carry guns, practice with it enough to check function and accuracy, and shoot standard pressure FMJ or JHP ammo the bulk of the time. It's easier on the guns and the wallet for most of us.

I can feel the difference in recoil at the range, but in a social situation, I seriously doubt anyone is going to notice any difference in recoil. You will be so pumped and full of adrenalin

Any time a "gun counter person" says anything, and I mean anything, I automatically doubt it until I verify it. I have heard some of the worst, most outlandish, innaccurate and downright silly advice and information from some of them, no matter how nice or sincere they seem to be.

That particular advice doesn't sound that unreasonable, on the surface, but I don't find it to hold water.

Did you ask him why he thought every ammunition manufacturer made +P/+P+ and why his shop carried it?