A couple reloading questions as I start back up.

[mad1ben2]

It's been 20-25 years since I last reloaded. Planning to get started back up and had a couple questions.

My objective is to start with 9mm and to simply reload rounds that would be used in multiple guns for range shooting and some IDPA events. I'd like to create quality rounds but at the least expensive overall cost. I'd also like to create rounds that properly cycle in a stock gun (would like to keep stock weight recoil springs).

Bullet weight:
1. Do lighter bullets require more or less powder than a heavier weight bullet? Trying to determine trade off of using lighter bullets versus heavier bullets and the trade off with the amount of powder required (to keep gun running smoothly).

Recoil:
2. For minimizing recoil, would I use a heavier bullet or a lighter bullet? Or does it mostly depend on the amount of powder being used?

That's it for now... I'm sure there will be more. thx! scott

P.S. I am very new to competetion shooting and have not studied terms like 'minor', 'major', and 'power factor' yet.

[Bawanna]

It's been 20-25 years since I last reloaded. Planning to get started back up and had a couple questions.

My objective is to start with 9mm and to simply reload rounds that would be used in multiple guns for range shooting and some IDPA events. I'd like to create quality rounds but at the least expensive overall cost. I'd also like to create rounds that properly cycle in a stock gun (would like to keep stock weight recoil springs).

Bullet weight:
1. Do lighter bullets require more or less powder than a heavier weight bullet? Trying to determine trade off of using lighter bullets versus heavier bullets and the trade off with the amount of powder required (to keep gun running smoothly).

Recoil:
2. For minimizing recoil, would I use a heavier bullet or a lighter bullet? Or does it mostly depend on the amount of powder being used?

That's it for now... I'm sure there will be more. thx! scott

P.S. I am very new to competetion shooting and have not studied terms like 'minor', 'major', and 'power factor' yet.

I've not loaded for 9 but I think the things your are considering are minimal at best. Generally you can put more powder behind a lighter bullet. Heavier bullets create more pressure so the charge is generally reduced. In a 9 the difference isn't gonna be much regardless.

Generally a heavier bullet will have the heavier felt recoil but amount of powder is a major factor. You could have a light bullet with a big charge vs a heavy bullet with a small charge and the lighter is gonna buck more. Again in a 9 it won't amount to much.

I'm not very knowlegable in the shooting game but I don't think there's any way to make a 9 fit into the major category. Others here active in the games will surely be more in the know on that. I know theres a formula but I don't recall exactly what it is.

I was away from reloading for many years and it was a challenge to get everything back. Little things and habits forgotten. It's actually helped figuring out answers to questions here to jog the memory.

[Tilos]

mad1ben2:
Welcome.
You just scored a 2'fer there.
A heavier bullet requires less powder and the recoils "feels" softer too.
The down side is heavier bullets cost more.

What type bullet(s) are you planning to use, cast, black,plated, jacketed?
If those 4 types I know of good sources for 3.
I also have stopped and started reloading a couple of times, but the equipment never becomes outdated as in other hobbies.

I chose Speed Steel matches with a 22 to return to competition, moved up to center fire (9mm) and never left Speed Steel for any other game, as nothing special is needed to compete.
I have been alllowed to start from the low ready position until I felt comfortable enough to draw from a holster.

There are a lot of quality reloaders here, willing to help with just about anything.

Tilos

[Bawanna]

Is Speed Steel w/22's a moving game or a stationary. Never heard of it. That would be a great affordable game to get into.

[mad1ben2]

Unfortunately I got rid of my RockChucker about 10 years ago during one of my many moves.. but still have some primers, powder (Bullseye and something else), and lots of brass.... I'm thinking of starting back with the Lee Pro 1000...

I plan on using jacketted bullets and have been looking at the Montana Gold & Berry's Bullets options. I'm open to any and all suggestions/recommendations though. :D Was thinking jacketted for 2 reasons... one is polyagonal (sp?) barrels and easier clean up.

Minor/Major are probably much more relavant to the .40 cal... For 9mm I just want to make sure the guns cycle and that I meet any power factor requirements for IDPA or USPSA just in case.

Thx again!

[Bawanna]

Check out Precision Delta. On Tilo's suggestion I did and ordered 2000. I've got a couple hundred loaded and ready for hopefully saturday before I start pumping them out.
I can't remember now the exact price but they were very reasonable and look top notch.
Contrary to some that I'd read, I got mine in less than 10 days on my door step. Had heard it was months long wait but not this time. I was amazed.

Thanks again tilos for sending me there. Excellent tip.

[Tilos]

Mr.B:
No moving to it and I've been beaten by someone who has the same shooting stance that you use.

We shoot 5 times at each stage and throw out the slowest time.
There are 8(?) different target layouts with silly names like "smoke and hope".
4 or 5 different size/shapes of targets (steel of course) at varying distances.
The furthest target is 30-40 yards.
You can shoot a stage in any order but there is a "stop" plate that has to be shot last.
There is a website that has the target layouts and gives all the details.

Here's the link:
http://steelchallenge.com/sc-world-match/stages/

click the "club info" tab and you can put in your zip code to search for matches near you.

Speed Steel is what's it's called in Portland, Or. and the rest of the world calls it Steel Challenge.
Sorry I'm dog tired and used the wrong term there.
AND, my coffee maker's broke, I'm off to the store to get me one!
Tilos

[100percent]

I bought a couple of pro 1000s used with dies for 75 dollars. I never got 100% reliable primer seating so I just use two stages and deprime/resize in a manual press and use a Lee hand primer for priming. It takes longer but my rounds are 1000% more reliable. I keep one set up for 9 and the other 45. I use a single stage set up for depriming/resizing.

It is irrelevant to this discussion but I also have the larger Lee progressive press bought new a pawn shop that I interchange between 38 and 40. I have a big cast iron press that I use large caliber rifle. Also have two single stage presses at my other home mainly used for hunting loads.

Seems like I like a deal. I have always looked for nice turret press but have ended up with 3 progressive presses. In my opinion if you get a progressive you might well have a single stage or a turret press as well. There is a lot going on on a progressive and it is too easy (for me at least) to let something slip once in a while.

Enjoy your new/old hobby.

[Tilos]

There are both those who love and hate the Pro1000.
Other sites have Pro1000 stickies with a lot of inovative fixes and add ons.
I'm a tinkerer, and always think about getting a Pro1000 and actually two...for a 6 station:eek:.

Brass prep and prime in one; powder drop, seat, crimp in the 2nd press.
I could get "lost" tweeking a press like that, and would actually enjoy the challenge, but that's just me.

100:
Thanks for the post about your Pro1000 experiences.
Have you ever considered disconnecting the indexing for hand indexing, kind of like a backwards/upside down turret?
I'm thinking it would be less busy that way, easier to keep track of what's going on and could even be used single stage that way.

I know the cheap Dillon is hand index, because a friend double charged a rifle case and blew up his gun.
Wow, cheap and Dillon in the same sentence!

mad1ben2:
Sorry for the drift, but it happens a lot here and Mr.B doesn't care.
And none of us shoot reloads out of our Kahr pistols:rolleyes:

just sayin'
Tilos

[MW surveyor]

Shush, don't tell Mr. B.

Yeah right on the "none of us shoots reloads out of our Khar pistols"

Your can take the rod out of the progressive (I think) and use it as a single stage. I know you can on the turret.

[mad1ben2]

Is that "none of us shoot LEAD reloads out of our Kahrs"??? :)

[mad1ben2]

I still have 1/2 lb of Bullseye and 2400, still have ~800 CCI 500 and 550 primers, still have my 9mm and 38spl Lee dies, and a couple hundred miscellaneous bullets. I read through 5 reloading guides and my 2 reloading manuals (Lyman and Speer)... again, all this from 20-25 years ago.

I'm thinking of getting the Lee Pro 1000 with 45 dies (since I already have the 9mm dies and 45 is my next reload quest). Delta's prices look really good for FMJ.

Also looks like Bullseye is one of the best all around handgun powders, so I'll start with that. May also pick up some W231 as it seems a good all around handgun powder as well.

25 years ago I was just out of college and reloaded the cheapest way I could. This time I think I'll spring for a tumbler (clean brass just looks so good!). I'm comfortable with the Lee Auto-powder function but think I'll probably stick with hand priming... that's what I used to do and from what I've heard, most Pro1000 complaints involve the priming function.

Thanks again for the responses... maybe getting into reloading will slow down my sleepless nights thinking what gun I want next (yes, I've been dreaming about those $297 Taurus 24/7s at Buds for a few months now! :p... and the more I read about the all steel Kahrs, the more I need a K9 and T9 :D).

Another quick question... I read in the Speer manual that I can use the CCI 550 primers in place of the 500s without any issues... just don't reap the benefits of the magnum primer since the powders I plan to use will be fast burning. I had the 550s for loading 357mag with the 2400 powder. I can either save them for the day when loading magnum loads is what I'm into, but rather than keep them and buy more 500s, I'm thinking I'll just use the 550s when I run out of the 500s. Do you agree I can use the 550s in applications that call for 500s without any negatives?

[Bawanna]

I've often wondered about that primer deal myself. Winchester doesn't differentiate, they say for standard or magnum loads.

Unless it was a top end hot load I don't believe a magnum primer would hurt anything. Its not that big of a difference.

[Tilos]

I was told that primer stuff came about for H110 and W296 sometime ago.
Someone told me because I'm not old enough to have known this:lie:.

During the hoarding I used Remington mag primers for 9mm and W231 powder as that's all I could find.

I am a big fan of BE too, but use W231 in the progressive because a double charge will overflow a 9mm case.
And I should notice that when I try to put a bullet in there:eek:

Tilos

[Bawanna]

Just wanted everyone to know I got the BE. Bullseye. I'm so proud.

Back in the day I had Bullseye, Unique, and 2400. Covered it all and weren't that many other good options. Lots of new choices out there now days.

Haven't unscrewed the lid on anything but W231 for a pretty long time now.

[mad1ben2]

I have to share... As I said I went through my 20+ year old reloading stuff last night and amongst it I found 100 rounds of 9mm I'd loaded way back when...

I was lucky enough to take my lunch break at the range today and all 100 rounds went boom, every time! I split the rounds between my TP9 and my PM9... both shot POA and I couldn't tell any difference between my reloads and factory ammo with the exception of smoke... my reloads were noticeably smoky and dirtier than the factory stuff.... if I recall that is a downside to the Bullseye (although I could be confused with the 2400).

Anyone know if today's bullseye is different than bullseye from 25 years ago?

Is W231 less dirty/smoky? I would prefer a less dirty powder if there is one that can easily be adapted across the various handgun loads (380 - 45).

Any hoo - this has definitely given me confidence that if I did it once I can certainly do it again! :)

[MW surveyor]

I use BE and HP38 (same as W231) both seem to be about the same regarding smoke. One thing that you also have to remember, the majority of the smoke is from the lube on the bullets if you are shooting lead.

Hey, you wanna see some smoke? Load up some target rounds in 38 or 357 with a light charge and put in some polyester filler in the case to keep the powder next to the primer. If you do it during cottonwood pollen season, you will fit right in! Smoke and fibers drifting around the range. Everyone looks at you/your gun and then asks if you are shooting black powder or some other questions that you don't want to answer.

Gotta go back to work. It's Friday and everyone wants something done by the weekend. Also since it's sunny here in Houston, the wife thinks I should be working outside. (I work out of my house. Longer hours than office work that's for sure but have the ability to do stuff without having to take a day off to do it.)

[mad1ben2]

Ha! Not sure I'll get around to testing that out... I'll take your word for it! :)

[100percent]

I think on the Lee 1000 pro the center rod is also what holds the shell holder carrier in place. On my units the cartridge plate can be rotated by hand. My main problem with it was that on the bottom of the down stroke the primer would be pushed in. It was hard to feel when it bottomed out and sometimes I would have tall primers or I would have a primer tip and not be available to be inserted. I couldn't tell that of course and only discover it when the loaded ammo was discharged, minus the primer. :(

[Tilos]

Creme of wheat as a filler produces an amazing fire ball.
be careful though.
just sayin'
tilos

[Bawanna]

Pondering on this buffer material my head tells me that Cream of Wheat or any material of that density would not allow any room for expansion inside the case. (or maybe it does?) Obviously it works for you so my thinking isn't correct.
The buffer material I've seen was like like cotton, it would hold the powder down on top of the primer but would deflect or compress allowing air space inside the case when discharged.

Just seems like a case filled with anything that won't compress would invite high pressure.

Where is my thinking off here?

I'm not pondering any loads where I'll need a buffer but was just letting this bounce around in my head, lord knows theres plenty of empty space to play in.

[Tilos]

You would be correct there, about pressure.
Do you want me to come by on Monday nights so we can shoot some steel challenge?
Oh, wait that would be a 14 hour drive one way...um never mind.

Tilos

[Bawanna]

You would be correct there, about pressure.
Do you want me to come by on Monday nights so we can shoot some steel challenge?
Oh, wait that would be a 14 hour drive one way...um never mind.

Tilos

I'd dig a little steel challenge. I'm gonna see if theres any of that going on around here.

So to the question of pressure is it insignificant or do you reduce charge to compensate or should I go back to working on my lunar landing vehicle.

Your only a little over a week from returning to civilization. That's gotta be something good to look forward too. Animals, open spaces, less people, more room to shoot stuff, access to all your toys and equipment.

Why don't I just come over there?

[MW surveyor]

Bawanna45cal

The load was using Unique which is somewhat postion sensitive. Kapok is the filler that had been used in the past. The "new" stuff is the polyester filling used for stuffing pillows, soft toys, large volume cases, etc....It does give more consistant burn and thereby tighting up groups when shooting target loads. You only use about 0.5 grains by weight of the stuff in a 38 or 357 and push it in with a pencil. Doesn't really compress the load.

I've been tempted to use the "fireball" stuff but after my experience with the polyester (basically the time required to stuff each case) won't be doing that in the future.

[Bawanna]

Gotcha, I think kapok is what I remembered. You stuffed it down so there was still considerable room in the case for expansion.

Maybe Tilos was pulling my leg on the cream of wheat deal.? Am I gullible or what?

[MW surveyor]

Yes, there is still alot of "air space" left in the case. The polyester is not compressed to any degree and also has alot of air in it.

Not sure about the Cream of Wheat. I have heard of somethings that are similar (corn meal?). Hey, did you see the mythbusters experiment where they used non-dairy creamer dust to cause an explosion. Bet that would also work but I'm not going to try it. I love my SP101 too much for that and no way I'm using the CW9.

[Tilos]

Just about anything dust/air, in the right mixture, is explosive.

Sawdust or grain; grain elevator explosions have been ended through engineering, but were once common.

Mr.B:
Space for expansion, like a muzzle loader?:confused:

You forgot my old dog "Dave", I spent some quality with him before I left, thinking I'd never see him again...and he's become my wife's dog in my absence:(.
Two thirds of my stuff is here, just the wrong stuff.
I'm down to building crates for my wife's stuff now.

Tilos

[100percent]

I have found that w231 works very consistent in revolver (and semiauto) cartridges. It doesn't need any batting. Many other powders are not nearly as reliable in this respect.

Take apart a Winchester factory 38 special or 45 colt round and you will be amazed at the amount of air in the cartridge.

[Bawanna]

I've never used filler for any standard load and your right theres a ton of empty space sometimes especially in like a 44 mag with a light load but never had any failures.

The only time I used batting was playing around with a PO Ackerly triplex load many years ago. Kind of a long story but sometimes sound reasoning is best left somewhere else besides reloading.
I managed to blow up a good solid ruger 45 colt. They fixed it free but it was still dumb.
Needed the batting to keep the 3 different powders packed.

On that muzzle loader comparison, black powder will explode if you ignite a quantity where as smokeless will just burn unless its in a confined space. Plus the breech end of a muzzle stuffer seems a whole lot stronger than a brass cartridge.
I used to deliver to a flour mill downtown in an earlier life and the control room to monitor that place looked like a NASA control center. It was amazing.

[Tilos]

I was funin' with you on the muzzle loader thing, should have put some smileys in there.

So who's going to prime a case, put in some Gold Metal flower, seat a bullet, then touch it off and see what happens:eek:.
We may be on to something here...don't go over max though:rolleyes:.
Whole wheat flower would be a hotter load and healthier too.

The creme of wheat filler was used in fire forming brass, for a 10" TC, in 30 Herret.

I appoligize for the drift I just typed there, forgive me Mr.B

just funin'
Tilos

[MW surveyor]

You ought to see the empty space in a case when you load a 38 sp with 2.7 grains of BE and a 148 gr WC!

Your right, just about all organic dust is explosive, maybe even dirt? Work in shipping and have to be very careful when bulk loading.

[OldLincoln]

Should be good for laughs to pack it with goose down. You'll get some attention when feathers come flying out the barrel!

[getsome]

Ok here is two things: 1st for powder as I've posted before for everything from .380 to .45 ACP and everything in between I have had great luck with Universal Clays powder which is almost exactly the same as Unique but it burns cleaner and I have found it to be cheaper by several dollars but prices may be different in your area...Now for a buffer in large cases like .45 long colt or .44 magnum with light powder loads try using good paper towels like Viva or one of those that feels like cotton and not rough paper....Now cut out some small squares just a bit larger than the case opening and after adding the powder load just take a wooden dowel and push the paper towel square down to the powder level and it will stay...Try turning one over and if it falls out make it a little larger...Now this works great, no giant smoke cloud or fireball and if you had used that poly pillow stuffing it will gunk up the barrel and stink to high heaven, almost like electrical wiring burning...The paper towel squares do work to hold the powder load against the primer and still allow expansion and do seem to tighten up shot groups...

[100percent]

I think powder barriers are a bit silly. The paper, grain, or fluff isn't that stable and powder granules move around eventually moving out of position getting on the wrong side of the tracks so to speak. I think it is best to find a powder that fills the case or something that is relatively impervious to position.

Do it if you must but I have found other solutions that work better for me.

[MW surveyor]

Filling the case on a target load 38 spl, I'd probably use something like Trail Boss. But I don't want to have a whole bunch of powders so I now use Bullseye or HP 38. These powders are not postion sensitive and can use the same powder in 9 mm.

There are a whole bunch of target shooters that would disagree about the use of powder barriers. However, to each his own.

[mad1ben2]

well thread has changed a bit from what I'd originally posted.. but that's all good.

I'll probably start another thread once I get going, but my press came in today!!! I'm starting with 40 cal and hope to work in 9mm, 45, and 380. I got a Lee LoadMaster progresive press. I've picked up some Precision Delta 180 gr FMJ bullets, Bullseye and Clays powder, primers, and a tumbler with pet store walnut bits.

Gotta go out of town for a few days but will get it going this weekend.. tumbling brass while I get the press set up (if the tumbler gets here by then). Hopefully by then the new slide stop for my new T40 will get here and I'll get to have some fun!

Thx,
Scott

[mad1ben2]

Took a bit of tweeking during press setup, but loaded about 400 rounds of .40 this weekend... all in all a great success.

For the record, 20+ year old powder and primers worked without a hitch! Bullseye, 2400, CCI 500 and 550 primers... and in mild .40 loads I could tell no difference between the regular and magnum primers... just like my reloading manual said.. (Bawanna, this was something you said you were wondering about).

I can highly recommend the Clays powder (not Universal Clays or International Clays... just Clays) for soft shooting target loads... this stuff tamed the 40 down to 9mm recoil and cycled the P40 and MK40 very reliably.

The Bullseye was very noticeably snappier than the Clays and somewhat snappier than typical range ammo (IMHO).

All loads were at starting powder charges and then 1 step up (using Lee Autodisk setup). I'd quote the grains but hate to state something wrong... I know min OAL was 1.125.