Am I loading the magazine right?

[Pointedstick]

I just came home with a CW9. Love it so far, and I'm blown away by the design. Fits my hand like a glove. I plan to shoot it tomorrow for the first time, but I noticed something vaguely worrying; when I load the magazine, the last few rounds seem not to lay flat on top of the ones below them. Instead, the rim of the top round will sort of notch into the groove in the other cartridge that the extractor grabs. When I fully load the 7-round magazine, I can wiggle the top round up and down a bit, and the one below it is almost pointing downwards.

Here's how it looks with only three rounds loaded:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5254/5399335225_e3cb986b23.jpg


And now with all 7:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5133/5399937096_6d053a7ef2.jpg


Am I loading the magazines wrong? Is this a design flaw? Or am I just worrying over nothing?

[ripley16]

That's normal. the top round rests at a slightly different angle.

[2edgesword]

That's normal. the top round rests at a slightly different angle.

I am new to Kahr (just got my first, CW45 last week) and also noticed the tip up orientation of the last round which is not typical of the other semi-autos I've owned. But the firearms has functioned flawlessly with the only hiccup being a bad primer in 1 out of 150 rounds I've sent down range with it (examination of the case confirmed it was not a light strike).

As you mentioned, it fits like a glove in my hand and the workmanship/finish is excellent. Enjoy!

[tconroy]

I just came home with a CW9. Love it so far, and I'm blown away by the design. Fits my hand like a glove. I plan to shoot it tomorrow for the first time, but I noticed something vaguely worrying; when I load the magazine, the last few rounds seem not to lay flat on top of the ones below them. Instead, the rim of the top round will sort of notch into the groove in the other cartridge that the extractor grabs. When I fully load the 7-round magazine, I can wiggle the top round up and down a bit, and the one below it is almost pointing downwards.

Here's how it looks with only three rounds loaded:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5254/5399335225_e3cb986b23.jpg


And now with all 7:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5133/5399937096_6d053a7ef2.jpg


Am I loading the magazines wrong? Is this a design flaw? Or am I just worrying over nothing?
I just bought one today myself!!! Already took it apart and cleaned it twice. Cant wait to go shoot it tomorrow. Check back tomorrow and lets see how we compare these after the range session.

[Pointedstick]

I just bought one today myself!!! Already took it apart and cleaned it twice. Cant wait to go shoot it tomorrow. Check back tomorrow and lets see how we compare these after the range session.

I know, right? These things just exude quality. I plan to put a couple hundred downrange tomorrow (made sure to do everything in the "proper prep of a new Kahr" thread, naturally!).

[firemedic2506]

normal, just an FYI, if you carry and you carry a spare save yourself some headach and make sure the mag holder you get is angled at the bottom rather than flat. if the mag carrier is flat and your mag gets pushed all the way down that top round may "level out" and it could jam, happened to me at the range

[jackblack73]

As others said, it's normal. In fact, it seems to be a well designed mag to me. I believe the 9mm is a tapered round. Which would mean that when you stack them in a mag the more rounds you put in the more the tip would point down. That would obviously be detrimental to proper feeding. So the fact that the top round manages to point higher seems like a good design to me.

[mr surveyor]

As others said, it's normal. In fact, it seems to be a well designed mag to me. I believe the 9mm is a tapered round. Which would mean that when you stack them in a mag the more rounds you put in the more the tip would point down. That would obviously be detrimental to proper feeding. So the fact that the top round manages to point higher seems like a good design to me.


Exactly! To prove it to yourself just lay about a dozen or so 9mm rounds side be side on the table and you will see them create an arc. There is a fine art to creating a magazine, spring and follower combination that eliminates this issue. I don't know how much of a problem it has been with Kahr in general, but it does exist.


surv

[Pointedstick]

Exactly! To prove it to yourself just lay about a dozen or so 9mm rounds side be side on the table and you will see them create an arc. There is a fine art to creating a magazine, spring and follower combination that eliminates this issue. I don't know how much of a problem it has been with Kahr in general, but it does exist.


surv

Yeah, I was curious to know how other companies do it. This is my first 9mm pistol so I'm new to the design challenges imposed by the cartridge. Especially for those big double stack magazines, it must be rough.

[MW surveyor]

One of the differences is in the design of the follower. My CZ 18 round mag follower has a higher angled follower.

[jocko]

If the magazine funtions properly, forget what we think it should look like. Just shoot it like you stole it and enjoy the gun. Just make sure your rounds are not out of spec. Only takes one round out of spec to mess up a magazines function.

For me personally, I don't pay alot of attention to it at the range as I shoot it for fun, so I don;'t prepare as good as I should sometimes But for my carry/defense round, I funtion every round to be sure it loads in the magazine OK. I don't rack each round in the gun, just function check the rounds in the magazine to see that one is not causing a hang up.

[tconroy]

If the magazine funtions properly, forget what we think it should look like. Just shoot it like you stole it and enjoy the gun. Just make sure your rounds are not out of spec. Only takes one round out of spec to mess up a magazines function.

For me personally, I don't pay alot of attention to it at the range as I shoot it for fun, so I don;'t prepare as good as I should sometimes But for my carry/defense round, I funtion every round to be sure it loads in the magazine OK. I don't rack each round in the gun, just function check the rounds in the magazine to see that one is not causing a hang up.
Jocko, Do you know how many rounds the flush plate mag holds??? Do you loose a couple due to the shortness of the mag??? I looked on the Kahr web sight but could not find a flushplate for the CW9 listed. It is early and Im on my second cup of coffee, that could lead to my overlooking it.:typing:

[ripley16]

The 9mm flat plate kit fits all 9mm mag tubes. You don't loose any capacity, you just loose the finger rest.

Look here
http://www.kahr.com/Magazines/Kahr-Steel-Magazine-Base-Kit-9-mm-and-40-SandW.asp

[jocko]

My PM9 flush hold 6 rounds. U can go to the kahr stie and pull up their magazines and it will give you the round count per magazine size. My extened PM9 gives me 7 rounds. I just don't like it, looks like hell and I carry witht he flush plate magazine, so I practice that way.. riplye 16 is right..

[mr surveyor]

One of the differences is in the design of the follower. My CZ 18 round mag follower has a higher angled follower.



That is probably the case with a lot of 9mm pistols, but I would bet the main reason Kahr does not use the steeper angle on the follower/feed lips is due to the Kahr pistols having a much lower bore axis, thus not needing the steep angle for feeding. Actually the steeper angle on a "fixed follower" (as in rigid moulded rather than hinged) wouldn't really solve much. From a bone head land surveyor's graphic/mathmatical perspective, it may make the top round or two look better in the magazine, firmly held against the feed lips, then create a funnel problem with the last round or two. I still thing a hinged follower similar to the McCormic Shooting Star mags would remedy the loose rounds. This would most likely require the magazine to be made a few millimeters larger in the dimension of cartridge base to bullet nose to allow for the natural curve caused by stacking the tapered rounds.

Personally I have never had a feed problem with my Kahr mags (or any problem whatsoever with my CW9), and don't worry about the fact that the top round will wobble if I force it. Would I like to see a design that lets the 9mm rounds "curve" in the magazine... sure, but I don't see it as a serious problem.

surv

surv

[MW surveyor]

If you are not afraid to do a modification to the existing mag.....You can sand, grind, file or whatever the finger "hook" off. This is a free mod and I think it will look better than the flat plate as it fills in the gap between the mag base and the bottom of the grip. I removed the small lip but left the curved/tapered part. Now my pinkey finger does not feel squished. :) YMMV

[MW surveyor]

mr surveyor - don't forget the "off centered" feed ramp!

[mr surveyor]

mr surveyor - don't forget the "off centered" feed ramp!

You know what, MWS... that may just be a very good reason for Kahr to have the "loosness". It just might make the offset feed ramp a total disaster with a tight magazine (loaded to capacity). The last 3-4 rounds aren't under as much spring tension so they apparantly are easier to strip off the stack and guide onto the offset ramp. A really tight top round might not fare so well.

I've been trying to reason this design thing out since I bought my CW9 a year and a half ago. Mine ain't broke, so it don't need fixin' ... I just like to understand how/why things are made the way they are, particularly when they are different than the norm.


surv

[jocko]

every gun is different. I would not compare a cz mag follower to a kahr follower. One is double stack, one is single. Kahrs have offset feed ramp to allow trigger system to be along side the barrel, creating a lower bore axis... I realize some don't want that top round being so loosey goosey expecially for pocket carry but it is what it is. You can Fokk with it and maybe help it but u can also fokk with it and really screw it up.

Indeed if it ain't broke, don't fix it.. I don't try to question why my Pm9 goes bang every time , I would question why it doesn't..

[tconroy]

I posted a range report on another thread but this is where I said I would do it do to somebody else gettting a new CW. I can only say one thing....AWSOME!!!! This gun performed flawlessly.Cleaned per Jocko's info and stripped it down in less than 30 seconds the 2nd time doing it. The groups were not super tight, withing 5" at 50ft. with several in the 3" circle but good enough for just putting in my hand for the first time. We will have to get use to each other and then become one. The groups will tighten up. If I could have quit shaking with adrenalin I could have done better. I was excited about shooting it. Well over the break-in and not the slightest bit of a problem! This gun has earned the seal of approval for being carried with confidence knowing that it will perform without fail. It will be my EDC from now on.:D

[Pointedstick]

I posted a range report on another thread but this is where I said I would do it do to somebody else gettting a new CW. I can only say one thing....AWSOME!!!! This gun performed flawlessly.Cleaned per Jocko's info and stripped it down in less than 30 seconds the 2nd time doing it. The groups were not super tight, withing 5" at 50ft. with several in the 3" circle but good enough for just putting in my hand for the first time. We will have to get use to each other and then become one. The groups will tighten up. If I could have quit shaking with adrenalin I could have done better. I was excited about shooting it. Well over the break-in and not the slightest bit of a problem! This gun has earned the seal of approval for being carried with confidence knowing that it will perform without fail. It will be my EDC from now on.:D

Wish I could offer my own range report but there was an emergency at work and the range was closed by the time it settled down. :( From dry firing though, I've got a big WOW on the trigger. I swear, this thing is amazing. I can do the whole "balance a dime on the front sight" drill better than my single-action guns. Nice and easy to break down, too. Then again, after a Ruger Mark III, anything's easy to break down…

[jocko]

U know I have a Ruger MK11 and it has at leat 3500 round s through it and it is perfect and I have never taken it allthe way down to clean it . Never toolk the slide off. I just spray clean it with my 3M high pressure non cholorinated brake cleaner and reoil and shoot it like I stole it. I think I can spray clean everything needed with grips off and slide back etc and never take it down. Yes it is a real bit-h to put back together, for me anyhow.

[jlottmc]

Those Ruger 22's take a bit of getting used too, but they aren't that hard to break down. That being said, I seldom take my 50'th anniversary edition apart.

[tconroy]

I had a mark III also. Sold it to my brother so I could have more money to buy a motorcycle. Dang, if i would have just waited a few more weeks:( At least it is still in the family