Reassembly - Inserting Recoil Spring & Guide Rod

[2edgesword]

O.k., I've disassembled and assembled my CW45 twice for cleaning. The toughest part is reinserting the recoil spring and guide rod assembly. I'm getting it done but lining up the guide rod to insert through the hole in the slide is hit or miss. Any suggestions on getting it right the first time every time?

[jocko]

practice makes perfect..

[pappy42]

O.k., I've disassembled and assembled my CW45 twice for cleaning. The toughest part is reinserting the recoil spring and guide rod assembly. I'm getting it done but lining up the guide rod to insert through the hole in the slide is hit or miss. Any suggestions on getting it right the first time every time?

Hold the slide muzzle toward you and position the guide rod/spring assembly with the spring coil end facing at the 1 o'clock position. Goes in easier for me on my PM45.

[2edgesword]

After spending nearly half an hour trying to get the rod and spring assembly inserted my thumbs were exhausted and I had to leave to take my granddaughter to dinner for her birthday. I get back thinking I cannot be the only one that has this much trouble getting this done.

After moan about the engineering folks at Kahr that came up with this design (inserting the assembly in a Glock takes all of 2 seconds). It should not take thumbs of steel or "practice" to get what should be a simple operation completed. After a few minutes of inserting the rod without the spring from different directions I determine the tolerance with respect to the proper angle to make the insertion isn't that severe, so the major issue is doing it while dealing with the spring tension and doing the necessary manipulating to get the rod through the hole.

So the solution, repeated three times and taking all of 3 seconds to get it accomplished, was to use the edge of a book shelf to brace the base of the rod allowing two hands on the slide to make the minor movements side to side to find the hole. No effort, no thumb fatigue and the leverage of holding the slide with two hands versus pushing the rod under spring tension with thumb made finding the hole a piece of cake.

[jocko]

nice work, now if u can just figure out how to carry that book shelf with you in case u have to take that gun down in the field!!!!!

[2edgesword]

nice work, now if u can just figure out how to carry that book shelf with you in case u have to take that gun down in the field!!!!!

This would be one reason the CW45 would NOT be my choice for a carry firearm if I knew I would be in the field for an extended stay where field stripping was required. I would also guess that no military organization or law enforcement agency (where field stripping of a firearm would be seen as an important consideration) would chose this design of Kahr for a service firearm.

I'm not a master mechanic by any means but I've repaired everything from computers, to refrigeration systems to air compressors. I also did my time in the military and trained field stripping the M-16, so I have a little idea of what the military considers an assembly process that the average individual can learn and become proficient with when being able to perform under pressure is required to save your life. The process of assembling the spring, rod assembly on the CW45 is a flawed piece of engineering forethought IMHO.

On the other hand it doesn't necessary require a "book shelf". Any secure object with an edge that allows you position the rod flush against it and the slide beside it will do if you don't have a convenient book shelf.

[gb6491]

This would be one reason the CW45 would NOT be my choice for a carry firearm if I knew I would be in the field for an extended stay where field stripping was required. I would also guess that no military organization or law enforcement agency (where field stripping of a firearm would be seen as an important consideration) would chose this design of Kahr for a service firearm.

I'm not a master mechanic by any means but I've repaired everything from computers, to refrigeration systems to air compressors. I also did my time in the military and trained field stripping the M-16, so I have a little idea of what the military considers an assembly process that the average individual can learn and become proficient with when being able to perform under pressure is required to save your life. The process of assembling the spring, rod assembly on the CW45 is a flawed piece of engineering forethought IMHO.

On the other hand it doesn't necessary require a "book shelf". Any secure object with an edge that allows you position the rod flush against it and the slide beside it will do if you don't have a convenient book shelf.
Two current US service pistols, the M9 and M11, utilize the same type of non-captive, recoil spring and guide rod system. I have some "hands on" time with the M9 and own/have owned several SIG pistols (the M11 is a SIG P228). I didn't/don't find the recoil spring and guide rod overly difficult to install in these pistols. That's been my exact experience with the CW 45 as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAuHn7dyuWI
As in many things,YMMV:yo:
Regards,
Greg

[MW surveyor]

gb6491 - I'm glad that you posted the video. That's the same way I install my guide rod and spring on my CW9. A picture may be a 1000 words but videos have to get up into the 100,000s.

[ripley16]

To hold the slide; I use the left hand as a backstop. I fold my ringfinger under the hand and up tight to the muzzle, the middle joint up tight to the barrel muzzle.

My thumb and middle finger hold the slide steady, just on the bottom of the rails.

As I push the rod into the muzzle end, I use my lefthand thumb and index finger as guides, preventing the spring from warping.

To push the guide rod; I use a similar hold on the assembly... my righthand middle finger is the backstop/pusher, and my thumb and index finger to hold and also push. I keep the whole spring assembly just over the link, even sliding along the bottom, until the tip of the rod enters the muzzle end. Then I just push the rod forward some more and down, as my righthand middle finger slides off and the assembly is captured.

Basically, I hold and push with two fingers and use the others to guide and keep everything straight.

Everyone probably has their own techniques. This one works for me.

As Jocko said, "practice makes perfect"

[2edgesword]

I got enough "practice" during that half hour session yesterday to last a lifetime, in addition to a sore and slightly bruised thumb. I don't know what the tolerance on the rod versus hole are but getting the rod through the hole while overcoming the spring tension using just my hands or even the slide braced against my body is not an easy task.

gb6491

The issue goes beyond just the basic design but rather the design, tolerance between the rod and hole, the angle of insertion required to make the insertion, shape of the breech end of the barrel and the spring tension. I have no problem getting the spring compressed without bending it but that last 1/16" push at just the right angle to get the tip of the rod started in the hole is very tight. If there 1/32" clearance (rod versus inside hole diameter) that clearance is even less given the rod is approaching the hole at an angle.

Actually, if the end of the rod was slightly rounded at that end it would make the job much easier.

[gb6491]

gb6491 - I'm glad that you posted the video. That's the same way I install my guide rod and spring on my CW9. A picture may be a 1000 words but videos have to get up into the 100,000s.
Do you have to reach around a camera tripod as I did?:D.......I know what you mean, but it still gave me a chuckle; thanks!:)

I got enough "practice" during that half hour session yesterday to last a lifetime, in addition to a sore and slightly bruised thumb. I don't know what the tolerance on the rod versus hole are but getting the rod through the hole while overcoming the spring tension using just my hands or even the slide braced against my body is not an easy task.

gb6491

The issue goes beyond just the basic design but rather the design, tolerance between the rod and hole, the angle of insertion required to make the insertion, shape of the breech end of the barrel and the spring tension. I have no problem getting the spring compressed without bending it but that last 1/16" push at just the right angle to get the tip of the rod started in the hole is very tight. If there 1/32" clearance (rod versus inside hole diameter) that clearance is even less given the rod is approaching the hole at an angle.

Actually, if the end of the rod was slightly rounded at that end it would make the job much easier.
Sorry friend, inclusive of "design, tolerance between the rod and hole, the angle of insertion required to make the insertion, shape of the breech end of the barrel and the spring tension" I'm just not having any issues inserting the guide rod and spring into a CW 45.
However, as you mention that a slightly rounded end would make the job much easier, I wonder if there is an issue with your guide rod.
Mine has the end beveled, perhaps yours isn't:
http://i54.tinypic.com/1yr1ic.jpg
Regards,
Greg

[TominCA]

I'm on my second P380 - both had (have) serious function problems. I noticed that the second P380 has a longer outer recoil spring - so long it really doesn't fit well - the first P380 had a shorter spring. The problem with the P380's is the return to battery - it often doesn't make it (many eamples of this in this forum) so I think they beefed up the outer spring by making it longer - now you really have to play with it to get it in. I've owned probably 40 semi auto pistols over the years - Never had function problems this bad.

It could be they did this on your model also - the inner spring is shorter and also very stiff and I think the outer spring is not just recoil absprbtion - it also gives the slide the last little bit of push into battery. Call Kahr - or better yet complain to your dealer - if the dealers get involved it will help Kahr start paying attention to their pistols.

[jocko]

tominCA. Have u counted the old recoil spring (outter) compared to this new one to see if indeed they added coils This would tall us alot. I have been told they changted the inner spring but not the outter spring. All springs take a set, but coil count would be very important.

[CJB]

On the PM45, my only point of reference, I agree it could have been designed better, but its not a bad design. Putting a slight dome on the end of the "button" at the end of the shaft would have made things easier, but its not an impossible task.

On the CW... cant say, never tried it.

[TominCA]

It's a good idea! but unfortunately the old spring is back to the factory so I can't count the coils on it - what I did notice is that the last coil of the outer spring actually tries to protrude through the hole in the slide way before the rear of the guide rod is in position and I have to rotate it out of the way - and then compress the spring by grabbing it in the middle to get the rod into position (one of those "need 3 hands" gun asembly things). I did not have to do anything like that with the first pistol. It also appeared to be quite a bit stiffer to work the slide on the second pistol. I left the slide locked back for about 12 hours - but it did not make a difference.

[2edgesword]

Do you have to reach around a camera tripod as I did?:D.......I know what you mean, but it still gave me a chuckle; thanks!:)

Sorry friend, inclusive of "design, tolerance between the rod and hole, the angle of insertion required to make the insertion, shape of the breech end of the barrel and the spring tension" I'm just not having any issues inserting the guide rod and spring into a CW 45.
However, as you mention that a slightly rounded end would make the job much easier, I wonder if there is an issue with your guide rod.
Mine has the end beveled, perhaps yours isn't:
http://i54.tinypic.com/1yr1ic.jpg
Regards,
Greg

Greg

I think you have identified the problem. The end of my guide rod has NO bevel whatsoever which would explain why if the rod is not aligned just so it won't start through the hole in the slide.

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt21/OGMustang2008/GuideRod1.jpg

It appears that a finishing step (adding the bevel) may have been missed.

[Bawanna]

Maybe order you up a Steve Bedair stainless guide rod. Good guy, good guide rod and it looks wicked cool too. I'm nearly certain it has that bevel too, at least mine did.

[2edgesword]

I did a little more searching on the web a found others with the contrasting guide rods with insertion difficulties...

Without bevel
http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w330/ktayl0r/P1020602.jpg

With bevel
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/ripley16/kahrrodandspring.jpg