9mm Question, purely a matter of curiosity

[Goffman]

Hey All,

Not trying to start a heated debate or anything like that. I recognize that everyone has his/her favorite defensive ammunition. ;) However, I'm curious how many folks elect to carry standard pressure 115 grain or 124 grain 9mm ammunition, particularly in a pistol of lower weight (e.g., PM9). Anyone? If so, may I ask your reasoning about it?

By the way, I'm one of those folks who carries standard pressure ammunition.

P.S. I'm sure that some of your decision-making about this question involves the length of the barrel of your pistol(s) and the weight of your pistol(s). So, information about your particular context would be helpful.

[ZenthaneX]

I'm currently deciding on what ammo to run for self defense. I've had 2 people tell me two different things. One says i should run 124gr +p the other says i should use 147gr standard. I guess if anyone here has any opinions one way or the other i would appreciate the input as well.

[Goffman]

I'm currently deciding on what ammo to run for self defense. I've had 2 people tell me two different things. One says i should run 124gr +p the other says i should use 147gr standard. I guess if anyone here has any opinions one way or the other i would appreciate the input as well.

I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only person who is interested in this question. :)

[wyntrout]

The Kahrs are short barreled and I want the extra oomph... Speer 124-gr. Gold Dots+P, Short Barrel. I use standard pressure 230-grain Bonded Remington Golden Sabers in the .45's 'cause they pack enough foot-pounds.
I have +P Buffalo Bore for the P380... Bonded JHP and FMJ Flat Point for "winter-weight" penetration. I still have standard Ranger T's in it now, though.
Wynn:)

[Indigo]

I have Remington GS 147. If bigger is better in .45 (230) then there's no reason not to apply same principal in 9mm. Just aim for the neck.

[jocko]

#1 has to be TOTAL RELIABILITY, after that any of the rounds you have on the survey list IMO is perfect. If there was the PERFECT round, then there would be no others made but we know that is not true so I never fault what one carrys as again if he had to use the gun which 99.995% never have to do, any round that goes bang is better than the perfect round that maybe won't.

Nice survey and your gonna get more reasons why one carrys this than carter has liver pills, and no theory is a bad theory on what rond to carry. Gotta give these American ammo makes alot of credit, they do give us alot of great choices...

I willbe very surprised if 124 +p doesnt take 1st choice.

[rholmes69]

Magtech Guardian Gold 115 Gr +P JHP. Yielded the best back yard expansion tests of the several defense rounds I tried.

[ripley16]

I've never been loyal to a particular brand because there are so many excellent choices available, and they frankly all do pretty much the same thing. The qualities I look for in the several brands of carry ammo I use are more important to me.
* It has to function in my CCW.
* I like a nickled case, like brass, a naturally lubricous metal.
* A well designed bullet. Most top quality rounds have a good bullet.
* Low flash powder.
* Readily available.
* I'm able to shoot it accurately and smoothly. Here, some rounds shine, some drop out of contention.

Through thousands of test rounds, I've found a few that fit my needs, and eliminated some that just don't work for me. I voted for the ever popular 124gr. +P, but standard pressure is OK with me too. By and large most Hornady, Winchester and Speer ammo suits me. MagTech, Corbon and Federal, especially HyraShok, do not.

For me, being reliable and being able to shoot well, are the most important factors in choosing a carry round.

[redjak]

Since my Kahr CW9 is still new to me, I am carrying 115 gr standard velocity. It is accurate in my hands, and reliable. Once I get more used to the CW9, I may step up the velocity or use a heavier bullet.

[joshh]

i carry my pm9 w/ the 147gr winchesters at the recommendation of a winchester rep and a leo i know who is very knowledgeable about firearms. they both said the 147gr performs best in a short pistol. i also have done some homemade ballistics tests and found the 147gr wins were best for my pm9. at the range i practice with the 115gr federals and dont notice any shot placement or significant recoil differences from the 147gr.

[Chuck54]

If my old memory serves me correctly???

I think a long time ago I read that the 9mm's original weight was developed at around 124 grain and the 45 was developed at around 200 or 230 grain.

That's why I stick to the 124;s in 9mm and 230's in 45 of course I like the modern bullet design ie: Gold Dot, HST or RangerT.

[joshh]

think you are right about the 124gr but if you shoot a pm9 try both the 124gr & the 147gr in some close (15') tests into clay or water jugs. we used a water jug with denim in front and clay behind it. with the shorter barrel pistol the 147gr definitely seemed to hit harder and expand better.

[deadhead1971]

I have shot and carried a gaggle of ammo: fmj of various brands, winchester personal defense hp 147, powr' ball 100 +p hp, Federal 124 hydra shok, speer gold dots +p 124 hp, and speer gold dots 124 hp.

I have switched to speer gold dots 124 hp standard pressure.

1) I have a crimson trace, and that is why I carry what I do. Mine sometimes gets knocked out of alignment (lose zero), so I use the lower recoil ammo--standard pressure.
2) I need clean burning powder to keep the laser lens clean. Shooting 3 or 4 Pow'r ball rounds dirtied up the laser lens and rendered it barely visible.
3) At close range, I still think +P will over-penetrate
4) Speer gold dots are said to shoot through glass ok and not come all apart

[Chuck54]

Just for grins try some Corbon 90 grain +P

They sound and feel different. I olny had 20 rounds and shot them out of a T9.....very accurate.

[jocko]

to lite for me, I can get that much bullet weight out of my P380..

[Moby Clarke]

I carry an HK P7 PSP and since it was designed around NATO Spec ammo, I carry +p 124 grn rounds. 147 grns is not recommended for the P7 and since my MK9 is the pack up, I carry the same stuff in it. Obviously, I ran about 150 rounds of carry ammo through both to ensure reliability.

[cgo99]

Speer Gold Dot 115 standard, only because I seem to be more accurate with it and I rather be more accurate with than not hit with bigger bullet.
I'm sure is different for other folk.

[jocko]

that P7 is a really nice peace..

[ripley16]

that P7 is a really nice peace..
Yes it is, but I've never seen any prohibition from HK concerning the use of 147gr ammo. The only prohibition I've seen is against light bullets less than 100 gr.:confused: Most of the LE agencies that used the P7 carried the heavier rounds. Moby, do you have a source from HK concerning the 147gr ammo?

[aray]

For now I'm going with the 124 grain standard pressure. +P, for me, has more recoil on my CW9 and it takes me much longer to reacquire my front sights on the target. I'd rather make more holes in a tight group, than bigger holes but fewer of them and in a wider spread.

I'm still experimenting with various brands. Besides variations in recoil like above, I'm testing them for things like size of the flash (bad for night vision), etc.

[Chuck54]

When our agency issued P7M8s we were issued 115 grain SilverTips

I like my T9 better than the P7M8, I also like 124 Gold Dots for my carry ammo standard or +P which ever I can get.

[Goffman]

I'm surprised that the standard pressure round is coming out as close as it is to the +P in the poll at the top of this page.

[joshh]

When we redesigned the Ranger T Series of ammunition we widened the velocity window under which the round would expand to allow for the slower velocities that shorter than standard barrels produce. What this means is that if you own a standard or sub compact pistol the round should have adequate expansion. In 9mm I would recommend the 147 grain bullet as it loses a lower velocity percentage than the faster lighter bullet in shorter than normal barrels. This is because the bullet has more dwell time in the bore and has a greater opportunity to burn the powder before the bullet exits the bore. Powder that is burned outside the bore does nothing for velocity. The lighter faster bullets generally have more powder to burn and since the lighter faster bullets have less time in the bore they are not efficient burners of powder in the shorter barrels.

We increased the velocity window under which the round would expand by increasing the size of the hollowpoint, tweaking the jacket thickness and the depth of the cuts on the inside of the jacket petal segments.

Sincerely,

Paul Nowak
Senior Technical Specialist
Winchester Law Enforcement Ammunition

[deadhead1971]

Thanks.

[Goffman]

Just one more reviving of this thread to see if we can get a few more responses to the poll at the top of the page. Thanks.

[100percent]

I like 95 gr FMJ. They really have a lot of sting to them.

[mr surveyor]

I tend to like the 124 gr jhp's, either standard or +p... they've make nice accurate holes with every 9mm firearm I've owned. Doesn't really matter to me whether it's 115's, 124's or 147's, as long as the gun will function properly, reliably and consistantly with them. Almost all of the good quality SD ammo (except for the gimmic stuff and special use stuff) should handle the needs for self defense.

surv

[HadEmAll]

127 grain Winchester +P+ in my long barrels

115 grain Winchester and Speer +P+ in my shorter barrels

[jocko]

considering kahr s ay no +P+ in their guns, there must be a reason for that..

[HadEmAll]

considering kahr s ay no +P+ in their guns, there must be a reason for that..

My Kahr's are all .40. I shoot the +P+ in different models of Berettas and one Sig.

[ltxi]

PM9....standard pressure....124gr Federal HydraShok even though it's not today's theoretically/technically best. Reasons....it feeds dead stone reliably and I shoot it very well. I also happen to have a very large supply but that's because of....

[Steve-$]

My first choice is:

Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 9mm Luger +P 124 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point.

And my second is:

Remington Golden Saber 9mm Luger +P 124 Grain Brass Jacketed Hollow Point.

Have never had a FTF in my K9 Elite with either one of them.

:)