Manually Racking The First Round

[Old Salt]

I’m new to Kahr pistols but cannot understand what the big deal is about manually racking the first round into the chamber. If it’s done correctly there should be no issue. Pull the slide all the way to the rear then let go of the slide. The forward speed and force of the slide should be the same as using the slide release. I have both the CW40 and PM9 and have not had any problems. Yes there could be an issue if you ride the slide as you would with many other auto’s. Just an old man’s observation. :confused:

[MW surveyor]

I've had both success and failure when manually racking the first round. Not sure if I was riding the slide or not. I'll manually rack at the range now but not after loading it up at home after cleaning. First shot at range not firing is not a big deal, first shot in a "holy sh*T" situation is.

[AFVet]

If you carry with one in the chamber, the slide racking, while annoying at times, isn't an issue at all. :p

[tconroy]

If you carry with one in the chamber, the slide racking, while annoying at times, isn't an issue at all. :p
exactly!! Who is gonna remember to rack the slide in a situation. Are you gonna have both hands and arms to do so?? You will also be showing your gun for maybe 3 seconds before even pointing it. The racking (step 1) should be done before you leave the house. Your gonna need those 3 seconds in a situation. I thought I was the only one up on a Saturday morning. Everybody else must have to go to work too!:)

[jocko]

old salt, ur partially right. but kahrs are harder to manually rack than my G19 is by 5 to one. When I got my P380 at first I could not manually rack that slide with any reliability what so ever. And i think I know how to manually rack, but it was evident that the gun and I did not see eye to eye. Now after over 1200 rounds the gun and I can manually rack with ease. I do think the gun smoothed out alot itself also and I think I also got better at doing it. My PM9 at first was difficult for me but nothing like my P380 was. I could manually rack my lcp and kel tecs with ease. One should at least practice the tap, rack and bang drill , but if one carrys with one in the pipe, he should be Ok as after that the gun will lock open anyhow. No doubt improper racking on kahrs is due to riding the slide as I think kahrs are tight and they are not as forgiving as like my g19 is.

I think that is why kahr stresses in the manual to use the slide lock lever to load that first round. same velocity every time and if it won't load by using the slide lock lever chances are very good hand racking will be no better...

Factory G19 springs are 18#, Factory PM9 spirngs are 18#is there a difference in hand racking either gun. ABSOLUTELY. the glocks are so so much easier..

[Old Salt]

If you carry with one in the chamber, the slide racking, while annoying at times, isn't an issue at all. :p

You are 100% correct, as I always carry +1. For carry, I insert a loaded magazine, rack the slide, remove magazine and replace the round. At the range I insert a loaded magazine, rack the slide and begin shooting. And again you are corret, it's no issue.

[tconroy]

And again you are corret, it's no issue. The only issue would be if you did not!!. I think everyone who carries should also take the advanced CCW classes to learn more about the tactical side. What to do in a situation if confronted etc,etc.

[ripley16]

If it’s done correctly there should be no issue.
I agree, but it contains the big "IF" factor. Some folks miss on the issue. The small size of the gun and the heavy springs make normal racking more difficult for a portion of users IMHO. Otherwise... the gun functions fine so long as it's done properly.

[jfrey]

I have racked the slide and loaded my CW9 as per Kahr directions. I get probably 75 to 80 % rate on the racking method and 100% on the kahr method. The difference is that if the first round isn't solidly up against the mag lips, the round will nose dive and hang up the process. Take your mag out and reinsert it a couple of times and see what happens.
I don't know what the big deal is with the kahr method is in the first place. I load my 1911 like that all the time and it is never an issue.

The first time you are in a bind and need your pistol, when you rack it and it hangs up, you'll never use that method again! To each his own.

[mr surveyor]

I think some here may be missing a very important point on reason for needing the "sling shot" method. If for some reason you experience a malfunction during live fire... dud round, hard primer, weak round causing stovepipe, etc.... you will not want to spend the extra time doing the "Kahr Method". Clearing malfunctions during a possible active shooting scenerio is by far the most prominant "anti-Kahr" issue you'll find on the internet. Just the fact that Kahr makes it clear in the owner's manual that their way is the best way to charge their weapons tends to add fuel to the anti-Kahr fire. Fortunately, I have never had a problem charging my CW9 the same as I do every other semi-auto pistol. In a real situation, under ideal conditions of perfect ammunition and no other possible malfunctions, having the gun properly loaded for carry is a must to begin with.... then, if the first magazine runs dry and you reach slide lock, the "Kahr method would be most preferable to execute. I never trust "Mr. Murphy" to stay out of the details though.


surv

[joshh]

for carry: with the slide locked back i drop a round into chamber then release the slide by racking, then insert a fully loaded mag. never have had an issue and use this method at the range too.
anyone else notice when you slowly un-chamber an unfired round without a mag the round drops down the mag chute? i like that better than having it flip out across the room.

[cgo99]

You are 100% correct, as I always carry +1. For carry, I insert a loaded magazine, rack the slide, remove magazine and replace the round. At the range I insert a loaded magazine, rack the slide and begin shooting. And again you are corret, it's no issue.


If you carry with one in the chamber, the slide racking, while annoying at times, isn't an issue at all. :p

I agree, never understood why people make a big deal about this is not like you need to rack the slide often when you carry one in the chamber.

[wyntrout]

At the range, if you drop the mag and fire a round, the shell falls down the magazine well, too... and if you aren't thinking and catch it, you won't hold it long... HOT!

A few times I had malfunctions with my PM45... failure to go fully into battery. I dropped the mag and got the round chambered and then fired it. The first time I felt the shell fall through the mag well and caught it, but quickly let it go as it's very hot. The next time I started to catch it, but remembered and let it go.
To clear loaded rounds, I turn the gun on its side to let gravity help it out the ejection port. I do that when I'm cycling snap caps, too. Otherwise, you can wind up with the round staying in the gun and jamming.

Wynn:)

[mr surveyor]

for carry: with the slide locked back i drop a round into chamber then release the slide by racking, then insert a fully loaded mag. never have had an issue and use this method at the range too.
anyone else notice when you slowly un-chamber an unfired round without a mag the round drops down the mag chute? i like that better than having it flip out across the room.


forcing the extractor over a chambered round is asking for extractor problems in the future. The rounds being chambered from the magazine slide vertically up the breach face, sliding into the extractor via the casing groove. Forcing the extractor to bend outwards (and also damaging the brass rim of the casing) will eventually lead to unwanted problems.

You might consider loading from the top of the magazine and then topping it off with the top round.

Just a suggestion:)


surv

[jocko]

what surv stated is definitely the rule of the day. Ur only asking for issues the other way. One sure never reads about thsi method as being the way to go. Must be a reason for that..

[MW surveyor]

+2 about loading from the magazine.

[wyntrout]

The manual definitely says not to chamber a round like that. It will damage the extractor. Only load from a magazine. Top off the magazine and make sure the rounds are to the rear, especially in the 9mm's. When you chamber a round, the next round is pulled forward and can dive when it's cycled forward. You get at least two good shots... maybe.

Wynn:)

[Old Salt]

+3 loading from the magazine.

[WMD]

I agree, never understood why people make a big deal about this is not like you need to rack the slide often when you carry one in the chamber.

Being an ex gun dealer, you will be surprised at how many people carry a Kahr pistol (or any other pistol) with an empty chamber. Why would anyone ever do such a thing is beyond me. I can only surmise they do not have very much knowledge of guns (certainly no knowledge of the Kahr pistol) or have had any tactical training. I spoke to a guy once about this and could not convince him that he was putting himself at risk by carrying with an empty chamber. I think I posted a thread on this a while back getting folks opinions about this. Carrying a gun without a round in the chamber is like going to a gunfight with a knife! :D

[tconroy]

For the beginner who just purchased the Kahr I would want to do it per the manual but yes you should TRY and get use to the feel of racking the slide that way you will no what it takes to do it properly. To each his own. Whatever feels best to you do it.:D

[CPO15]

WMD: could it be that folks like to rack the slide when danger presents itself like they see the gunmen do in TV and movies?

[WMD]

Hand racking a Kahr pistol is an issue. I spoke with a guy at Kahr about this a while back and was told the following:

"When you design a small packaged lightweight pistol in a reasonably large caliber, the "rules" significantly change. One of them is, you need strong springs to ensure the slide (having diminushed weight due to smaller size) cycles properly. As a result of strong springs,2 things occur.

1 - Most people cannot pull the Kahr slide back far enough (although they think they can). Hence not enough velocity to feed the round.

2 - Most folks when releasing the slide release will "ride" it just enough to slow velocity causing a jam. "

These conditions are especially prevelant when the gun is new and everything is pretty tight. I have experienced this issue myself.

Now.... all that being said, as my PM9 has aged, the springs have taken a set and I can pull the slide back, release, and successfully load a round into the chamber. My CCW ammo is high quality and I routinely recycle it. I have all the confidence in the world that when I pull the trigger it is going to go boom. I believe odds of my getting a "dud" are slim to none.

Just my .02 :)

[WMD]

WMD: could it be that folks like to rack the slide when danger presents itself like they see the gunmen do in TV and movies?

Good one! :D Yeah, I forgot about TV..., the main education tool of the modern pistoleers!

Personally! I think gun MFG's should mount the sights on the side of the slides so that when you hold the gun sideways, you can get a good sight picture! :D

[krmgator]

I noticed that when I pulled the slide back the first time I shot my CW9 this week and let it go that it didn't go all the way forward; I thought it was just me or a defective pistol. Glad to see this thread.

It certainly answered my question about keeping one in the chamber with a gun without a "safety".

I now feel better about locking the slide back, putting in a magazine and flicking that slide stop down. I love the sound of a slide slamming forward!

[tconroy]

Good one! :D Yeah, I forgot about TV..., the main education tool of the modern pistoleers!

Personally! I think gun MFG's should mount the sights on the side of the slides so that when you hold the gun sideways, you can get a good sight picture! :D
That is just like people who think it is ok to spin the revolver chambers and flip it closed with their wrists. NOT!!!! This can ruin a revolver quick and knock it out of time making it very dangerous to shoot but thery do it in the movies

[jocko]

That is just like people who think it is ok to spin the revolver chambers and flip it closed with their wrists. NOT!!!! This can ruin a revolver quick and knock it out of time making it very dangerous to shoot but thery do it in the movies


BUT BUT BUT the Lone ranger used to twirl his six shooter (0r was it his 12 shooter ) all the time. Are u telling me that he has been foolin me all these years?? I am gonna destroy my 1951 33rpm record of THE TRUE STORY OF THE LONG RANGER. I bet it is phooney to.

Now I don't care who wins the damn super bowl game today, I have lost my will to live. And to think I even named my Blue Porsche "silver" in memory of the LR. Tconroy, u just ruined my day and maybe even longer.

I will be consulting Bawanna about what to do, as he seems to be able to give NUT CASES somegood advice, based on his past experiences????
As far as tonto goes, I think now he was an early immigrint of the muslim extremist group to.. Kemo Sabi, my ass. Think about that, doesn't that sound Islamic to you???

[AFVet]

WMD: could it be that folks like to rack the slide when danger presents itself like they see the gunmen do in TV and movies?

I loved Magnum PI when I was a kid. I distinctly remember Tom Selleck whacking that mag into his gun because I thought it was so cool. ;)

[tconroy]

That is just like people who think it is ok to spin the revolver chambers and flip it closed with their wrists. NOT!!!! This can ruin a revolver quick and knock it out of time making it very dangerous to shoot but thery do it in the movies


BUT BUT BUT the Lone ranger used to twirl his six shooter (0r was it his 12 shooter ) all the time. Are u telling me that he has been foolin me all these years?? I am gonna destroy my 1951 33rpm record of THE TRUE STORY OF THE LONG RANGER. I bet it is phooney to.

Now I don't care who wins the damn super bowl game today, I have lost my will to live. And to think I even named my Blue Porsche "silver" in memory of the LR. Tconroy, u just ruined my day and maybe even longer.

I will be consulting Bawanna about what to do, as he seems to be able to give NUT CASES somegood advice, based on his past experiences????
As far as tonto goes, I think now he was an early immigrint of the muslim extremist group to.. Kemo Sabi, my ass. Think about that, doesn't that sound Islamic to you???
Sorry about that didnt mean to pop your bubble..........ahhhh has anybody ever spoke to you about the easter bunny or possibly the tooth fairy???........never mind:eek:

[jocko]

and I guess their phooney also???? oh my what next?

[earle8888]

Interesting discussion!!!
My training in racking the slide on an automatic vs thumbing the release is VERY straight forward--Hold the slide in one hand--THAT IS HOLD-- with the strong hand PUSH the frame through the weak or other hand COMPLETELY this should always work. If you push the pistole past the and through the slide-holding hand you won't ride the slide.
There has been a great deal of discussion regarding carrying with one in the chamber on this and many many other forums.

[CPO15]

earle: your method (slingshot) was pretty much how I was taught to chamber the first round. In fact, until my Kahrs, I always thought that using the slide stop lever was harmful to the gun. After all, it is a slide STOP lever; not a slide GO lever.

[jocko]

aw, shucks, u mean people really don't read the "manuals".

I could not properly rack my PM9 with any consistency until I had a few thousands rounds through it, Now itis a breeze BUT BUT I read the manual, so I never gripped about the gun not working right, just ol jocko needed sent back to the factory for a quick tutorial in "Manual reading"

Kahrs manuals are very important reading as there are a few KEY STATEMENTS on proper insertion of the slide lock lever, proper insertion of the outter recoil spring and oh yes proper usage of the slide release lever.

[earle8888]

OK not everybody has the same experience. I thought that "sling Shot" method was grasping the slide with thumb and index finger and pulling the slide to the rear. Thats not what I was explaining. I have only two Kahrs PM40 and P45 I have used the PUSH THRU method without any problems from first magazine to the last ones, abouat 2100 40's and 2500 45's.

[jocko]

hand over the top of slide and push/pull should get excellent results. The thumb and index finger is probably used more than anything but has been stated many times that it is not the "proper" way to do it. Hell my G19 is so easy that I think if I could get me teeth around it, I could rack that slide, anyway I want to rack my G19 produces perfect results. Never have I seen a gun as rackable as my G19. Not unlike MY PM9, If it ride that slide at all, it will FTRB..

[xmanridesred]

I was told during my training not to use the slide STOP lever to release the slide, but it is so natural to me to use it as a release that it never sank in. During my break in with the pm9 i used both methods to chamber a round and didnt have problems either way. I have been trying to drill into my dads head for a while now that his motor skills will not exist during a emergency and that he needs to have a round in the chamber at all times while carrying. I doubt he will ever listen.

[wrainwater]

I don't feel 100% comfortable manually racking the slide for the first round. I feel good letting the pistol do it's thing by my using the slide release. My only contribution here is that I always carry a round in the chamber, but when I chamber the first round by releasing the slide, I never remove the magazine to top up. I figure its better to let the gun do its own thing and I shouldn't mess with the positioning of the second round and that I will not manually improve reliability by the process of topping up. I'll just go with the 6 rounds total.

[jeepster09]

Hand racking a Kahr pistol is an issue. I spoke with a guy at Kahr about this a while back and was told the following:

"When you design a small packaged lightweight pistol in a reasonably large caliber, the "rules" significantly change. One of them is, you need strong springs to ensure the slide (having diminushed weight due to smaller size) cycles properly. As a result of strong springs,2 things occur.

1 - Most people cannot pull the Kahr slide back far enough (although they think they can). Hence not enough velocity to feed the round.

2 - Most folks when releasing the slide release will "ride" it just enough to slow velocity causing a jam. "

These conditions are especially prevelant when the gun is new and everything is pretty tight. I have experienced this issue myself.

Now.... all that being said, as my PM9 has aged, the springs have taken a set and I can pull the slide back, release, and successfully load a round into the chamber. My CCW ammo is high quality and I routinely recycle it. I have all the confidence in the world that when I pull the trigger it is going to go boom. I believe odds of my getting a "dud" are slim to none.

Just my .02 :)

Sounds reasonable, however my Sig 365 does not have this problem.