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Stringer512
02-05-2011, 03:03 PM
So, first a big thanks to everyone on this forum -- it was a big factor in my decision to go with the Kahr to begin with.

I bought a P380 from my LGS back in November. I had recently gotten my CWP, and after carrying my XDM9 for a week, I realized a needed a more concealable alternative. It was between the PM9, the Walther PPS and the P380. I ultimately talked myself into the 380, knowing it was the gun that would give me the fewest excuses NOT to be carrying at any given time.

Got it home and prepped it as per Jocko's great thread. First trip to the range was a disaster. Fed it a mix of WWB and Speer Gold Dot, with the end result being:

200 rounds fired
5 light primer strikes
10 failures to feed
2 stovepipes
5 nosedive jams
63 instances of the slide locking back with rounds in the mag
2 failures to go into battery

In retrospect I probably should have quit at 100, but I was pretty pissed and I kept hoping it would just "loosen up". Just about everything that could go wrong did.

Got home and immediately contacted Kahr, they sent me a shipping label and back to the factory it went. Got it back about 10 days later: new trigger bar, new slide stop and the usual feed ramp polishing, etc. Took it back to the range with slightly better, but still horrendous, results.

100 rounds
35 premature slide locks
2 stovepipes
6 failures to go into battery
2 nosedive jams
6 failures to feed

Well, at least there were no light primer strikes. Contacted Kahr again, told them that it was coming back.

Got it back a couple of weeks ago. They had replaced the entire slide, slide stop, recoil spring and both mags. Took it back out the range knowing that if it wasn't damn near flawless it was getting traded that day. This time I shot a mix of Buffalo Bore FMJ, Speer JHP, and some leftover WWB.

Looks like the new slide did the trick:

150 rounds
1 stovepipe
1 failure to go fully into battery

Now, my thinking is that those issues may be operator error. I'm accurate with the gun, but I still have a tough time getting a comfortable grip on it -- after 75 rounds or so I wouldn't be surprised if I limp-wristed it once or twice.

I'm taking it back out tomorrow to put more of the Buffalo Bore through it (think I'm falling for their marketing hype about carrying FMJ rather than JHP in a 380 for additional penetration....). If it runs well again, the CT laser grip will go back on and I'll finally get to use the Recluse holster I bought for it.

My Glock carrying buddies just shake their heads -- they can't believe that I'd put up with this from any gun. Bottom line though, I love the Kahr trigger, the total concealability, and I'm just not comfortable carrying anything but a DAO handgun. Clearly I haven't learned my lesson, I'll be picking up a PM9 to go with it next week :D

All gun companies have their problems. I am satisfied with the way Kahr CS handled things, and I'm satisfied that the gun is finally running as designed. None of the new single stack 9mm's are showing me anything that would tempt me away from the PM9 -- just hoping I don't end up having to send that one back twice as well!

racuda
02-05-2011, 03:33 PM
I have two predictions:

1. The PM9 will be flawless.
2. You will always carry PM9 and (almost) never the P380.

jocko
02-05-2011, 03:38 PM
a shame but that litle gun when it gives issues, it just is terrible. Mine had to go back once before it was right, but like you, it was the most accurate 380 I had ever shot. I owned and still do a lcp and it was a nice gun, just could not hit anything. It had to go back once t. I owned 3 kel tecs. , terrible guns, they went back a total of 17 times,just terrible guns. I love my P380, although I hardly carry it as my PM9 just seems to be so comfortable in my front pocket. They are small and they IMO are not a range gun to shoot a 100 hot rounds through, as yes u do get tired, yes you don't realize it, and yes your grip changes and limping can come into play wnen one gets tired. Nice report, u had issues, u got pissed, very normal, u got it fixed (hopefully).. ask ur glock buddies what model 380 glock will ride in their front pocket???

CPO15
02-05-2011, 03:41 PM
Wow! I didn't know how lucky I was: got my P380 on Thursday, took it to the range after the prep and put 150 rounds through it with the only issues being related to the box of cheap Privi Partisan I wanted to burn up.

Well, I did have another problem - forgot my baseball cap and suffered a half-dozen ejected casings to the forehead.

The advice I've gotten from this forum is, in my opinion, some of the best I've gotten from any internet source. Can't say the recommended prep is responsible for my lack of problems but, after the prep; I really didn't have anything to complain about. Sorry you had issues, glad Kahr has done all that to make it right!

jocko
02-05-2011, 03:51 PM
that Partisan ammo is not a very good round, if it is dirt cheap and if one can live with the issues then maybe for range fodder it is Ok but for reliability, it is not dependable. Most kahr P380 do work like yours did out of the box to, . I always us the PRE PREP thing like insect repellant. If you spray it on and you don't get bit, then you really don't know for sure if there was no mosquitos or that the repeallant worked either, but you also DON'T CARE. I think the prep can serve about the same way. If one does the prep and he has no issues, he could care less one way or the other, for guns are supposed to work out of the box--but we also know better. I always felt the pre prepp part if done gives that shooter the knowledge that when he went out on the first outting, that the gun was indeed clean, the gun was indeed lubed. the magazines were indeed checked out ok and now if issues do arise. some things have already been eliminated. Again when they work as they should, WHO REALLY CARES. You weren't luckly cpo15, you got what most all of us want from a gun company...

phxdrmr
02-05-2011, 04:22 PM
My wife pumped 100 rounds through hers and did have a couple of stove pipes but that was about all. I fired an additional 100 or so with no trouble. I love the little Pink Kahr and so does she.

jocko
02-05-2011, 04:28 PM
oh so we have a Pink kahr lover???humm very interestin "watson". Her stove piples coldhave been limping maybe to, or just getting used to such a small ass gun, being you had zero issues, it tends to lean that way IMO. Nice gun.

question. can she hand rack that little puppy?? or doe sshe use the slide lock lever like recommended..

CPO15
02-05-2011, 04:43 PM
QUOTE FROM JOCKO:

"You weren't luckly cpo15, you got what most all of us want from a gun company..."

Jocko, your absolutely correct. I re-started my gun collection a few years ago. Prior purchases from the 70s and 80s were revolvers, a Hi-Power, an early Glock 17 and a really un-likeable SW 9mm auto. All of these worked 100%, out-of-the -box, no cleaning, right to the range. The past few years, except for another 4 Glocks and the 3 Kahrs I just added, have been a study in frustration. I can accept the issues with my PF9 and Taurus 745 because, it's true, you usually get what you pay for. I've lusted after Kimbers, Colts, Sigs and others but got shy when I read the complaints. I'm glad I got educated on these Kahrs; I didn't really think I was taking a chance with these purchases. But: I do feel lucky when I read of frustrations experienced by Stringer.

jocko
02-05-2011, 05:06 PM
I kinda have to agree, I sold guns for 40 years and we just never had any issues with any companies, but that being said, other than Smith back then they dominated the market and all colt really had to offer was the 1911, Browning was the hi power, there was no kimbers or the other 40 1911 makes around and then came AMT back then with the small semi's and they had many issues and it after that IMO never stopped. To many new companies came on board and just didkn't do their home work. Ruger was a market maker back then but again all those gun makers made the big semi's to, not this small ass stuff we see today and as u know these small as guns seem to be very finicky and maybe the companies are rusihing them out to fast also. 3 years ago I would have said kahrs quality had suffered alot, but I do think today they have thier act together but if there is one gun in their auto line that gives more issues than others IMO it is the P380. Now some can be shooter error to. This is a small ass gun and takes some getting used to with what little grip is there, not alibying for them either, as I know many lcp owners who had issues and some were self induced. You know a 15 ounce PM40 is a pocket rocket gun to shoot comfortably and things just seem to happen that a shooter sometimes has issues with that gun that normally in a K40 frame it would be a breeze to shoot. I know very few Rohrbaugh R9 owners but those I have talked to and who I can trust, tell me that little gun is a real bear to shoot at any range time. Just nothng there to hold on to..

Sometimes we want these guns to get so small and then we find that the gun in that caliber is uncontrollable and that is when things happen that is basically not the guns fault, but it is the shooters fault for buying something that he could not handle.

We just never had any gun reliability issues back 30 years ago, but we didn't have 40 makes of the 1911 either.. If you wanted a 1911 back then you bought a colt and then AMT came out with their hardballers, which we just had a ton of issues with... and then the games began. Glock back then had the G17 and g19,had they stayed right there and not got to fancy they would have never had issues in their lines either.. Smith model 39's and 59" come to mind to as great guns. I think the Model 39 was the first semi auto the Illinois State police ever went to. Great guns back then. they were quality..

xzhync
02-05-2011, 05:10 PM
I have two predictions:

1. The PM9 will be flawless.
2. You will always carry PM9 and (almost) never the P380.

I have a P380 and a PM9. Initially, the P380 had a "light primer strike" problem. On the first trip back, they couldn't find the problem, but on the second trip they did. They took care of it and the only problem I have had since is an occasional stove pipe. I seem to get 1 per 200 rounds or so...probably a limp-wrist situation. I asked them about it and they said that since the stove-pipes occur less than 1% of the time the gun is doing its job. Now as far as the PM9, it has been absolutely perfect. I have put somewhere north of 1000 rounds through it thus far. It has never even had a hint of a failure. I had the barrel ported a month ago and now it shoots even better...very manageable with good +p ammo. Not that it was bad before, but it is pretty sweet now. I have been seeing some of the new pocket 9's that are coming out. So far, I just don't see anything that can compare to the PM9. Of course, the P380 is easier to conceal in a pocket, but the PM9 isn't too bad either. To properly pocket carry the PM9 you need a good pocket holster and the right kind of pants. Tight Jeans are not going to work as well, but slightly loose cargo pants work great.

I would recommend getting the PM9. Kahr really got it right with that pistol.

jocko
02-05-2011, 05:20 PM
so u like the ported huh. I have had magna ported guns for almsot 30 years. My G19 is ported also and that gun is the fienst shooter I have ever had, it just doesnt move after that first shot. Of all the ported guns I have owned I never had a gun act like my G19 did.
My PM9 is just so much fun to shoot, I just wish I could hit with it like I do my G19.

Stringer512
02-05-2011, 05:49 PM
Well, you guys certainly make me feel confident about adding the PM9. I'll have to look into porting the barrel. Never have done it, and have found that the rental PM9's I've shot were already pretty sweet, but hey, any edge is a good thing when your life is dependent on it....

jocko
02-05-2011, 05:53 PM
Oh u just gotta get a PM9 . There is nothing like that little jewel. It is IMO what all outher gun companies shoot to be like.

Look up Magnaport.com and at least read up on their process.

xzhync
02-05-2011, 09:20 PM
so u like the ported huh. I have had magna ported guns for almsot 30 years. My G19 is ported also and that gun is the fienst shooter I have ever had, it just doesnt move after that first shot. Of all the ported guns I have owned I never had a gun act like my G19 did.
My PM9 is just so much fun to shoot, I just wish I could hit with it like I do my G19.

Ya, definitely like the ported barrel. Magna-Port is only about 20 miles from my house, so I dropped it off and picked it up 3 hours later. I wouldn't say that it is a miraculous difference, but the difference is noticeable. It makes +p seem like standard pressure. The more I shoot the PM9 the more I like it. It has been 100% reliable.

jocko
02-06-2011, 05:49 AM
I would think the higher the caliber, like the 40 cal and 10mm one would really feel the difference. My PM9 was noeve runpleasant to shoot anyway, as 98% of my shooting is with WWB from wal mart and the other 2% is hotter defense stuff, so yes I cold have done without porting but I sure love to shoot my ported PM9. My ported G19 is just amazing.

chuck254
02-09-2011, 01:51 PM
My two cents...

Own a Glock 19 as the bed side home defense firearm. When I decided to become a responsible citizen and obtain a CWP, I picked up a LCP because of the weight and size. Couldn't hit the side of a barn (my issue with that long pull and trigger control) so after much research bought a PM9. It was like stepping out of Ford Focus into a Ferrari! Solid, strong, very manageable recoil...felt like a "real firearm". 100% reliability right out of the box and still going after a few hundred rounds. Carried ITW in a The Holster Store Pro Carry HD during the colder months here in Florida when I was wearing a sweat shirt over jeans, but as things have warmed up and we have transitioned to tee shirt and cargo shorts, the PM9 in a Nemesis is a little weighty. Just bought a P380 (love those Kahrs) which is just enough lighter to be comfortable in a Nemesis in the side pocket of the cargo shorts. The feel of the P380 is definitely "Kahrish", solid, great trigger, very accurate. Only a couple of FTFs in the first 150 rounds and I think it is because the P380 likes to be held firmly. On my next trip to the range, I will concentrate on my grip to prove/disprove this theory. I would say the PM9 is the more reliable of the two and will carry that when I can comfortably. But don't discount the mighty little P380. It is small, light, and easily concealable. Has a great, solid feel, that wonderful Kahr trigger, and is very accurate for a small package. You pick...either one is a winner!

jocko
02-09-2011, 02:24 PM
or like u, just own um both.. avoids alot of frustration to.