T40 slide release not long enough to catch mag follower on lock back

[mad1ben2]

Just picked up a new/used T40 in excellent condition. Right off the bat I noticed the slide would not lock back on an empty mag. A quick check and the slide release tang does not extend far enough to catch the metal tab on the mag follower. It came with 4 mags and its the same for all of them and makes me believe its the slide release lever and not a mag issue.

It this common? Could the previous owner changed to a slide release made for a different gun?

I know pictures would help, but I can't post pictures at the moment... and anyone familiar with these guns (I have a handful of polymer guns, this is my first all metal kahr) will know what I'm talking about.

When I remove the slide and put the slide release and mag in, the release tang that catches the mag follower tab is obviously too short to catch it. When I do the same with my P40, the slide release tang catches the tab on the follower without any trouble.

thx,
Scott

[Bawanna]

I looked at the parts list on the Kahr site and they list the T9 lever as 028T9 and the K9 lever as 028K9 which made me believe they might be the same but they don't look the same in the picture.

Difficult to tell the actual length of the lever itself from a picture but the pin is more blunt on the T9.

Seems like they were 24 bucks if I remember right.

Might be worth a call to Kahr and see if you can somehow confirm you have the wrong part. Sounds like it to me although I can't fathom how it could have got that way.

[mad1ben2]

Thanks B -

I just emailed Kahr and asked about the compatibility of the slide stop with other kahrs. I started to wonder after I pulled the one from my TP9 and put it in the T40... solved the problem! But the SS from the T40 would not work in the TP9 as it is too thick and wont allow the TP9 slide to move freely.

I imagine I'll end up buying a new slide stop and that will solve the problem, but I could likely use the TP9 SS until it comes in... assuming I won't damage anything..

I also gave them the S/N off the P40 Covert to see if they would confirm the manufacture date and whether it was a factory Covert or not.

One final thing I found interesting on the T40 is that the factory box it came in is labelled "K9 Tactical, w/ Novak sights" and has the same S/N that's on the gun. Just seems strange to me it's called a K9 Tactical rather than a T40.

Oh well, it's a beautiful gun and I can't wait to try it out. Thx, Scott

[mad1ben2]

Whether or not it's true... I was told by the original owner that he used it as his duty weapon for a security job he had... shot it about 500 times and carried if for about 1 year.

It looks practically brand new... came with 4 mags and a couple OWB leather holsters (black and brown). I've emailed him to ask about the slide stop... we'll see what he says... unless he had a reason to NOT want the slide to lock back, I just can't see why he would have changed it... it has not been filed down from what I can tell.

Oh well, I'll get is fixed up soon. It sure feels great in the hand! And not all that much heavier feeling (in a holster) than the P40 Covert I have... maybe it will be my winter carry gun... who knows..

[Bawanna]

I noticed last night while playing with an MK9 that it has the same slide lock setup as the PM's. The little spring is on the left and snaps in just like a PM. I was kind of surprised at that. It is an early model. My K has the spring on the right side as you described. A much more durable and positive setup. Also much harder to pop that pin out. I usually have to have something to help push with.

It could be his TP lever is the correct length but isn't locking in because of the different spring location also. Just acting as a pin to rotate on.
The correct lever is definitely on the must get list.

OK, OK, your right Jocko, there I said it.............................

[jocko]

ur dead right bawanna The TP lever is pushed up by the little springhy on the left side where as your K lever is pushed up by the long rod type spring on the right side and there is a groove in that lever on that right side,, that the rod type spring that works as a caming action to allow the magazne follower to pullt he lever upward and that groove is also there to hold that lever in place to.

They might interchange but they won't work.. I would not shoot the gun until one gets the proper slide lock lever , ..

[jocko]

bawanna; quote: OK, OK, your right Jocko, there I said it



kills u doesn't???? ROTFLMAO!!

[mad1ben2]

Well we all know that just because something works when functioning a gun by hand doesn't mean it will work properly when fired. I retract my statement that I could shoot it with the TP9 slide stop... I will wait to shoot it once I get the right slide stop. Thanks for the gentle kick in the pants! :)

I did notice the slide stop spring is a little different, but the two slide stops did 'snap' right in and appeared to function properly (other than the one that came on the T40 wouldn't reach the mag follower tab).

I heard back from the original owner.. his very brief response "I had an issue with 1 magazine doing that. Every once in a while I would gently pull that metal tab out a bit so it would catch the slide stop." He then said the slide stop has never been replaced and is the original.

To me it seems perfectly obvious it's the slide stop and not the mags.

[Bawanna]

Wow, wondering how they both would snap into place.

Also strange that he says its original and never replaced, don't seem possible.

As far as the kick in the pants it could very well work as is but might be safer to get the correct lever in place. Other than it falling out which you could easily check each shot it's just a pivot point so if it cycles by hand easily it should shoot.
Usual disclaimer entered here.

Whats visibly different between the TP and the T lever?

[mad1ben2]

I too just got a response from Jay at Kahr. He confirmed the slide stop of the T40 is the same as the MK40.

He also confirmed my covert is a factory covert! :)

[jocko]

I too just got a response from Jay at Kahr. He confirmed the slide stop of the T40 is the same as the MK40.

He also confirmed my covert is a factory covert! :)

strange when one goes to the kahr parts listing, there are two differnet slide stops. If u even look in your manual, it shows the MK series sitting there all by itself with no other models being listed with it. very strange indeed.

BREAKING NEWS;

Yup I am dead ass wrong, sorry about that. the T9 and T40 is the same slide stop set up as the MK series. It shows it in the karh owners manual in a little square boxed area sorry about that guys. Kahr does have a parts mix up when one goes to the T40 or T9 parts list, on their webb site, but more than likely it is a photo screw up and not a true parts listing error.... again sorry for the confusion, sometimes takes a while for me to catch on...

[mad1ben2]

Here are some pictures comparing the slide stop that came with my used T40 (T40SS) next to the slide stop off my TP9 (TP9SS).

http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/mad1ben2/DSCF3878.jpg

http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/mad1ben2/DSCF3879.jpg


And these show the problem perfectly.

The first is the T40 with the T40SS. You can clearly see the tang designed to catch the metal tab on the magazine follower isn't long enough.

The second is the T40 with the TP9SS. You can clearly see the extra length of the tang is long enough to cover the metal tab on the follower.

http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/mad1ben2/DSCF3880.jpg


http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/mad1ben2/DSCF3882.jpg

I realize I need to clean the TP9 slide stop better! :eek:

For grins I tried the slide stop from my P40 and it has very different dimensions and wouldn't even go in... slide pin would go in but then the tang would hit the slide as it's not long enough (from pin to tang) to clear the slide and reach the whole in the slide.

The original owner swears the gun came from the factory like this (meaning he hasn't changed the slide stop). I'm thinking this gun has been shot less than he said! :)

[jocko]

nice job with the photos, really confirms ur convictions to. I learned a ton just from the photos even. Pictures are far better than just words.

nice photos

I suspect kahr is just using one slide stop photo in their webb site in the parts listing but having the correct part # for the correct gun, which makes sense to.

[Bawanna]

On the bright side you should be able to use the TP Slide release in your T until you get a correct one with no worries.

They lock in the same, line up perfectly and should work just fine.

[Bawanna]

It could be a pigment of my interogation but the TP pin looks a little longer than the T. Does it stick out further on the right side? Theres more material in the lever itself on the T than on the TP so perhaps it offsets it.

I think when you order I'd send those pictures via email or printed so your certain to get the correct one?

[jocko]

It is longer bawanna, I noticed that to and I was afraid to ask so as to not add further confustion to all of this. I would still think one should wait until the correct slide lock lever comes in.. At least ur eyes are good to go... or did the LBBP point that out for you.

[Bawanna]

It is longer bawanna, I noticed that to and I was afraid to ask so as to not add further confustion to all of this. I would still think one should wait until the correct slide lock lever comes in.. At least ur eyes are good to go... or did the LBBP point that out for you.

Jeez, Jocko you did it again, laughing so hard my hearing aid fell out and I think I wet myself just a little.

[mad1ben2]

I'm glad the pictures helped.

I noticed quite a few differences in the slide stops... the length is definitely one of them.

I took a couple quick measurements on the length of the pins and then how much more the TP9 pin sticks out on the right side.

Pin length:
T40 - 1.005"
TP9 - 1.1135"

Right side exposed pin:
T40 - .065"
TP9 - .1325"

I'm thinking the lengths are just under 1/8" in difference and the TP9 pin sticks out (of the T40 gun) a little more than 1/16" further than the T40 slide stop.

I did notice that the T40 slide pin sticks out the right side just to the point where it's flush with the side of the slide... so that seems like the perfect length.

Thx, Scott

[mad1ben2]

Just wanted to follow up as I just heard from Jay at Kahr again.

He is sending me a replacement slide stop free.. :D

I told him I appreciated it and that it made me a happy Kahr customer...

Assuming it is different than the one I have, I'll try to post some follow up pictures (hopefully to wrap up this thread!).

Thx, Scott

[jocko]

glad kahr is taking care of you, I can't believe the previous owner had that slide stop in from the beginning either. something is strange there for sure..

[mad1ben2]

I haven't had much of a chance to evaluate this yet, but I did try the MK40 slide stop over the weekend and it did not help... I wanted to wait until I received the new one from Kahr before posting back... it came yesterday and (as expected) is the same.

So I've got 4 mags that all fail to lock back on the T40. So now I'm thinking the metal tabs on the followers have gotten pushed in somehow... on ALL of them... so I took one apart and struggled to find a way to pull the metal tab out a bit... ANY SUGGESTIONS ON HOW TO PULL THIS TAB OUT A BIT???

I managed to scrape one up a bit and pull it out enough to now scrape the inside of the magazine a bit as it slides in and out. It does now slightly catch the slide stop but also rubs inside the magazine... not sure this is how it should function and would imagain over time the friction will push the tab back into the mag.

So I need to take a step back and reevaluate. Compare different kahr guns to the T40 and figure out what's causing this. As I said, I didn't have time to play around last night but I did give it a bit of brain power while sleeping! I know I put the TP9 stop in there and it extended significantly further in and catches the metal tab easily... what I did not do was put rounds in the magazine and ensure the slide stop doesn't catch the live rounds too... I'm thinking it will so my problem wont likely be solved with a differnet slide stop (nor should it since I now know I have the right one... and should be working with this slide stop).

Now that I realize the correct slide stop is in the gun and it doesn't catch the lock back tab on the follower, it has to be something with the mag follower, right?

For now, if someone can give me some advice on how to pull the metal tab out a bit from the follower (hopefully without scaring up the top of the metal tab) I'll extend them as far as possible while not rubbing TOO much on the inside of the mags and see if that helps. And I'll do some comparisons with other kahr guns that are working correctly and try to figure out exactly how much contact is needed between the slide stop and the tab on the mag follower for proper function...

[mad1ben2]

Ok, I finally got the time to re-evaluate the problem... seeing how I now know I have the right slide release...

Well, hopefully you'll be able to see the pictures below, but basically the metal tab that catches the slide release was in backwards in 3 of the 4 magazines I had... on the 4th the problem was simply that the tab had been pushed in a bit too far.

Here are some pictures of the before and after and a couple with the metal tab pulled all the way out and laying next to the follower... in the original (backwards) position and then the correct position.

Before - tab in backwards
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/mad1ben2/DSCF3920.jpg

Tab out but in the backwards position
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/mad1ben2/DSCF3923.jpg

Tab out and flipped to the right position
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/mad1ben2/DSCF3924.jpg

After - tab replaced in the right position
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/mad1ben2/DSCF3925.jpg

I would presume these were all from the same batch of mag followers and simply got installed backwards... I'm embarrassed I didn't notice it right off the bat... but my brain when the slide stop route and as soon as I found a slide stop long enough to catch the tabs I jumped to the conclusion it was the wrong slide stop...

Oh well, live and learn. At least it was an easy fix.

[jocko]

ok, so did that fix the issue with your kahr??? If so, I must say kudos to you for trouble shooting this to. I would have never caught that at all. One might assume one could be out of whack but 3 of them, wow. That is so strange. Four sure test these magazine out andif in doubnt just order 3 or 4 magazine followers and start anew..

Nice job though it all is well. again something that we need to keepin our brain files if one has an issue. Your photos served very well also.

[mad1ben2]

it did solve the problem.. as I said 3 of 4 were like this. when I went back and looked at the original pictures i posted with the 2 different slide stops I had the 4th mag in that was actually installed correctly... it had just been pushed in a little too far... I never inspected the mag followers real close (obviously!)... just jumped to the wrong conclusion that it was the slide stop.

When I look back at the new pictures I'd almost swear I was making this up!!! it just looks screwy but I would almost swear on my kids (but obviously I'd never do that!) the photos are not 'doctored'... 3 of the 4 were exactly as I show... after correcting 2 of the 3 I decided I'd better grab the camera and capture the kodak moment or no one would believe me...

It's sad that it took me almost a week to build up the energy to research this again... I was disgusted when the MK9 slide stop didn't work and just didn't have the energy or patiences to really look at it...

I'm just glad the problem is fixed! I was going to just buy some new followers but when I found that a small jeweler's screw driver would pry those tabs out I figured I could flip them over and at least try it...

I did find that in order for the tab to catch consistently it has to be far enough out to noticeably scrap the inside of the mag.... not enough to snag it or keep it from moving up as each round is stripped off... the mag spring if plenty strong enough to keep it moving... but with my other kahrs this amount of friction isn't necessary...

If/when I order anything from Kahr I'll likely add a couple followers to the order just for good measure... as of now this is a range and possibly IDPA gun for me, so no life/death situations expected!

We can put this thread to bed now... thx!

P.S. I too loved the old '97 Heritage Springers... I have the '96 FLSTN (Heritage Special - cross between the Heritage and the Fatboy).. I think they was only made from '93 - '96... the first one was the "moo glide" as it had the black/white cow leather seat and bags... each year had it's own unique paint scheme... they replaced the Heritage Special with the Springer in '97... definitely a unique bike for sure... all that fringe!:)