Trigger Jobs

[Chopprs]

Hi guys,
I have been here for a long time and finally registered cuz I wanted to see all the kewl pics!:)
Really kewl forum with no bantering, I like it!
I have two PM9's, a standard one and an all black one. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone here has done any trigger work. My triggers are very nice, the all black gun seems much better than the standard one. As a matter of fact the standard PM9 is wierd, it does not fire until the trigger is aaaalll the way back.
I was thinking about just polishing the trigger group's contact surfaces but am concerned that it may make the trigger too light. Has anyone here done this?
Thanx in advance...

(here is pics of my carry package)

[jlottmc]

There have been very few people that were brave enough to try to get into that frame. If you want to reduce the weight of the trigger pull, put a Wolf's 5.5 lbs striker spring in. That will help smooth things up tremendously. If it were me, I'd leave the bottom end alone. It's not hard to do a lot of damage there and do it quickly. Kahrs, have a smooth trigger, it may be long, but it is smooth. The weights I've seen were just right for a pistol with Kahr's mission in mind. Polishing the contact surfaces won't do a whole lot to bring the weight down, but will make it smoother. The other issue with polishing those contact points is this: polish makes slick, slick makes things that need to grab and catch each other less effective. If you are that concerned about the trigger on the stainless pistol, then a call to Kahr would be a great starting point. If you have an older version the plate that you would need to get to is pinned in, and not screwed in with a Torx screw. There is also a cross pin holding the trigger pivot pin in place, and I know of no way to pull that with out damage. Kahr is also known to screw straight into the polymer and not use a bushing, making that hole easy to strip, with over tightening, which would be bad (God forbid you start one to cross thread before you realize it, it happens, to even the most experienced in a moment of lax). Again, I would leave it alone on the bottom end.
Welcome to the asylum.

[jocko]

exactly what JLOTTMC said. leave the bottom alone, u can't help it harldy at all but you sure can screw things up . Kahrs triggers are super smooth and they willeveng et a tad smoother with rounds down range, The 5# striker spring Ihav eit in my PM9 andit is super. It does not shorten your trigger pull of 3/8", so it is stilla sfe carry gun. Other than that, youcan if you are eager polish wnat parts move in the slide but truthfully you won't nocitce it, un less you had a very ruff feeling slide.

I would advise leaving the lower section alone..

[jeep45238]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1cDRE0mYdY


Due to the trigger pin, I wouldn't mess a whole lot with the lower assembly. Everything you need to access in it you can access without removal.

[earle8888]

Just a thought!!!
In the good-ol-days once upon a time with S&W wheels some placed tooth paste, (plodent powder was favorite) behind the side plate and work the action thousands of times. This does polish and smooth out. BUT must be cleaned out COMPLETELY or wear will occur. I was going to do this on my PM 40, BUT it is sooooo smooth after 3500 rnds I don't need to.

[jocko]

earle, but no cavities I bet either.

[jocko]

10-4 on that. Kinda hard IMO to smooth out an already smmoth trigger system as kahrs.. I tend to think we are used to doing trigger jobs on other guns and realy feeling a difference, where as kahrs are just not that way. You might spend some quality time smoothing things but IMO unless you had one gritty ass kahr in the first place, u not gonna notice much difference.

[joshh]

my pm9 has the smoothest trigger of all my pistols except my markIII target which i suppose is quick but not really smooth. if your stainless model seems that off i'd contact kahr.
for those who've done it, that 5lb striker spring make much difference?

[tomwalshco]

I guess we can all agree that the triggers are smooth. No question. I just wish it was a little shorter.

No lectures please, but if it was just 1/8 shorter I would be much happier. Issue I have is the last fraction of an inch of pull, my trigger finger contacts my thumb, which makes me less accurate overall. Pulling with the pad of my finger rotates my whole grip clockwise - not doing it.

If I had grown up on revolver triggers, it wouldn't be an issue. But I've mostly shot autos and single action autos at that. And I don't feel like re-learning decades of shooting muscle memory.

I know it can be done with a trigger bar mod. Shorter trigger might make it a bit heavier, but that would be OK. And I'm only talking about a very short distance reduction.

Realize it's a safety and liability issue, but I'm a big boy. Kahr obviously would never bless it, like I doubt Glock blesses the 3.5# trigger, either. Loss of warranty - no biggie for me. I feel guns are like electronics - get through the 1st 1,000 rounds OK, and you're probably good to go for the duration.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if the legal department at Kahr made the final decision on trigger length instead of engineering. These manufacturers have to design guns generally for the lowest common denominator if you know what I mean.

[jocko]

I have yet to see anyone do a trigger bar mod to get a shorter trigger travel. Probably could be done, but not totally sure that would produce the results wanted. Being kahrs have no safety other than the looong but smooth trigger, probably best leave well enough alone. 3/8" trigger travel for most seems to be not to such an issue.

If u can master a good double action revolver, u can master the kahr trigger..

Being kahr makes the PM9 now with a manual safety, one might think they would have made the trigger travel shorter, if that was indeed their intentions in the firstplace. They didn't so I do feel they wanted the 3/8 pull. TRhe frist kahrs made had the 1/2" trigger in them, so I guess we can say they shortened it a tad..

[tomwalshco]

I'd be tickled if it was 3/8". But the bottom of my finger moves 3/4", at least 3/16" of that is takeup.

Somebody will design and stamp some out and will sell a ton of them, I'll wager.... I'd buy 4.

[jocko]

If one takes the slide off and pulls the trigger back slowly, there really is very little slop/play in the kahr trigger system. I thinik what seems like play is just the over all smoothness of the kahr trigger system.. Being that kahrs are basically maybe 20%or less in a pre-cocked position, the trigger system is longer than some of the other striker fired guns like glocks,which are probably 50% or more pre cocked and the Smith M & P which to me seem even more pre-cocked, but both have some sort of a trigger safety on them where as kahrs is just the long smooth trigger.No doubt I would shoot a much shorter trigger better but just not sure I would want to pocket carry it then either. Kahrs are not going to win any target shoots, but I do think they can win their share of gun battles...

It might be just me to,k but if a person thinks he is going to buy a kahr and shoot it as good as a 1911 or a nicely tuned Glock, then I think most will be very unhappy with the end results.

[jeep45238]

It might be just me to,k but if a person thinks he is going to buy a kahr and shoot it as good as a 1911 or a nicely tuned Glock, then I think most will be very unhappy with the end results.


Nah, I shot my T40 as good as my 1911 - on it's first outing. At the time, I had shot over 15K rounds through my 1911.

[jocko]

ur not the norm. You are a good shooter. Just going by most al lthe reports on this forum and others, Most kahr owners do't shoot them as good as 1911's or a nice glock.

I am not a good shooter and basing it on even my resutls. I shoot my glock 5X better than either rof my two kahrs. I attribute that to the trigger system,not the lact of quality

[High Altitude]

I don't mind the initial long trigger, I just wish it had a short reset for follow up shots.

I have spent so many years shooting Glocks and DA/SA Sigs that I am not sure I am going to be able to get used to the long trigger reset.

[MW surveyor]

Practice, High, Practice!

[jocko]

u gotta let the trigger reset on a revolver,. not much difference. U will get used to it.Asu well know that loooooong trigger is there for a reason. It is ur only safety on the kahr.

surv is right. PRACTICE makes perfect.

[earle8888]

Jacko- I don't consider myself a great shot, BUT I shoot my P45 better than Wilson CQB, and on a par with series 70 Gold Cup. That is much smaller than 2" group at 50 feet. Note Wilson and Kahr have night sights. The wilson use Novak low profile, took me awhile to get used to them, standard Gold Cup sights. also laser on P45. Going to add laser to CQB

[Bawanna]

Jacko- I don't consider myself a great shot, BUT I shoot my P45 better than Wilson CQB, and on a par with series 70 Gold Cup. That is much smaller than 2" group at 50 feet. Note Wilson and Kahr have night sights. The wilson use Novak low profile, took me awhile to get used to them, standard Gold Cup sights. also laser on P45. Going to add laser to CQB

That's gotta be an exception to the rule. Has to be a reason for it but darned if I can figure it. You shoot your Gold Cup better than the CQB also?
I've heard that Wilson's are so accurate you don't even need to aim.
Guess I shouldn't believe everything I read but don't they have accuracy guarantees even?

You must just be darn good at trigger manipulation to get the P45 to sing the right tune. I'm not doubting you in the slightest, if you say it's so it's gospel in my book. Course you can give a good shot a junker gun and he'll do well with it, by the same token you can give a bad shot the finest most accurate gun there is and he may only be mediocre.

I'd sure like a nice Gold Cup to fondle from time to time, always was fond of those, never owned one. Just a dang classy gun to my simple eye.

[jocko]

Heis just a good shooter bawanna, no other way for me to look at it. I have no doubts in what is saying but I do think the norm for most shooters is that they can take a gold cup and shoot circles around any kahr, person for person. I know I shoot my G19 5X better than any of my kahrs.

[Willieboy]

I've had trigger jobs done on two of my guns: a Ruger SP101 and a Bulgarian Makarov. Teddy Jacobson of Actions by T did both my guns. A word of caution though. Once you have your gun "enhanced" that way, a prosecutor can claim you sought to make your gun even more deadly. Within the last two months, I saw on the news that someone was sentenced to an extra ten years in prison for just such an enhancement.

If the shooting is ruled a justifiable homicide, there would be no criminal consequences but, in the civil courts such an enhancement sould come back to bite you.

Mind you, I'm not a lawyer but this is what I understand and have seen in the news.

[tomwalshco]

If I carry a knife around, should I make sure I never sharpen it?

In my mind, that whole argument is just silly. Shoot a .22, get probation. Shoot a .44 mag, get the chair. Hollow points - burn in hell for eternity. +p ammo, solitary. Night sights - bread and water. Endless drivel.

Any improvements I make to enhance performance = homicidal maniac?

Are they teaching this stuff in ambulance-chasing law school now? #7 1/2 birdshot only in home defense shotguns. Buckshot - lethal injection.... or aim for the the shins.

[MW surveyor]

tom, I've got a district attorney in the family. His advice? Get a better lawyer. Remember that if you ever have to go to court, it will be a jury trial, so you better hope for some intelligent people on the jury (and good luck with that).

I shoot my SP101 3" better than the CW9 when shooting it in DA. Heavier gun plus I can see the sights better. I am still satisfied with the accuracy of the CW9 though as it was not purchased as a range gun. I gotta get at least a higher visibility front sight or paint the whole front sight instead of just the dot on my CW9. (Note to self-paint sight before next range trip!)

[tomwalshco]

hi-vis paint paint on your sights = another 5 years in the slammer.

[Bawanna]

I might as well go and turn myself in at the big house just for the thoughts of improvements going through my head.

Hi I put XS Big Dots on my Kahr, warm up ole sparky, I'm a killin machine.

[MW surveyor]

tom - nah, I'll just get the son in law if I don't have to shoot anyone in LA.
On second thought, I'll just get one of those 4 mega watt lasers. Completely eradicate the evidence!

[tomwalshco]

Trouble is - all the good defense lawyers will be busy getting Somali pirates, Gitmo scumbags and homegrown Muslim terrorists off scott-free....

Us law abiders will be stuck with minimum-wage district court hacks fresh out of the Ozark School of Law (internet diploma). SEIU union members, too probably.

[earle8888]

Bawana-- This is my first REAL gold cup. I have many personal attempts at making a parts gun into a gold cup. This gold cup had been basterdized. A real slocmiester had worked it over! Had to replace the extractor!!! the end was rounded funny. No way a brass case is ever going to do that to a steel extractor! The feed ramp is ground very very wide. I wish people wouldn't listen to people About gun-smithing that don't know gun-smithing I have polished out most of the FILE marks. BUT, it shots great!! It even makes me look like a real shootist:). Yesterday at the range all the old F...ts had a go with it everyone shot better than ever! Regarding my P45, most of the guys that have shot it shot it well also, even the guy's who swear at non-steel frames! I must be a very lucky fellow, both my Kahr's PM40 &P45 shoot extremely well, each has thousands of rounds down range at paper bad guy's.
Slowly convincing the old f..ts that laser projection sights are really great! All but two have seen-the-light and have them on their carry guns.

[jlottmc]

I shoot my P45 as well as I do any pistol, which these days isn't saying much. As for the moded gun get an enhancement bit, per Mas, be able to justify and articulate why you put the mod on there, and there is no argument. On another thought, I'll take a 12ga. loaded with 7 1/2 shot, it just means that the first one gets there attention, and the next goes to the face. Besides, at home defense ranges, the patterns are nice and tight any way. I have seen the result of a close range bird shot blast, fatal, not this time, meat off the bone, yup, and the fight taken out of the scum bag, yup (guy actually was sitting on the front steps waiting for the police). As for shoot them in the shins, why not, at least the first shot; remember if a man can't stand, he can't fight.

[jocko]

or shoot him in the shins on the last shot!!!!!! But let him know your piss-d on the first shot..

[jlottmc]

Well jocko, I think that message would be received when my 12ga. goes boom. Nothing says F-you like a 12ga. BTW, I never thanked you for that comment on another thread about even me being one of the knowledgeable folks around here, so thank you. Down side is that was a lot of snow moved to pull that job on you ;), and my back still hurts.

[tomwalshco]

Only on the internet. Make a joke - get a sermon. My fault. Should have wallpapered it with smiley faces.....:):D:rolleyes:
:D:mad:
:rolleyes:

[O'Dell]

Only on the internet. Make a joke - get a sermon. My fault. Should have wallpapered it with smiley faces.....:):D:rolleyes:
:D:mad:
:rolleyes:

Hey Tom, Way off the subject, but I notice your avatar is a pistol I'm considering. I want to replace the stolen SA Ultra Compact, and I'm looking at the Defender and the SA LW Micro Compact. Do you have the Colt, and if so, do you like it?

Thanks,
O'Dell

[tomwalshco]

My 2nd Defender. My favorite gun. Runs 100%. Bought it to carry, but the manual safety/SA trigger is an issue. Not sure I trust myself enough. I like a light safety, but I don't want to blow my balls off either. Very easy shooter at the range.

This second time around, I looked at them all including Kimber. I guess my 1st impression of Colt helped me make up my mind again.

Changed out the wrap-arounds and put slim woods on. Also put on a Clipdraw, which I've got on all my Kahrs.
http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac215/tomwalshco/1911/Defender10.jpg

[jeep45238]

Back to trigger jobs though.....


Polishing the contact surfaces on a Kahr will not do what most are used to (like what it can do for a sear/hammer fired pistol). It is a striker fired gun, that is nearly fully cocked by the motion of the trigger lever, using a cam. You must fight the striker spring every time you pull the trigger.

That said, here is how to do a trigger job on a Kahr. Make sure to lubricate the sufraces well with a quality gun oil after cleaning extremely well - it makes the trigger insanely smooth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1cDRE0mYdY

[jlottmc]

I was joking around too, for the most part. I might shoot them in the balls for the first shot, maybe then they'll get the hint that they ain't welcome, and bonus of removal from the gene pool.
As for a trigger job on a Kahr, I still say why?

[jocko]

Well jocko, I think that message would be received when my 12ga. goes boom. Nothing says F-you like a 12ga. BTW, I never thanked you for that comment on another thread about even me being one of the knowledgeable folks around here, so thank you. Down side is that was a lot of snow moved to pull that job on you ;), and my back still hurts.

to give credit where credit is due, except for the GREAT ONE, who I bow to 24/7. He is my nemesis. hE IS THE 2015 harley that I have not seen yet but truly know it will be a winner. What can I say Bawanna is the greatest grip refinisher in the world BUT BUT he needs to throw away that ti-ty pink paint he used on my once beautiful Herretts grips he redone for me. He told me what I sent them to hinm that he would do that up so good that I will always think of himn when I pick that gun up TRUST ME I THINK OF HIM..:hungry:

[jlottmc]

I'm glad to see we're all a little rowdy lately. I guess he did have a good point though, you will always think of him when you see those grips. Throw up a couple of pictures and let us see how nice they came back.:D

[jocko]

I promised him I would not show them off. I have showed them once to geti nto one of those ti-ty bars where u have to pay to get in and when I showed them those grips, they let me in for free and was able to sit up front. So I can't knock his grip work.