DLC is POS

[srice425]

just got my pm9 and as soon as i put it in my done hume holster, it scratched the hell out of it in several places revealing the silver inderneath.

holster 1 - dlc 0

[pm9fan]

Love the PM9 but had a bad DLC and stainless showed in a couple of months. Sent in and got a new slide but the tech dinged the front Big Dot. Coating on this slide was marginal. Second sent back and replaced by Kahr. Turn around is two to three weeks. Just call and get an RMA.

[srice425]

hmm, i may do that. is all of the black finishes not DLC or are there some black finishes and some black dlc finishes?

[kramm]

I'd see about sending it back. I've had my pm45 for over a year now and carry it every day,can't find any bad spots on the finish.

[srice425]

i hate to send it back for 3 weeks, i just got back from the range and put a little over 100 rds through it. flawless.

[eastenn]

actually you already got the hard part over, it has its first scratches now you don't have to worry about it anymore

[srice425]

i just dont want the actual finish to be faulty. i dont mind the scratches.

[kramm]

Have you talked to any one at Kahr about it? I would think that they might want to know about a problem with the finish . I' not sure if the finish is done at Kahr or parts are sent out to be applied.

[srice425]

yes, he thinks there was something in the holster that was sharp, but it was brand new, out of the bag and was free of obstructions. he said i could mail it back and they could touch it up.

[jocko]

just got my pm9 and as soon as i put it in my done hume holster, it scratched the hell out of it in several places revealing the silver inderneath.

holster 1 - dlc 0

what the hell was in that holster to do that. Leather sure won't cause it. If yo have a bad dlc finish that is one thing but leather scratching the dlc finish. , wow. have you tried taking a regular pencil eraser and rubbing it over that scratch. Many times one can rub away that scratch. Personaly I don't think kahr can touch up scratchs. I don't think they put the dlc finish on their guns. I think it is a vendor process and to my knowledge there is no dlc touch up .

You can send just the slide back for about $5 through regular mail but just not sure kahr can do alot for it, nor even sure if they will replace it as they didn't do it. Can't hurt to call and ask either. He just outta get some of that flat balck touch up pens in gun stores and touch up the scratch and forget about it...

From KAHR SOURCE: A couple of years back Kahr decided to discontinue carbon steel guns and manufacture all slides and steel frames from stainless steel. Most consumers liked the corrosion resistance of stainless.
However, Kahr quickly discovered that not all consumers wanted bright and shiny guns. In dim light, the glint of a stainless slide being withdrawn by an undercover operative could lead to fatal complications.
To solve this problem and darken the stainless slide, Kahr flirted briefly with baked-on Teflon used by many manufacturers but found the results less than satisfactory. The economy of the finish was appealing to Kahr, but is soon discovered that the cosmetics were short-lived. Kahr tried another process that required substantial heat. This actually changed the metal's molecular structure and made it more brittle. Finally, Kahr developed its proprietary Tungsten Diamond-Like-Coating (Tungsten DLC), which uses a process called Plasma Assisted Chemical Vapor Deposition to coat the parts.
Tungsten DLC is applied in a vacuum chamber where cathodes transform the tungsten into a gas that plates the parts. The process increases the surface hardness to a whopping 90 on the Rockwell C scale. Just for comparison, your average 1911 frame will register about 28 to 30 on the same scale.
One of the best selling points of the Diamond-Like Coating in that the parts are never heated over 300 degrees Fahrenheit, so there's no need to worry about the parts losing their temper, softening, or becoming brittle. Also, only about two microns of the material is deposited on the slide. In case you're wondering, that amounts to about 80 millionths of an inch-far too little to affect the parts' function or fit.
Kahr's Tungsten DLC thoroughly impresses me. Not only does it perform its intended task of coloring the bright stainless steel to a matte, non-reflective black, it also provides a tough, corrosion-proof covering that is virtually scratch proof. And it will not wear even when subjected to extensive holster carry. For a gun that will be used exclusively for concealed carry, the Tungsten DLC finish makes a lot of sense.



all finishs for the last 8 years are dlc , Yours is certanly dlc finish.

A shame as dlc when properly applied is tougher than the stainless under it. It has a rockwell of around 90, where your slide in stainless is around 30+.

[WMD]

I agree with Jocko. DLC is pretty hard stuff and is hard to scratch. Just send the slide to Kahr, I am sure they will take care of it. I think their standard response to turnaround is 2 to 3 weeks but actually, I have experienced it being a lot quicker then that. I got my PM9 back in a week. Considering shipping time, that means they turned it around almost same day.

[srice425]

well, in my case, i think the coating was a dud. lol. the leather holster was clean, bc i looked right after it scratched. what a shame. i figured the finish would be fairly touch. from the way the describe it, you should be able to pocket carry the thing with a bunch of change in ur pocket and it wont scratch. with the finish i had, if i did this to it, id have a 2tone pistol in half a day.

i sent it off this morning. it should get there by tues. i didnt have to rma since it was just a field stripped slide.

i love the gun tho. took it to the range yesterday and put the first 100 flawless rounds through it. shoots awesome, but i have to get adjusted to the trigger pulling so far back.

[hsart]

I bought a black P380 when they first came out with that finish and there were a lot of thin spots where the stainless showed. Kahr took it back and replaced it without any hesitation. If you get a new slide means that you need to still break it in and mate to the lower, so the 100 rounds you put through it is your loss. I would let Kahr decide the best option and I too do not think it can be retouched without showing.

[crazymailman]

I have had a p9 for less than a month and the finish is so thin that I scratched it with my wedding ring while installing a slip on grip. There were also some small spots where it looked like stainless shows through, but I wasn't going to worry about it till it scratched so easy. I just got off the phone with tech at Kahr and was told that they do not warranty finishes. It kinda ticks me off that the finish is so easy to screw up.

[wyntrout]

I bought a black P380 when they first came out with that finish and there were a lot of thin spots where the stainless showed. Kahr took it back and replaced it without any hesitation. If you get a new slide means that you need to still break it in and mate to the lower, so the 100 rounds you put through it is your loss. I would let Kahr decide the best option and I too do not think it can be retouched without showing.

I was wondering what ever happened with that spotty finished gun. I told Bob Holmes about it and gave him the link to your posts.

I've come to find out that the DLC finish is not as tough as I thought it would be, for all the high-tech process and all. I suspect some pistols are better finished than others.

Wynn:(

[jocko]

I have had a p9 for less than a month and the finish is so thin that I scratched it with my wedding ring while installing a slip on grip. There were also some small spots where it looked like stainless shows through, but I wasn't going to worry about it till it scratched so easy. I just got off the phone with tech at Kahr and was told that they do not warranty finishes. It kinda ticks me off that the finish is so easy to screw up.

take your complaint another step higher, as a month is not something that kahr should try to skirt around on. That finsih a sthey state is harder than hell and they say damn near impossable to scratch even and to saya they do not guarantee a finish, well tome that is B.S. It is part of the way you bought the gun from kahr, They are IMO responsivble for puttingout a good finish and as duralbe as they advertise. Take it higher. U can just send the slide to them through regular mail even..

benice but also be affirmative to your issue to. Ask for eion Pryol or Jay .

[crazymailman]

Thanks Jocko, I'll give that a try.

[Bawanna]

I always emphasise "be nice". Ugly gets you now where in a big hurry.

Firm but nice.

[crazymailman]

Thanks Bawanna. Yeah, being a jerk can get the phone slammed in your ear.

[hsart]

I was wondering what ever happened with that spotty finished gun. I told Bob Holmes about it and gave him the link to your posts.

I've come to find out that the DLC finish is not as tough as I thought it would be, for all the high-tech process and all. I suspect some pistols are better finished than others.

Wynn:(

Hey Wynn... I was down for a several months with some kidney stones and left the forum after I received the new P380 black slide from Kahr... I have not even shot any rounds through it but am getting back to the range in the next week. The new slide looks good and if there are any issues with the finish I'll post here.

[Goffman]

Any further word on the finish issues? My brand new black PM9 is showing some finish wear (stainless showing through) in two tiny spots in "corners" (pointy-ish spots) opposite one another on the top front of the slide. I haven't carried the pistol for any significant amount of time, so I know it's not holster wear, although, if any spot is eventually going to show wear, I would expect it to be these spots. I assume that the finish didn't quite "take" in these two spots. Not sure if it's worth sending back, except that the spots seem to be growing ever so slowly. Any thoughts? I take really good care of my pistols, so I'm troubled by the premature issues with the finish.

By the way, the pistol has been flawless in all other respects. My wife's black P380 does not show these same issues with finish even though she has been carrying her pistol for a number of months now.

If I could be sure that the slide would be replaced with one that has no problems at all, I would send it back immediately. But, I'm not sure that I want to risk trading one problem for (potentially) another. On the other hand, if the spots are going to continue to grow, I want to send it back now while I can still claim truthfully that I haven't carried the pistol any significant amount.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Input? All are welcome.

[jocko]

goffman: THEY WOULD replace your slide, they would not refinish it again. Kahr does not do the dlc work in the first place. If it wasmine and it was working flawlesslly, I would just shoot it like I stole it.No guaratnee the next slide is going to be any betterI am not making excuses for their fiish eiher, so don't take it that way I would think over time certain areas would start to show some type of wear anyhow,no matter how good the finish is. But again it is your gun and everyone wants their guns to be a certain way,and I don't fault them for that either..

[Goffman]

goffman: THEY WOULD replace your slide, they would not refinish it again. Kahr does not do the dlc work in the first place. If it wasmine and it was working flawlesslly, I would just shoot it like I stole it.No guaratnee the next slide is going to be any betterI am not making excuses for their fiish eiher, so don't take it that way I would think over time certain areas would start to show some type of wear anyhow,no matter how good the finish is. But again it is your gun and everyone wants their guns to be a certain way,and I don't fault them for that either..

Thanks, Jocko. I'm kind of leaning toward leaving well enough alone. My only real concern is that the finish may continue to wear off, and that, down the road, I won't be able to make a truthful claim of minimal carry. In other words, I've had the pistol for only two months, so everyone would agree that it shouldn't be showing finish wear at this point. It would be a different story a year from now, and Kahr may be less likely to want to "help a brother out" at that point. If the finish doesn't wear any further, no problems. But, if the wear continues or accelerates, I'm going to need to do something about it.

Regardless of the minor issues with the finish, this PM9 is a sweet pistol. I wish I had bought one sooner.

[jocko]

I understand and that is a decision tha tyou are going to have to make. I wouldsay getting anew slide wouldnot hinder reliability either, but again one never knows. If it was mine, I would pass on it carry it a few more years and see what it looks like and if it looks like crapolsa,send it off to a refinisher and have it coated "RIGHT". I agree after a fewyears kahr is going to tellyou that is a normal wear thing. Not saying your are either but some people are just hards on guns more than others. The dlc finishjk"should" be durable ashell it has a rockwell of above 70, about twice as strong as the stainless under it would rockwell but again ifthe finish is not right, it won't hold up. Kahr has no way of knowing that until it is to late and that is why I do think they would take care of you now if you send the slide back to them. U can send it back for about $5 and not the entire gun. If you decide to do that I wouldl call and chat with them.. They will probably tell you to send it back and if they say the want the entire gun, then u should insisit of kahr picking up te gun for you prepaid, other wise it is very costly on ur part.

Two months should not produce what your seeing, IMO. Hellyour in Michigan, to damn cold right now to do much . U would probably get the new slide within a week if u sendit ihn.

[srice425]

i just got mine back from them. its the same slide and got refinished with a 2 week turn around.

[Goffman]

i just got mine back from them. its the same slide and got refinished with a 2 week turn around.

Do you happen to have before and after pictures? I'd love to see how the refinish worked out. If not, what do you think of the work?

[jocko]

i just got mine back from them. its the same slide and got refinished with a 2 week turn around.

good to hear, for if they will refinish your existing good working slide, then IMO it is worth a trip back if it is not right. CanI askhow youcan tell it is ur old slide???

[srice425]

good to hear, for if they will refinish your existing good working slide, then IMO it is worth a trip back if it is not right. CanI askhow youcan tell it is ur old slide???

i took some pics of the underside wear of the slide and they matched up.

[srice425]

Do you happen to have before and after pictures? I'd love to see how the refinish worked out. If not, what do you think of the work?

i dont have any new pics. it looked brand new, but, after a day of holstering/reholstering, i can already see some small silver scratches.

i dont think that the dlc finish is as strong as what they advertise. maybe i just had too high of expectations. i dont know. if i were you, i wouldnt send it back unless it was really bothering me. you would prob get it back and have the same experience with time.

[jocko]

i dont have any new pics. it looked brand new, but, after a day of holstering/reholstering, i can already see some small silver scratches.

i dont think that the dlc finish is as strong as what they advertise. maybe i just had too high of expectations. i dont know. if i were you, i wouldnt send it back unless it was really bothering me. you would prob get it back and have the same experience with time.

Good afternoon. We are unable to refinish or coat any stainless slide that
is DLC as the coating is actually heat treated and put on as the slide is
being manufactured. I hope this information helps


got this from kahr awhile back when I was inquirng for a shooter. I didn't think kahr was able to mess with any refinish stuff: What u have is a NEW SLIDE..

srice425. take a lead pencil with the eraser, rub where those scratchs are showing through and see if they dissappear. Ihave been told sometimes this will take them away. Probably B. S. but let us know,..

[Goffman]

i dont have any new pics. it looked brand new, but, after a day of holstering/reholstering, i can already see some small silver scratches.

i dont think that the dlc finish is as strong as what they advertise. maybe i just had too high of expectations. i dont know. if i were you, i wouldnt send it back unless it was really bothering me. you would prob get it back and have the same experience with time.

I wonder if it has something to do with variation in the composition of the steel. I'm not a metalurgist (in any sense of the word), but I can't help but wonder if minor variation in composition (maybe a hair too much chromium or something of that sort) could influence the deposition or adherence of the DLC coating. The influence might be very small and may show itself only in places that already have difficulty with respect to deposition/adherence (e.g., pointy spots and corners where the surface area is small). Anyway, it's just a theory, and from a layman to boot, but maybe it's food for thought.

[srice425]

i will try the eraser trick. unless they gave me a slide w/ the exact wear on the bottom as my old one, then its my old slide.

not sure what they did to fix it or maybe they detail stripped it and put all parts but the slide of mine in a new one.

[srice425]

well, after getting my newly coated slide back from kahr for several weeks, i am already seeing some pretty significant scratches from the holster. maybe i just had too high of expectations for this coating. in my opinion, its not that tough. just hoping it doesnt start to rust.

[Goffman]

Thanks, Jocko. I'm kind of leaning toward leaving well enough alone. My only real concern is that the finish may continue to wear off, and that, down the road, I won't be able to make a truthful claim of minimal carry. In other words, I've had the pistol for only two months, so everyone would agree that it shouldn't be showing finish wear at this point. It would be a different story a year from now, and Kahr may be less likely to want to "help a brother out" at that point. If the finish doesn't wear any further, no problems. But, if the wear continues or accelerates, I'm going to need to do something about it.

Regardless of the minor issues with the finish, this PM9 is a sweet pistol. I wish I had bought one sooner.

Quick update on the situation with my PM9:

It does NOT appear that the "shiny spot" on the left front corner of the slide is growing, nor does it appear that the "shiny-spot-to-be" on the right front corner of the slide has made any progress in developing into a full fledged "shiny spot". So, I'm guessing that these are just a couple of very small places where the black coating didn't fully "take". They are "corners", so one would anticipate the greatest challenges with the coating in just these spots. Truthfully, though, you'd have to look pretty closely to see the "imperfections". If you look at the slide straight down from the top, or square from the side, you can't see them. You have to slowly rotate the slide on its center line to catch the light in just the right spot. So, what appeared to be a problem in the making appears now to not be a problem, which is good.

Just thought I'd bring the question full circle to at least a tenative conclusion.

[CarlCyrus]

Bright spots you say...you should see the 1911 Commander upper I carried on my issue frame in Iraq. The blowing sand was so thick that everything...including your eyeballs got scratched. :eek::eek::eek:

Every time I take it to the range someone makes a comment about how hard I am on guns...if they only knew where it had been they wouldn't open their mouth. She looks like a spotted puppy dog, but she will do "Jingle Bells" with steel targets all day long.

I'll take a good shooting piece over a good looking one any day.

Time for engraving and refinishing...but that is another story I'll carry on the 1911Forum.

Carl

[Catshooter]

Carl,

It may surprise you but a lot of people on the web really enjoy pics of real working guns, guns with history to them.


Cat

[getsome]

Thank you CarlCyrus for searving your country....God Bless each and every one of you for keeping the rest of us here at home free and safe....How about posting a picture of that fine shooting 1911 and do you have any tips on what ya'll did to keep things running over there in the sand box...I'm glad you are back and shooting at targets that don't shoot back and hope you will stick around here for a while too...Thank you again for what you did for us...

[Bawanna]

What they said in spades. I'd love to see a picture and hear more about it. We even got a 1911 thread just for that sort of thing but you get a pass. You can post where ever strikes your fancy.

[Goffman]

Seems like this thread has been hijacked. Perhaps the 1911 folks could think about posting 1911-related information in a thread that actually has something to do with 1911s. ;)

Carlcyrus, if you go back to the beginning of the thread, you can see that both the original poster and I were seeking information about the black finish on *new* guns (Kahr PM9s in particular) that barely had been put into service. Unfortunately, a hijacked thread is unlikely to garner any relevant information, now or in the future. :(

[kpm9]

My P380, K9 and P9 all have the DLC finish and are rock solid and seem impervious to scratches and holstering doesn't cause any issues at all!