Wow, I really hate this POS

[frank_drebin]

It's days like this that I really appreciate my PM40.

I've had my PM40 for a little over a year now. I have tried several guns during that time but I always find my way back to the PM40. My last moment of weakness was a Walther PPS 40. I picked it up this past weekend.

When I got it home I was excited. It felt like a thin Glock 19. The trigger was very Glock-like and the backstraps were a neat addition. That's where the love ended.

The next day I went shooting with a firearms instructor friend of mine. He owns a school that trains police officers and other LEO. When I pulled the gun out with pride he gasped and said that I had purchased "the plague". I told him he was crazy then proceeded to have an abysmal day of FTE's and failures to go in to battery. It wouldn't go in to battery 25% of the time with any ammo I tried and with 3 different shooters. When it did work the mag-to-grip junction pinched the hell out of my hand when I shot.

We got to talking about it and he said that the guns were "jinxed". He told me that he has literally had dozens fail in classes he was teaching. He said he has seen extractors shoot off on several and that several others have had issues with the slide seizing up to where they had to take them apart with a rubber mallet. He said that the 9mm version chokes on 147gr badly and that on a few guns he has seen the backstraps pop off and render the gun inoperable. He has written letters for them to S&W to attest to the problems.

Its really a shame because I love the Glock-like trigger and the thin profile but after the failures I had today I would never trust it.

After a few hrs of screwing around with it I pulled out my PM40. He just shook his head at the size of the gun but didn't have anything negative to say about it. He said his experience with Kahrs in his school has been "pretty reliable" and very accurate. He said the Kahrs never "fall apart" but that they are ammo-picky. I shot another 200 rounds with him and my PM40 never missed a beat. I need more mags though. Scheech

[jocko]

I sure would have to disagree with him about kahrs being ammo picky. quite the opposite...

[frank_drebin]

I sure would have to disagree with him about kahrs being ammo picky. quite the opposite...

If it helps to understand him better. He owns 25 handguns. 23 of them are Glocks.

[Bawanna]

If it helps to understand him better. He owns 25 handguns. 23 of them are Glocks.

Now thats sad. I thought I was the one that needed to get a life. Course if black tupperware is what makes your day, his life is good indeed.
I have one and its a shooter like they all are but so far I have no urge to let the rabbits populate my safe with them.

[TheTman]

Sorry for your misfortune Frank. I hope your dealer will take back and let you trade it for something more reliable. I hope I never have to go through anything like that. I'm guessing since it was a Walther you paid a pretty penny for it. You'd think if that many people were having problems with it Walther would pull it off the market.
Maybe it will take a class action lawsuit, which I hate because the lawyer gets a boatload of money while the "class" usually just gets screwed.
Experiences like yours are why I try and do lots of research on the internet and if I'm lucky other owners, before I buy any new gun. Research was the reason I'm a proud owner of a CW40 instead of a K-T PF9. While the PF9 looks real good on paper, the internet is full of horror stories regarding that gun and others from that company.
Although there is a decent chance you get one and never have trouble with it, there are way too many stories of trip after trip back to the factory for repair.
Bad news is that almost any gun you research has horror stories, seems like the folks happy with the gun don't post much. I was real happy to run into this forum while researching Kahr, and noticed a lot of folks really satisfied with their Kahr(s), then a friend let me shoot his CW45 and I was hooked on a Kahr. Good luck and I hope your story ends with a trade for something better and all ends well.

[frank_drebin]

Here's an interesting thread that shows some of the issues.

http://www.waltherforums.com/showthread.php?t=12176

[jlottmc]

Dump that chump gun, I just got a Smith SD40, awesome. Not a problem one, and the accessories interchange with the Sigma. Has a tritium front dot, and a smoother, heavier but smoother trigger than the M&P. Fits like a glove too. I just never warmed up to the Walther, really of any variety, but those in particular.

[frank_drebin]

Dump that chump gun, I just got a Smith SD40, awesome. Not a problem one, and the accessories interchange with the Sigma. Has a tritium front dot, and a smoother, heavier but smoother trigger than the M&P. Fits like a glove too. I just never warmed up to the Walther, really of any variety, but those in particular.

oh... it's dumped. I lost $20 but it's money well spent.

[mad1ben2]

Sorry for your negative experience... I had looked into the PPS a bit and those that have it and love it REALLY LOVE IT... I can't recall the forum, but they do have their own forum and, just as with other popular brands, they have their own "tricks" for getting them reliable... oh well, live and learn.

[frank_drebin]

Sorry for your negative experience... I had looked into the PPS a bit and those that have it and love it REALLY LOVE IT... I can't recall the forum, but they do have their own forum and, just as with other popular brands, they have their own "tricks" for getting them reliable... oh well, live and learn.

Yeah, I checked out the PPStalk forum. There was a thread called "Who here has NOT had their slide stop spring break?" or something similar. The owner of the forum had to send his PPS back to Walther when the slide seized back on his first range trip.

I think one of the problems with that gun is that it is really complicated. It has more parts than any three kahrs. The multiple interlocking safeties, backstrap disabler blah blah blah all really make th gun overly complicated. I like "point and click".

[Ninjatarian]

When I was shopping for my first CCW I had my mind dead set on the PPS for months(which had just come out). I drove a ways to a shop that had one in stock. Next to it was a PM40 which I never even batted an eye at before. I somehow chose the PM40 on the spot. It sounds like I may have dodged a bullet (not that it sounds like the PPS could even fire one at me). The more I look at that incredibly ugly thing the more I cant believe I almost bought one.

[Kahrcarrier]

I thought I wanted the Walther PPS too, but some internet research soon proved that the PPS sounds like a problem child that I have no time for. I really like the ergonomics for the pistol, but I read about some horror stories regarding the pistol, including the backstrap popping off and the extractor flying off while firing.:eek:

I'm thinking I'll pick one up sooner or later, but for now I'm thinking later.;)

[UTCenturion]

I hate to defend the now blacklisted gun, but if it was your first day with the thing couldn't it have been within the break in period. I had similar issues with my kahr when it was out of box new. Sometimes you can get a bad group of ammo too. So many things go into it. I'm not saying the gun was awesome, but i'ld give any gun till 300 or 400 rounds before calling it crap.

[frank_drebin]

I hate to defend the now blacklisted gun, but if it was your first day with the thing couldn't it have been within the break in period. I had similar issues with my kahr when it was out of box new. Sometimes you can get a bad group of ammo too. So many things go into it. I'm not saying the gun was awesome, but i'ld give any gun till 300 or 400 rounds before calling it crap.

Unfortunately, this one was a dog. No amount of break-in makes the backstrap stay on. No break-in period makes the extractor stay in its hole. If I was having Failure to Feed issues or other break-in issues I could have solved those. This gun is a great idea that6 has been poorly executed in my opinion.

[Kahr Carrying Infidel]

POS guns piss me off. I'm sure you were glad to rid yourself of it. What did you replace it with?

[frank_drebin]

Update:

I got the gun back from S&W today. They kept it about 7 weeks. They replaced the internals on the slide and upgraded the magazine release. It looks good and I swear the slide looks brand new now. The scratch that was on the left side is gone now. Is it even possible they would replace the slide with one that has the same serial number?

[deadhead1971]

I may have missed something...but you are coming to a conclusion based on what someone said...not what you have experienced?

Did you have problems with it?

[frank_drebin]

I may have missed something...but you are coming to a conclusion based on what someone said...not what you have experienced?

Did you have problems with it?

No, unfortunately mine wouldn't go in to battery reliably and the trigger wouldn't reset a good deal of the time. I just got it back and have handcycled 100 rounds through it fast and slow and it is much better. Before it would choke going in to battery 25% of the time. It would do it buy hand or shooting.

[jocko]

Update:

I got the gun back from S&W today. They kept it about 7 weeks. They replaced the internals on the slide and upgraded the magazine release. It looks good and I swear the slide looks brand new now. The scratch that was on the left side is gone now. Is it even possible they would replace the slide with one that has the same serial number?

serioulsy doubt it as from what I have been told is that they cannot just restamp another gun with the original serial number. I have been told by different gun companies that the original serial number lives and dies with that gun, so my bet is that they were able to buff that scratch out. Hope all workis out OK for you..

[RogerP9fan]

Hey, thanks for letting us know this. I'll be honest. I got my CW45 brand new and the trigger wouldn't reset after the first round. After my bad experience last year with a P9, I was thinking "oh great, now what gun am I gonna get to replace this CW45 that doesn't work?"
I started investigating the PPS and and heard nothing but great things. Even the famous Hickok45 loves his. I was just debating whether to get it in 9mm or .40.
Realizing I really like the size, shape and feel of the CW45..I thought..let me give Kahr a chance to get it right. Sure enough, this time, they got it right. In addition to the above mentioned the CW45 is a great shooting .45ACP (the caliber I really wanted in a single stack striker fired DAO anyway)
I'm so glad I did...this CW45 is SWEEEEEEEEEET! Hope it keeps up 100%.

Thanks again for the info. Sounds like I should forget about adding a PPS to the line up.

[frank_drebin]

I wouldn't be too hasty with that decision. It looks like S&W took good care of me. The gun is definitely better then when it left me. I think I had a bad frame/slide fit that they corrected. I'll shoot it tomorrow and report back. She may end up being my carry gun one day.

[RogerP9fan]

The PPS felt great in my hand at the store but while I was dry firing, the trigger wouldn't reset upon hand cycling the slide. It would only reset after cycling the slide twice or doing it "faster and more forcefully".
The sales guy says, "Oh, that's just part of break-in, there wouldn't be a problem if you were live firing it."
I walked away without a warm cozy feeling and started wondering if I'm just cursed when it comes to find the perfect single stack pistol.
I'm shocked by everything said about the PPS here. Goes against the Walther reputation of being one of the best gunmakers in the world.
Now that my two Kahrs are running like champs, I'm a happy camper.
But I'll add that the Glock-like trigger on the PPS attracted me too. Like everyone, I shoot Glocks really well and tend to shoot Kahrs low. Gotta practice more with the Kahr trigger.

[jocko]

rogerP9 IMO ur never gonna shoot a kahr as good as your glock, just two different trigger systems as u well know. NOt pre judging u either, I think it is more of a fact of two different guns..

IMO the samer amount of practice with each model , the glock will come out on top..

[RogerP9fan]

Thanks for your honesty jocko. I'll just aim higher with my Kahrs! ;)

[frank_drebin]

I just left the farmwhere I attempted to put at least 1 magazine of ammo downrange without a failure of some sort.

I will stand by my 1st assesment of this gun. Its a piece of ****.

Today I experienced failure to feed and failure to extract 25% of the time. I never made it through an entire magazine. This was with 3 types of ammo.

I'm done with it. It will not make it home with me. Im stopping at the first pawn shop I see and trading it.
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc81/jbabbler/GLOCK/IMG-20110708-00157.jpg

[RogerP9fan]

That indeed is an ugly sight my friend. Thank God you were not in a gunfight.
Just curious, do you have any opinion or input about the Taurus 709 Slim in 9mm? I'm hearing good things about. (The same way I was hearing good things about the PPS) Thanks again for making me aware of the reality.

[frank_drebin]

What? Ya'll thought I was kidding?
Saw a gun shop on my way home, pulled in.... left with this. We did an even swap. I took a little hit but I did so with full disclosure and a clean conscience.

I left the shop, went back to the property and used the rest of .40 rounds I had purchased for today. 100 rounds 100% perfect.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc81/jbabbler/GLOCK/XD40.jpg

[RogerP9fan]

Nice! Keep us posted if it stays 100% Very nice looking pistol. Congrats! Is it crazy snappy? Or does the PPS handle that stout .40 pretty well?

[MikeyKahr]

Good on you for the "full disclosure and a clean conscience". The next owner of that S&W thanks you.

[Big_John_1961]

Here's an interesting thread that shows some of the issues.

http://www.waltherforums.com/showthread.php?t=12176

That thread only shows a couple of individuals having issues. Most of the other posts are overwhelmingly positive.

[O'Dell]

That indeed is an ugly sight my friend. Thank God you were not in a gunfight.
Just curious, do you have any opinion or input about the Taurus 709 Slim in 9mm? I'm hearing good things about. (The same way I was hearing good things about the PPS) Thanks again for making me aware of the reality.

I had a 709 Slim 9mm 3 or 4 years ago. It was totally unreliable, and I sold it when Taurus couldn't make it right.

[jlottmc]

See I have a 740 slim, and it is flawless. Only problem I had was in getting extra magazines. I have found that it favors lighter ammo, but that's not really a problem, as everything still feeds.