I don't want to start a war, but

[O'Dell]

I looked closely today at a PM40 and another PM45. The PM40 is just enough smaller to make it about 100% easier to pocket carry. Bawanna, I already know your vote, but I'd like to get a consensus about the two pistols. I'm going to have to replace the stolen PM45, and I need some help making a decision. As far as shooting a PM40, unless one of you guys wants to drive to Georgia, I don't see that happening. I definitely want something bigger than a PM9.

[jlottmc]

Go for it. Either way you'll love it. Remember the 40 whacks more than pushes. I personally like the 40 and now have three of them, as well as three 45's. If you could sneak off the reservation for a bit, I'd be glad to let you play with my 40's.

[Rotorflyr]

I haven't had a chance to get to the range with my (new) PM45, but given a choice between a .40 and a .45, I'd go with the .45

Actually, I'd pick 9mm over .40 for that matter...just never warmed up to the .40 cal and have been thinking about getting rid of my one and only (Walther P99).

As with just about everything though, it really boils down to personal preference.

[mudfish]

I recenly made the same decision... PM40 or PM45... The 40 is definately smaller if pocket carry is a consideration! The 45 is the exact same size as the P9 which I previously owned but the 45 is slightly thicker.

I went with the PM40, no regrets. Love it!

[Bawanna]

Well you know votes are like opinions are like rear end anatomy, we all have one. If mine just happens to be the only correct one thats just blind hog luck?

Always wanted to say that, it's never come true, while I only made one mistake back in I think 1967, I've never yet been right either so I don't have much of a track record.

Dad, I sent you a PM. Check your mailbox.

[pappy42]

Bigger holes let the air and blood out faster. Short barreled compact concealment pistols may not generate the velocity needed for expanding bullets to work properly. The high pressure cartridges like the .40 S&W the .357 Sig and the .45GAP take their toll in wear and tear in any pistol of any size.

Perfect practice makes perfect performance; one can buy a lot more 9mm ammo than.40/.45. It makes far more difference in where you shoot'em than what you shoot them with.

Just the musings of an old fool.

[Bawanna]

Bigger holes let the air and blood out faster. Short barreled compact concealment pistols may not generate the velocity needed for expanding bullets to work properly. The high pressure cartridges like the .40 S&W the .357 Sig and the .45GAP take their toll in wear and tear in any pistol of any size.

Perfect practice makes perfect performance; one can buy a lot more 9mm ammo than.40/.45. It makes far more difference in where you shoot'em than what you shoot them with.

Just the musings of an old fool.

Looks like I found my old fool twin brother separated at birth. Mom said you got all the brains and I got all the good looks. For what thats worth.

I agree with every word you said.

[O'Dell]

Well you know votes are like opinions are like rear end anatomy, we all have one. If mine just happens to be the only correct one thats just blind hog luck?

Always wanted to say that, it's never come true, while I only made one mistake back in I think 1967, I've never yet been right either so I don't have much of a track record.

Dad, I sent you a PM. Check your mailbox.

Bawanna - PM sent. I didnt get yours until a hour ago. My keyboard is wet with tears.

[O'Dell]

Well, it looks like the 45 is winning. Darn, I was hoping it would go the other way, but you guys are smarter than I.

[jocko]

u notice I did not cime in either as I am a Kahr PM9 fan, all the way.

[getsome]

Hey O'Dell, sent you a PM about shooting my PM40 to see if you like it...We live pretty close and I would be happy for you to shoot it all you want...It would be nice to meet another member of the forum too...Let me know...

[Bawanna]

Hey O'Dell, sent you a PM about shooting my PM40 to see if you like it...We live pretty close and I would be happy for you to shoot it all you want...It would be nice to meet another member of the forum too...Let me know...

Even Jocko?

[mad1ben2]

I have to vote for the PM40.... packs plenty of punch and truly is significantly smaller than the PM45 if pocket carry is your objective. I have a PM9, PM40 covert, MK40, and PM45... and the PM/MK/9/40 really are noticeably smaller than the PM45 when size counts...

I too prefer the 40 over the 9... and I love the 45... but IMHO it's hard to beat the PM40 for size/weight/punch.

[jocko]

Heh, what is a PM40 COVERT?? That is a first for me..

[jocko]

Thank you Bawanna, now ur putting ol getsome on the spot!!!!!!

I'm putting my snow tires on my Harley now and I am heading out West looking for you, I will find you. There can only be one a-hole in a chair out west!!!!! and I know now you won't even hear me a comming!!!! And I am returing those pink ass grips you made for my J frame smith to!!!!!

[deadhead1971]

Pm9

6+1

[garyb]

I definitely want something bigger than a PM9.

I don't know how you can turn down an offer like that from getsome. To get an opportunity to compare all the PM models on the range is a great offer. If you "definitely want something bigger", the PM40 or PM45 are the way to go. Still very compact and great for pocket carry....I am very happy with my PM40. The bigger is less accurate thing, is simply not an issue for me when it comes to the PM40. May not be for everyone, but I shoot it just fine, enjoy shooting it and am looking forward to applying it on the IDPA courses this year. It's just me, but I've settled on the 40 and if it has a little recoil, just imagine what the other end feels like. But I'll blanket that statement by saying, "all the Kahr PM's are good". I like them all.

[Bawanna]

Thank you Bawanna, now ur putting ol getsome on the spot!!!!!!

I'm putting my snow tires on my Harley now and I am heading out West looking for you, I will find you. There can only be one a-hole in a chair out west!!!!! and I know now you won't even hear me a comming!!!! And I am returing those pink ass grips you made for my J frame smith to!!!!!

I'm crawling into my spider hole. I sent a check to your house, it its not enough let me know. I don't have any more but I'll get it.

There are actually two of us wheeled a holes, I flipped the other one off awhile ago. The good looking one, Me and him. Dangit I should kept that a secret.

[getsome]

I would be happy to show some Jawga Southern hospitality and charm to ole Jocko and would even buy him a milk shake from DQ after I take him out to the Varsity which is an Atlanta landmark drive in that is known for serving the absolute BEST chili dawgs and grease dripping onion rings in the world, guaranteed to clean a body out stem to stern in no time flat....I will do this even if he is a big fat ole blue belly yankee grouch that won't admit to the fact that the south really did win the war but with us being so nice and all, we let y'all have the trophy to save face!!!.........Wait a minute, the boss is hollering at me........I gotta go, there is a big mean looking maniac on a Harley doing donuts in the front yard.....:behindsofa:

[Bawanna]

Thanks for taking the heat off me getsome. I'm raising the periscope on my spider hole, it's crowded down here with the ghost of that Hussein fella.

He better have good snow tires on the hawg if he's a comin this way.

[Rotorflyr]

Well, it looks like the 45 is winning. Darn, I was hoping it would go the other way, but you guys are smarter than I.


Seriously?
If you were hoping it would go the other way, then you've already answered your own question and should buy the .40



Unless of course you really want the .45, which you know you do!
:behindsofa:

[O'Dell]

Thanks for all the posts, guys. I'm not in that big a hurry to move since there are so many things going on with the theft. I do still have the LCP for what that's worth. Jocko seems to be happy with the 9mm round in his PM9, so I may wait and check out the CM9 next month, before committing to anything.

[UTCenturion]

PM9 all the way for pocket carry. ANY gun larger than the pm9 is going to be an uncomfortable pocket carry unless you are willing to take it pant shopping with you. I carry mine everyday in the pocket. my 147 gr. Golden sabers expanded fine in wet newpapers. not that scientific, but its what i had handy.

[TheTman]

I really like my .40's. If the PM40 fits your pocket that much better than the .45 then I'd go with that. Less chance of leaving it home or in the car cause it won't fit what you're wearing. .45 has been my all time favorite cartridge, but IMHO the .40 gives the .45 a good run for the money. There's got to be a good reason why so many agencies have adopted it. I wouldn't feel bad with a PM9 either.

[RONDO]

O'dell PM sent.

[HadEmAll]

My take is that the .45 made its reputation in a 5" barrel. It's a good cartridge, but no more effective than the .40, especially in a sub-5" barrel, despite the "bigger is better" assumption, which is all that "bigger is better" is. The velocity figures for the .45 in a short barrel are sometimes abysmal, unless you are going +P.

If (and this is absolutely possible in several loadings) a .40 bullet expands to a larger diameter than a .45 bullet, and penetrates as deeply or deeper, then which made the bigger hole?

People dismiss the shock value of handgun rounds, but I still like muzzle energy in ft/lbs in determining a round's effectiveness.

PM40 is the better pocket pistol in my opinion.

I like the .45, but only in 4" of barrel or more.

[pappy42]

My take is that the .45 made its reputation in a 5" barrel. It's a good cartridge, but no more effective than the .40, especially in a sub-5" barrel, despite the "bigger is better" assumption, which is all that "bigger is better" is. The velocity figures for the .45 in a short barrel are sometimes abysmal, unless you are going +P.

If (and this is absolutely possible in several loadings) a .40 bullet expands to a larger diameter than a .45 bullet, and penetrates as deeply or deeper, then which made the bigger hole?

People dismiss the shock value of handgun rounds, but I still like muzzle energy in ft/lbs in determining a round's effectiveness.

PM40 is the better pocket pistol in my opinion.

I like the .45, but only in 4" of barrel or more.

The .40 depends on velocity for expansion. I am of the oppinion that higher pressure/velocity cartridges are more dependant on long(er) barrels. I think that high pressure cartridges lose any advantage faster than do lower pressure cartridges in short barrels.

The 147 gr. 9mm and 230 gr. .45ACP are still the gold standard in conveniently concealed pistols. The .40 was designed as a lower recoil alternative to the 10mm suitable for use in a 9mm size pistol, for use by men and women of smaller stature when Law Enforcement went to political correctness.

Does all that make the .40 S&W a bad cartridge? Absolutely NOT! I just do not see the need for high pressure cartridges in small pistols.

It does point out what's great about this Country; you pays your money and you makes your choice. No one gets to tell you what you must do, when it comes to buying a new pistol.

[Kahr Carrying Infidel]

I agree with Rotorflyr. It sounds like you want the 40 more than the 45. And, you really can't go wrong with either. But, if pocket carry is your primary determining factor, you go with the one that fits in your pocket the best - and that would be the 40.

[Longitude Zero]

Having shot both the 40S&W and 45ACP Kahrs, my perception is that the 45 recoils more back into my hand and the 40 has a tendency to flip upward. Not based upon testing just how each one "feels".

[Bawanna]

Having shot both the 40S&W and 45ACP Kahrs, my perception is that the 45 recoils more back into my hand and the 40 has a tendency to flip upward. Not based upon testing just how each one "feels".

I get that same feel. I you want to carry in your pocket get the 40, if you want to shoot it get the 45.

Personally and I hate myself for saying this but if I was gonna pocket carry which I ain't I'd get the PM9 or as O'Dell already mentioned wait for the CM9.

[Longitude Zero]

Don't feel bad "B" as my ankle gun is a Kahr 9mm.

[Bawanna]

My ankle gun is a PM45.

[robdnor]

I too would recommend the pm40, while it has a little more 'pop' and flip it is definitely easier to fit in the pocket. assuming your looking for something more pocketable
and since 40's are just barely cheaper than 45's you can save about $1-1.50 per box of ammo :)
also it would seem to an extent that you might be leaning toward the 40?

When i first got my pm40 i found it to be snappy but now its actually one of my favorite shooters too :D

sorry to hear you have to make another purchase based on the current situation. hope everything works out

[Catshooter]

A mini .22 derringer will fit your pocket better . . . but the PM 45 is a .45. Is there more you need to know?


Cat

[wyntrout]

A lot of guys on this forum pocket carry. Probably there are a few who do it with 1911's.

I don't understand why anyone would want to put a gun in his pocket. Unless you're standing and got your hand in your pocket, you're not going to draw before I can with my IWB carry . I wear my shirts untucked and I don't need two hands to quickly draw my CCW.

Last Thanksgiving while I was in the People's Republic of Illinois, I visited a nice gun store in Marion... large, with lots of nice goodies. I couldn't resist buying a few things that I legally could buy there... a Blackhawk pocket holster for the PM9 that I had locked up in my Motel 8 room safe... and a clearance-priced security cable.

I wanted to try pocket carry. I wear shorts ALMOST all of the time and when I put the PM9 in that holster in my pocket, it was like sticking a brick in there... maybe not the size of one, but unwieldy and it banged around... very uncomfortable. I'll stick to my easily accessible IWB carry. To each his own.

I would vote for the PM45, but it isn't for the pocket. If you want a "pocket gun", try carrying the one you want first, especially if you're new to pocket carry.

That said, I wind up carrying the P380 most of the time. On this latest trip, I wore my PM45 in an old, thin and comfortable Uncle Mike's... with the metal clip. My upper rear hip got sore and I switched to the Crossbreed and the pain stopped. The Crossbreed needs a tighter belt position and I had to loosen it for driving. On the way back, I wore the P380 in an Uncle Mike holster... one of the newer, but not better ones. I cut the protective "hood" off of all of mine and stitched them up with a hemming setting that gathered up the three layers and secured them... kind of like a store-bought finish. The hood thingy would "grab" shirt material and hold it up... printing too much.

I didn't take my Crossbreed for the P380 and the UM is easier for on and off.

JMOBO

Wynn:D

[jeepster09]

My choice is.......[and 9's don't fitt].:angel: with XS Big Dots and Mag-na-ported.

[jeepster09]

And fast becoming a new favorite......:eek: if ya feeling kinda wimpy it shoots meek 38+p's with ZERO recoil. If ya wanna be a man go for the hotteset 357's ya can find and then ya might think you are shooting one of those meek 9mm's ......:target: and it fitts in your pocket!

[Bawanna]

I'd sure like to shoot one of those just for grins. Theres a lot of sound logic in that thing, unconventional and downright scarey inside but a good plan.

[jocko]

have to agree bawanna, but damn it is so butt ugly. I guess I will stick with my ported POS PM9 that just persists in going bang all the time...

I waqsoff line about 3 days du eto badcoputer sh-t, Newsystem installed today by my son and all is well. I missed u guys..

[Bawanna]

I wondered what was up with your blatant neglect of us. I was just building a good fire and taking the blankets off the bed in preparation to send some smoke signals.

These computers are wonderful things when they work but a real nightmare when they don't. Just like everything else in life I reckon.

Send your boy out west, I need a complete computer makeover too. We'll just start from the outlet and work our way out with all new geek stuff.

[jocko]

if someone ever invents a computer that u just buy and take hme an just plug in and ur good to go they will make billions. Still took my son about 2 hours to set thedcamn computer up , downloading this crapola and then some more crapola.

[hoot]

My 2 cents: I'm dead accurate with my PM9. 3" groups at 25 yds.
Wit the Golden Sabre +P 9MM expanding on target. I don't think you'll need much more.

[Knuckler]

And fast becoming a new favorite......:eek: if ya feeling kinda wimpy it shoots meek 38+p's with ZERO recoil. If ya wanna be a man go for the hotteset 357's ya can find and then ya might think you are shooting one of those meek 9mm's ......:target: and it fitts in your pocket!

And I thought my J Frame was ugly.....:D

[kahrseye]

For what it's worth, I'd go with the PM45. I just love mine.

[Bawanna]

As part of a miserable failed attempt to make me useful to society after I got squished the state wanted to train me to be a computer programmer, quite the rage 15 years ago.
I told them I'd much rather suck out septic tanks with a straw.
I do wish I had some of you computer peoples knowlege quite often though. I try to do stuff and it ask me questions about things I don't even know what they are talking about.
My favorite, do you want to run or save. Crap I don't know, your the crystal ball just make it happen. You know what I want, give it to me.

[Rotorflyr]

if someone ever invents a computer that u just buy and take hme an just plug in and ur good to go they will make billions. Still took my son about 2 hours to set thedcamn computer up , downloading this crapola and then some more crapola.


Someone did, and as has been mentioned already they're called Mac's...:p

[Sliebl]

My favorite, do you want to run or save. Crap I don't know, your the crystal ball just make it happen. You know what I want, give it to me.
I enjoyed that! That's almost tag line worthy. :D

[earle8888]

For what ever it's worth, my 2 cents---I spent years with a Seven-Trees IWB and #19 RB S&W. I stopped carrying for a few more years, tried the old one, WoW, I found it very uncomfortable, my body shape had changed!!!! Tried the same style w/ P45CTL, same discomfort. Have been carrying in pocket PM40CTL not problems, except, I forget I have it some times and have to quietly leave and store it in the car, Stupid rules. Trying a SOB and full size 1911, very comfortable, even in car, accessible while sitting, BUT requires sport coat length coat for concealment .

[O'Dell]

As part of a miserable failed attempt to make me useful to society after I got squished the state wanted to train me to be a computer programmer, quite the rage 15 years ago.
I told them I'd much rather suck out septic tanks with a straw.
I do wish I had some of you computer peoples knowlege quite often though. I try to do stuff and it ask me questions about things I don't even know what they are talking about.
My favorite, do you want to run or save. Crap I don't know, your the crystal ball just make it happen. You know what I want, give it to me.

I used to program back in the eighties but back then it was mostly Fortran. I never got into Windows C++, because I was mainly a hardware guy. I still own a computer company, but it's mostly defunked because computers are so cheap now, I can't make any money building them. I still build a state-of-the-art system every six to eight month for myself and maybe four or five high-end gaming systems a year.