Brass Cleaning

[mr surveyor]

Having fairly recently dipped my toes into the reloading pool, I've been taking it slow and deliberate, particularly focusing on the details. Having used only once fired brass, from my own guns, I haven't been doing much more than just wiping off the residue and cleaning the primer pockets after depriming. I really didn't want the hassle of another handy-dandy counter top appliance (tumbler) or the mess of keeping up with the media, and really wanted to see more of the residue from the inside of the cases removed than what I've seen with tumblers. One of my running buddies suggested a name brand chemical dip made specifically for "de-gunking" spent brass and I was seriously considering trying that. Then while parusing through some supply catalogues the ever present adds for ultra-sonic cleaners finally caught my attention and re-lit the tiny candle (no light bulb here) in the dark, cobweb infested recesses of my brain cavity. I have, and have had since 1983, an ultrasonic cleaner that was used for cleaning drafting pens until I finally retired all the conventional drafting equipment in 1995. So, the other day while procrastinating on actually doing paying work in the middle of the day, I pulled out the long forgotten tool. It would only hold about 40 9mm cases or 22 .357 cases at a time, but 15-20 minute zingy bath with the old pen cleaning solution had the brass looking new outside..and got all but a few small specks of residue from the inside. Before I knew it I had cleaned 200 of the recycled 9mm cases and 60 .357 cases. It is small, but since I'm not getting into mass production, and it's sooooo easy (plus I already had the ultra-sonic cleaner and solution), I'm a happy camper:). Just rinse, air dry and they are ready to go!


surv

[MW surveyor]

Always good to hear about a successful new re-purpose. Just be careful that the solution does not have any ammonia in it. Supposedly weakens the brass.

[Sliebl]

Good deal on repurposing an existing inventory item! :D

I bought a Frankford Arsenal tumbler kit, with media separator, and it works quite well, if you ever decide to get that new counter top appliance that you are trying to avoid. :) I've been using crushed walnut shells (from the pet store; sold as lizard bedding) with great results. This thing is cheap to buy, and cheap to run as far as the media goes. I've cleaned as many as 350-400 9mm cases at a time in 30-45 minutes (or longer if I want them ultra shiny).

I just noiced the two posters above me... very similar name, eh?
:confused:

[MW surveyor]

Sliebl,

I carry the same screen name on a couple of other forums so I don't get confused. Also why I have the "other" surveyor in my sig lines.

Also, have the same kit and it works well for me. Use a bit (cap full) of NuFinish and they get real shiny. I did the same thing as mr surveyor for about 1,000 rounds and then said the heck with this!

[Sliebl]

How often do you add the polish? I have been using some Maguires polish that I had on hand (another successful repurposing?) and it works well. I add a decent squirt to the crushed walnut about every 4 or 5 uses. I don't change the walnut until it seems to take too long to do an effective cleaning (15-20 uses?). I should change it more often, since it's so darn cheap.

[OldLincoln]

I use nu-Finish and it does well, but read customer reports on the Flitz Casing Cleaner that claim it does better than Nu-Finish in about half the time. I may give that a try someday. If I had thousands of brass to clean on a steady basis I would go chemical bath.

Another better solution for really shiny brass is to barrel tumble it in stainless steel media. I think it's Tumbler that makes a unit with rubber walls that is quieter than a vibrator and the media is small enough to clean inside the casings shown, but don't recall what they said about 9mm.

[MW surveyor]

I don't know how long the media has been in the shaker! Seems to just keep cleaning but then again, I usually forget that I have it running :). As you say, it's cheap and I guess I should dump what's in there and reload it with fresh stuff.

I add a cap full about every other cleaning. Then again I'm cleaning at least 300 9mm at a time. Range pick ups are a good thing.

That Flitz stuff sounds like it works but I figure that since my shaker probably runs longer than it should, I'll keep using the NuFinish until I run out of it.

I did see some posts on other forums regarding stainless steel media. I'm cheap and so is the critter litter.

[OldLincoln]

I forgot my tumbler also so I bought a $10 timer at radio shack that works perfectly for me. Now I can do 1 more load at night if I want, just set it and forget it.

[garyb]

I am new to reloading too. In fact, so new that my order for a Hornady LNL press and dies have not even come in yet. I spoke to Hornady last week and asked specifically about the sonic cleaner. They advised me that the sonic cleaners are not intended to replace the tumblers, but are used in conjunction with them. Therefore, I decided to start with a tumbler and perhaps later consider a sonic cleaner. I also read a thread or product review somewhere, of someone complaining that the sonic did not remove something or other. The advice was to also use the tumbler with the sonic cleaner. That's about all I know about this issue right now, but I'm always listening and trying to gather info, so I can do the right thing when reloading time comes.

[MW surveyor]

garyb,

I saw your posts regarding the Hornady LNL but didn't respond as I do not know enough about it. Like I've said before, I'm cheap so the Lee stuff works for me and very well as a matter of fact.

There are a number of people here that can guide you through the set up of your equipment. Also, I can recommend to you the reloading sites at Ruger.net, The Firing Line and cast bullets. Especially the stickies in the firing line reloading forum.

It isn't rocket science but you can get hurt if you don't follow directions. Go slow at first and maintain a healthy dose of anal compulsiveness.

I believe that the sonic cleaners will not remove any minor surface scratches as the vibratory or tumblers will, or at least make them less noticeable. I'm also not sure of how long the cases will stay shiny. There is a display at my local reloading equipment shop with cases that have been cleaned using the ultrasonic cleaner. They are clean but not real shiny.

+1 on the timer OldLincoln. Got a few laying around "somewhere" in the garage. Almost time for the annual "clean out the garage day". Or at least straighten it up.

[garyb]

MW Surveyor,
Understood. No doubt that the Lee is good too. It was a tough decision, particularly because my 3 buddies who reload, each use a different reloader and have different pros and cons. None of them use the LNL. My order is placed and I am very confident that they all will do the job. I had specific reasons why I selected the LNL, but I don't know with certainty how it will play out. I do know that it will work well.

As for being a rookie, I respect your words of caution. I won't take any chances and will make certain that I am doing it right. I will read and study. My 3 local buddies who reload will absolutely help me, right out of the gate. I appreciate your input and advice. Always willing to learn. Tx.

[mr surveyor]

just thought I would add a pic for the sceptics:D

this batch of 9mm brass is a mix of once fired, twice fired and three times fired. I think you can see down inside a few of them and notice they are pretty darned clean inside as well as out. Absolutely NO crud, and the primer pockets and flash holes need no extra attention.


http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b345/cowpi/CLEANBRASS.jpg

just wanted to give a visual reference:)

surv

[OldLincoln]

Man, those are FILTHY!! Send them to me and I'll get them OL clean and send them all back. Maybe it's the Nu-finish that get's mine shiny but it also keeps them shiny. After shooting them I only need a couple hours and they are back. The casings are a little slippery also ("slippery little suckers" Julia Roberts - Pretty Woman),

[mr surveyor]

by the time they get a touch of lube, them slam hammered into the re-sizing die, they ain't all that shiney no mo tho. I just load em, wipe em off with a damp rag and they're good to go bang.

[garyb]

just thought I would add a pic for the sceptics:D


this batch of 9mm brass is a mix of once fired, twice fired and three times fired. I think you can see down inside a few of them and notice they are pretty darned clean inside as well as out. Absolutely NO crud, and the primer pockets and flash holes need no extra attention.

Mr Surveyor,
What did you use to clean that brass? Tumble or Sonic, or both? Just curious. Tx.

[Sliebl]

this batch of 9mm brass is a mix of once fired, twice fired and three times fired. I think you can see down inside a few of them and notice they are pretty darned clean inside as well as out. Absolutely NO crud, and the primer pockets and flash holes need no extra attention.
As mentioned before, I just began reloading early last year, but have reloaded several thousand (maybe 3000) 9mm rounds thus far.

There are many schools of thought as to what prep steps are necessary for reloading 9mm. I do the following:

I keep my brass sorted by manufacturer (for the most part... I'm not too anal retentive about an extra piece of range brass getting mixed in! :D)
I keep the rounds sorted by # of times loaded (basically "lots" of cases).
I have never cleaned the primer pocket on the 9mm brass
This is really very easy to accomplish, as I initially bought about 4000 once fired mixed brass cases, and cleaned/sorted them all. Then I began reloading just the Winchester brass to make keeping track easier. I try to shoot all of the once loaded brass first, prior to shooting any of the twice loaded rounds. This allows me to easily keep the "lots" together.

After a range day, I just pop the brass in my tumbler until it's clean, then into a ziplock bag with # of times loaded on the outside.

When it's time to load more rounds, I just grab the bag with the fewest # of reloads and get to loading. I have some 9mm brass with 6 reloads and have only found a few that have started to crack. Obviously, those go in the trash, and the lot gets carefully sorted at that point to check for more. I don't discard the entire "lot" at that point, as some suggest, but do check them more carefully.


I don't lube the cases at all for 9mm. After installing a nice clean case in the press, I don't take it out again until it's finished. I use the Lee Classic Cast Turret press to do the following:

Die #1 : Punch out the primer, and size the case, install new primer
Die #2 : Slight flare to case mouth, powder drop
Die #3 : Seat the bullet to correct length
Die #4 : Take out flare and add a very slight taper crimp
Repeat 199 more times this hour. Finished rounds go in 50 or 100 round plastic flip-top ammo box with a label on the outside.
Label indicates the following:
Date, Caliber, Bullet & Weight, Powder & Weight, Die # for powder, Primer, Case brand, and number of times loaded. Labels are easy to print out by the sheet, and you only need to fill out the info that actually changes.

Sorry to sort of get your thread off track, but I thought I'd share my reloading method with you guys.

[MW surveyor]

Going off track is what we do here! And --GASP!---BUY BRASS---?

I used to do what you do as far as keeping track of number of times loaded. Now I don't cause I can not pick up anything that goes beyond the firing line where I shoot. I just give the cases a good inspection and move on. I do label what the load is and when loaded. Use a spread sheet for the other details plus comment section. Used to prime on the press, but now prime off the press with a hand primer. Gives me another inspection point and also something to do in the evening.

[mr surveyor]

I do carefully keep up with my own rifle and revolver brass, but it's just for documentation, or in the case of the rifle brass it being fire formed for my chamber. After all, you're gonna keep using it until it shows signs of fatigue that could lead to a failure. There is no exact number of re-uses that record keeping will necessitate taking brass out of the cycle - you use it until it can't be safely used again, then you sell for scrap. It is interesting to know how much money you can save on loading by multiple uses of brass, but if it's free, range pick-up, who cares. As for semi-auto brass, and keeping close records????? unless I have the range completely to myself (which is occassionally possible), there is no way I can keep my brass completely seperate from the other shooters' brass. As long as my range stays open, I will not have a need to seek an outside source of 9mm brass... as long as I can beat the other brass scroungers to it:D


surv

[MW surveyor]

surv,

I'm with you on this. If I went on a weekend or holiday, I can clean up on just the suff that makes it in back of the shooters. Week days, I go through the 5 gallon buckets. Keeping up with the semi-auto stuff got to be a real pain since at least three times of what I pick up is once fired. Now if I were shooting a rifle, that's different. I'd keep meticulous records.

If I see some one shooting a revolver either 38 or 357 I ask them if they reload. If they don't I give them a bag and ask them to put their empties in. Haven't been refused yet!

Since I use range pickups I don't figure in the cost of the case. Seem to average about 8 to 9 cents per round.