Just when you think these clowns can't get any worse [Archive]

aray

03-04-2011, 02:23 PM

This is unbelievable.

First, the Obama Administration allows straw-man purchases of automatic weapons to be exported into Mexico, arguably against the law, and with full knowledge of the BATFE: http://video.foxnews.com/v/4567155/anti-gun-efforts-at-border-under-fire (http://video.foxnews.com/v/4567155/anti-gun-efforts-at-border-under-fire)

One of those guns is now known to have been used to kill Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry in December.

But now the other shoe drops: those same first responders were directed from above to use non-lethal beanbags (!) against armed illegal aliens carrying AKs, one of whom killed agent Terry in response: http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_681d29cf-845a-5aea-9f34-3837d70b8a31.html (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_681d29cf-845a-5aea-9f34-3837d70b8a31.html)

Finally, material witnesses to this murder were quickly deported out of the country, before any trial could be held – indeed before the prosecution even knows for sure who the killer was! When is the last time ICE ever moved that fast to deport illegal aliens, eh?

Oh yes, well maybe I sorta recall another similar incident: when the Obama Administration arrested the Russian spies last year and the State Department hit the “reset button” and sent them packing - before they had even been fully interrogated to determine if there are any *other* Russian spies in the US.

But I digress. The big story is the Administration’s policy of knowingly, and against the advice of their agents, allowing weapons to be illegally exported to drug and immigration gangs in violation of the law, followed by a stupid policy that handcuffs Border Patrol agents to first use beanbags against armed illegal aliens carrying automatic weapons – all culminating in the death of a fine LEO.

Sad.

Kingcreek

03-04-2011, 03:41 PM

yup. what do people expect when you put a community organizer in charge of a country?

aray

03-04-2011, 04:37 PM

Another good report on the BATFE program which encouraged the sales: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7357550n

I don't expect the DoJ will investigate this - AG Holder has no credibility. Hopefully various oversight committees in the House of Representatives will hold hearings and issue subpeonas. If so we'll see if the Obama Administration will invoke Executive Privilege or not.

Dietrich

03-04-2011, 04:57 PM

Why use beanbags against armed illegal aliens? Why not just give them the finger and fart in their general direction?If I were a member of the Border Patrol I`d be seriously looking for other employment.If their higher-ups are telling them to use beanbags against armed thugs then the higher-ups should be the ones with their lives on the line.This administration is a joke.Unfortunately,the joke isn`t funny.At all.

gkstemple

03-04-2011, 05:00 PM

The Thousands of guns ATF assured would walk WILL be "traced from crime scenes" and used to ram thru additional controls directed against legal owners and the retailers who were ordered by ATF to complete the sales. Hope the dealers have documented each and every one of those demands by ATF.

Somebody DIRECTED those dealers, field agents and their supervisors to let those guns walk. They need to be held responsible for the illegality of the sales they insisted be allowed and for not stopping the flow of those guns across an international border.

If this is a nation of laws, then it needs to apply to ALL citizens. Stupidity and Zeal are dangerous bedfellows, as well as not being a viable defense against prosecution.

REACT

03-04-2011, 06:24 PM

But wait, there's more...

ATF Looking to “Maximize Effectiveness” As Gunwalker Hits MSM (http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/03/robert-farago/atf-looking-to-maximize-effectiveness-as-gunwalker-hit-msm/)

The Truth About Guns (TTAG) has been all over this scandal. Click on the light gray "Older posts" link(s) at the bottom of each page to more.

http://thetruthaboutguns.com/

jimbar

03-04-2011, 11:40 PM

The clown that occupies the White House now has surrounded himself with,(and put in very high offices), people who are just like him. His buddy Holder the supposed highest ranking law enforcement officer in the country, has said he wouldn't feel right prosecuting "his people" when referring to the black panther members who intimidated voters right at the door of a voting precint office. He's sure not going to go after the illegal aliens trying to take over our southern states.
He really meant what he said when he said he would "fundamently change the country". Most people didn't think he meant change it to a socialist country.
God help us if he gets re-elected in 2012 !

aray

03-05-2011, 01:33 AM

I'm wondering if there isn't still more to this story than we've heard so far. In particular fully automatic AKs are quite expensive in this country. But they're mass produced overseas (China, etc.) and readily available in bulk from international weapons dealers. Why would anyone pay 10x for this and risk prosecution in the US to boot? Certainly members of Los Zetas and other drug cartels would just pick them up elsewhere?

Pure speculation only: I hope, nay pray, that the Obama Administration did not compound its errors by creating a gun "honey pot" by artificially reducing the price of the weapons specifically to attract the clientele they were seeking. Please say there is another explanation for the data...

aray

03-28-2011, 02:47 PM

Update on Project Gunrunner today on Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/28/obama-administration-mounting-pressure-botched-gun-trafficking-investigation/

getsome

03-28-2011, 03:28 PM

My LGS was involved in a lawsuit filed by the City of New York a couple years ago due to some guns sold by them ending up being used in crimes in N.Y. City...Now how in the world can a gun shop owner have any way of knowing what will happen to a gun sold legally with the proper forms filled out by the buyer and a backround check being done and all showing as a good sale... If I own a car dealership and somebody comes in and wants to buy a new car and they have the money, proof of insurance and a valid license but if after the sale is completed that person gets in a drunk driving accident and kills someone am I the car dealer some how at fault?...I mean come on this is ludicrous....The Gun Shop was able to beat the case but at a very high cost in legal bills which almost drove them out of business which may be the whole idea in the first place!!!...

Willieboy

03-28-2011, 08:19 PM

This is, without a doubt, the worst administration I've ever seen.

aray

03-29-2011, 12:43 PM

To quote former Senator Howard Baker of Watergate fame: "What did the President know, and when did he know it?"

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20047027-10391695.html

ltxi

03-30-2011, 09:08 PM

This is, without a doubt, the worst administration I've ever seen.

Nah....not yet but they're working on it. Current cup holder, imo, is Clinton/Gore.

johnh

03-31-2011, 07:52 AM

ltxi

03-31-2011, 08:05 PM

Don't forget Jimmy Carter. What a joke. I still remember him telling us all to turn the thermostats down to 65 and wear a sweater if we got cold. Then there was the whole illegal Panama Canal treaty. He should have been put on trial for that one, but I suppose President Reagan was being practical in letting it go.

You are absolutely correct. Bad on me for letting that one slip by. I remember the day he was elected. I was driving south from home in NH to my job at Hanscom, listening to the radio, and thinking we were totally screwed. Was I ever, unfortunately, right about that. I remember being able to sell my house in Nashua at a premium in late 1978 because I had a transferable 8% mortgage which my realtor pointed out was a rate that might not ever be seen again. Double digit inflation, 22% car loans, etc, etc....what a great time!

gkstemple

03-31-2011, 10:51 PM

MikeyKahr

03-31-2011, 11:02 PM

Just when you think these clowns can't get any worse

aray, I've got a bone to pick with you. How dare you give clowns such a bad name!? :32:I don't think clowns would have done half of the idiotic things that we've witnessed with the "Change we can believe in".

jlottmc

04-02-2011, 10:28 AM

This isn't just about a "botched??" gun trafficing investigation, folks.

Given that there was no coordination with Mexican Authorities, and that US Agents can not operate armed south of the border, it's likely more about getting larger numbers of guns into Mexico that would soon be "crime guns traced to sales made by dealers in the border states!" Of course that would mean Action Would Have To Be Taken.

The deaths caused by cartell members shooting each other and innocent Mexican citizens is a price the architects of Project "Fast and Furious/Gun Runner/Gun Walker"
are willing to pay to gain a bit of leverage toward pushing for restrictions on our second amendment rights.

Sickening.

Gary

That was the take I had on things as well. I'd been saying that, but seems things like this fall on deaf ears. Oh well.
Personally, I'm wondering when and how this one's time ends (impeachment on pick a couple or more of his SNAFU's, civil war, or something else). One thing is fairly certain, without lots of fraud and deception, he's a one timer.

jocko

04-02-2011, 11:21 AM

jlottmc

04-02-2011, 11:34 AM

What I want to know is why he feels the need to pipe up since this idiot got elected. Didn't hear anything from him for many years, now this moron gets elected, and all of a sudden Jimmy Carter is popping off at the mouth at every turn. didn't even happen with Clinton (who was a terrible CIC, and the reason I feel for our current Warriors.)

jocko

04-02-2011, 12:56 PM

u answered your own question. HE IS AN IDIOT... I think he really feels when Jimmy talks PEOPLE LISTEN!!!

aray

04-06-2011, 11:22 AM

Chuck Norris weighs in on this issue: http://townhall.com/columnists/chucknorris/2011/04/05/fast_and_furious_white_house_gun_control/page/full/
and on guns & Obama in general: http://townhall.com/columnists/chucknorris/2011/03/29/obama_triangulates_on_gun_control/page/full/

aray

04-11-2011, 02:49 PM

Latest developments. ATF stonewalling Congressional investigation? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/11/grassley-questions-atf-blocking-gunrunning-probe/

crazymailman

04-11-2011, 03:34 PM

jlottmc

04-12-2011, 12:35 PM

Perhaps, I'm just wondering when the calls to dissolve the ATF are going to come true. Carter wow, maybe you're right mail man. Then again, I served under Clinton (got a trip to Bosnia right about the time a certain dress was ruined out of that one), and haven't held much of an opinion for the lot of them.

aray

04-13-2011, 11:08 AM

Another interesting article from Chuck Norris: http://townhall.com/columnists/chucknorris/2011/04/12/gun_owners_guide_to_the_2012_election/page/full/ He's turning out to be quite articulate.

Add to that the Obama campaign team have announced that they plan to raise one billion dollars for his reelection, and well you can see the stakes are very high and everyone is going to have to work very hard over the next 1.5 years...

getsome

04-13-2011, 02:01 PM

I never gave much thought to Chuck Norris except as a bad cartoon TV actor who happened to be very good at the Martial Arts and for being the person responsible for all those Chuck Norris jokes but after listening to him do a radio interview with Sean Hannity recently I found out that he is very politically active for the Republican right wing (unlike most Hollywood types) and he is a very intelligent, articulate man...The interview was about The Fair Tax and he was very informed about the details of it and extremely supportive of the legislation....I was also not aware that he was 71 years old...:eek:...the guy looks maybe 45 or 50 at the most...

Bawanna

04-13-2011, 02:07 PM

Chuck is 71?:eek: Say it ain't so!

jocko

04-13-2011, 03:19 PM

I just wanna know that when chuck and Christie Brinkley made all those excercise videos. did he playy carpenter with her and n--l her???

getsome

04-13-2011, 04:52 PM

There was one video I saw where Christie went to the Dentist played by Chuck.... I think the title was "Christie's needing some drilling and a filling"....:001_tt2:...:banplease:

johnh

04-14-2011, 07:44 AM

I have a feeling Chuck is testing the waters for a possible run for office. More power to him! His description at the bottom of his column cracked me up: "Chuck Norris is a columnist and impossible to kill." :D When he becomes president, Chuck Norris guards the Secret Service. :cool:

aray

04-19-2011, 10:32 AM

Update: http://michellemalkin.com/2011/04/19/project-gunrunner-update-atf-ignored-warnings-doj-ignores-document-requests/

Highlights:

1. DoJ so far continues to stonewall Congressional requests for information.

2. Even the gun dealers were pleading with the ATF on this issue. Emails from the gun dealers to the ATF have been turned over to Senator Grassley, expanding the list of whistleblowers (front-line ATF agents and now gun dealers) who are all telling a consistent story.

3. Even though a specific Assistant U.S. Attorney was clearly involved in this the DoJ continues to maintain that DoJ and the ATF did not know or sanction these actions.

aray

04-19-2011, 11:01 AM

Follow-up: this is the part that gets me the most - a subset from one of the emails from the gun shop owner to the ATF:

"I want to help ATF with its investigation but not at the risk of agents safety because I have some very close friends that are US Border Patrol agents in southern AZ as well as my concern for all the agents safety that protect our country." (http://michellemalkin.cachefly.net/michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/gunwalking_emails_041411.pdf)

That was written on June 17th 2010. Border Patrol Agent and hero Brian Terry was not gunned down until December 14th - six months later.

At Terry's funeral, one of his closest friends read a note Terry had written about himself:

"If today is the day, so be it. If you seek to do battle with me this day, you will receive the best that I am capable of giving. You may kill me, but I'm willing to die if necessary. I do not fear death for I have been close enough to it on enough occasions that it no longer concerns me. What I do fear is the loss of my honor and would rather die fighting than have it said that I was without courage."

Compounding the horror, Terry's self-written eulogy turned out not to be true insofar as he was prevented from giving “the best that [he] was capable of giving”. As reported previously, the agents were instructed to use bean bags first, against the thugs that gunned him down using AKs obtained from Project Gunnrunner.

CarlCyrus

04-20-2011, 07:58 PM

It took me a while to figure that one out, and when I did I LMAO.

Better watch out or the PC Police will get you.

Carl

aray

04-21-2011, 04:04 PM

So here's the most recent actions:

Congressional investigations under Congressman Issa (R-CA) asks for DoJ/BATFE documents related to Project Gunrunner and Fast & Furious.

The requests were ignored.

On March 31 BATFE Acting Director Kenneth Melson (an Obama political appointee) was sent a House Oversight Committee Congressional subpoena with a due date of April 13th.

The subpoena was ignored.

Yesterday Chairman Issa sent the following letter to A/D Melson which concluded with the language: "I am hereby informing you that the Committee intends to enforce the subpoena issued to you on March 31, 2011. If you do not comply with the subpoena, the Committee will be forced to commence contempt proceedings."

Criminal charges for the political leader of the BATFE? :w00t:

http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/4-20-11_Melson_Follow_up_letter.pdf

Elections have consequences. No way Elijah Cummings (D-MD and Ranking Minority Member) would have allowed a subpoena had he retained his Chairman role held up through the last election.

(Blast from the past: "What did the President know, and when did he know it?")

aray

04-22-2011, 03:00 PM

Sadly I have to report that the situation is worse yet.

One of the Project Gunrunner guns has been linked to the death of a second law enforcement officer. ICE Special Agent Jaime Zapata was killed and his partner Victor Aivla were killed as they drove between Monterrey and Mexico City on 2/15/2011. The Zeta cartel is believed to be responsible for the shooting. And now one of the guns has been tied to Project Gunrunner. See for example: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gunrunners-mexico/updates/2011/03/romanian-ak-47-pistol-used-in-slaying-of-ice-agent.html

So two officers down, Border Patrol agents forced to use bean bags to defend their lives, dunno if you saw on the news this week Border Patrol agents have been instructed not to arrest but to just turn illegal aliens back south without apprehension, multiple whistleblowers are all saying the same thing that these decisions were being made at the top of the DoJ, and Obama, Holder, and the BATFE refusing to cooperate in a Congressional investigation.

I hate updating this thread. Makes me ill. But turning on the lights and watching the cockroaches run has got to be done.

aray

04-22-2011, 03:09 PM

P.S. I wonder how many Mexican nationals have been killed by Project Gunrunner guns? While we can and should be sad about the loss of two brave US LEO heros, one can only imagine the carnage the Zetas and others have inflicted upon their own citizens in their own country. It's not hard to find news stories about mayors, police chiefs, front-line police, and even just normal citizens along the drug routes losing their lives because they were in the way of the drug cartels. Thousands. Life is just meaningless to them. Tragic.

gkstemple

04-25-2011, 09:46 PM

News has it that the Government of Mexico has hired a lawfirm to sue the Firearms Manufacters of "crime guns" traced to US origins.

Seems to me they should instead be trying to sue the BATFE and demanding extratition of those BATFE/DOJ/USAG personnel responsible for allowing the arms trafficing across an international border. But then again, I am not a lawyer and am not dispensing legal advice to the Mexican Government.

Gary

aray

06-09-2011, 06:32 PM

Looks like we'll get some more news on this next week. Congressional hearings will be held then:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/09/justice-officials-in-panic-mode-as-new-testimony-is-expected-to-reveal-depth/

aray

06-29-2011, 01:31 PM

Living up to the low standards I have come to expect of the Washington comPost, they now claim that Operation Fast & Furious is the NRA's fault:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2011/06/21/AGaGOcmH_story.html

That's right, it is not the fault of the people who allowed automatic assault weapons to illegally walk to Mexico through straw purchasers, nor the higher ups in the Obama Administration who planned and authorized Gunrunner / Fast & Furious, nor the corrupt Mexican government that allows & encourages illegal immigration and/or accepts bribes from the drug smugglers, nor from the druggies themselves. Nope. It's all our fault. Only in liberal land would this sort of logic make any sense at all.

gkstemple

06-30-2011, 09:21 PM

Welll, the President of the United States said at a press conference that his Attorney General has said that HE (the AG) did not order the trafficing of guns into Mexico.

Two questions, put 'em in any order you want:

1. Who DID order it?
2. How did the trafficing happen without any order to do so?

There are many things about Operation Fast and Furious that just do not pass the smell test. Could it be that Very High-Level government officials on BOTH sides of the border are complicit in a scheme to eliminate the Second Amendment Rights of U.S. citizens? Is this the "under-the-radar" gun control effort being whispered about from the Obama Administration to the gun-control crowd?

Yes, we do indeed live in interesting times.

Gary

crazymailman

06-30-2011, 09:38 PM

The NRA has an interesting story on this and a petition to try to get Eric Holder fired. Doubt it will work, but worth a shot.

https://www.nra.org/fireholder/Background.aspx

JFootin

06-30-2011, 10:34 PM

The NRA has an interesting story on this and a petition to try to get Eric Holder fired. Doubt it will work, but worth a shot.

https://www.nra.org/fireholder/Background.aspx

Well, Holder ought to get fired for ordering no action against black people doing voter intimidation. He and Janet Reno both need to be in jail!

crazymailman

07-01-2011, 06:00 AM

JFootin, where in western NC are you located?

JFootin

07-01-2011, 06:45 AM

Burnsville.

gkstemple

07-14-2011, 06:58 PM

July 11 Letter to AG Holder from Congressman Issa and Senator Grassley lists TWELVE (12) "senior officials at the DOJ . . . that were unquestionably aware of the implementation of this reckless program." They're asking for all records relating to communications between and among (the listed 12) regarding Operation Fast and Furious. By July 18.

Read more at http://tucsoncitizen.com/view-from-baja-arizona/2011/07/13/isaa-and-grassley-zero-in-on-attorney-generals-staff/

jeepster09

07-14-2011, 10:11 PM

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/39946.jpg

aray

08-11-2011, 10:36 AM

The US Attorney's Office has ruled that Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, gunned down because illegal alien drug smugglers had automatic weapons illegally supplied to them with the knowledge and participation by the BATFE, and also because it was department policy was for agents to use non-lethal force (bean bags) first - the AG's Office has ruled that Terry is "not a crime victim".

See:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/11/us-attorneys-office-rejects-family-slain-border-patrol-agent-as-crime-victims/

Jeremiah/Az

08-11-2011, 02:37 PM

Why is there a case against Jamie Avila, when his actions were condoned &/or requested by the BATF? edit: to correct typo.

crazymailman

08-11-2011, 04:09 PM

There always has to be a fall guy.

aray

08-11-2011, 04:21 PM

Why is there a case against Jamie Avila, when his actions were condoned &/or requested by the ATF?

Avila was the buyer & the mule who got the guns into Mexico (or one of them anyway). The requested & condoned actions were for the gun store owner sellers who detected illegal activities, notified the BATFE, but were told to make the sales anyway, despite the fact that these were obvious and illegal straw-man purchases.

Jeremiah/Az

08-11-2011, 06:25 PM

Thank you for the clarification.

Sure sounds like some people are trying to cover their backside.:eek:

aray

09-07-2011, 09:41 AM

Sadly, Fast & Furious / Gunrunner might have now expanded into the BATFE smuggling grenades into Mexico:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/09/06/mexico-says-us-man-smuggled-grenade-parts-for-sinaloa-cartel/

aray

11-30-2011, 01:35 PM

I really hate posting to this thread because it's never good news.

Fox News is now reporting that all of the Fast and Furious whistleblowers got punished in their careers, while all of the managers in charge have been promoted or given higher responsibilities. It provides a by-name list and what has happened to all of them:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/11/30/fast-and-furious-whistleblowers-struggle-six-months-after-testifying-against/