PM45 Fail to Feed 3rd Round

[phelptwan]

I got my PM45 in January. I followed Jocko's prep thread (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1521) to a T, and the first 100 or so rounds were golden (note, my pm45 did have a notch, but it had a flap of metal just kind of sitting in it attached by a little tag end that i just removed by hand, no tools needed). After that I started developing problems.

Basically the 2nd round off a mag always 3 point jams. Happens like clockwork. I've got 6 mags and it does it on every one. I thought it might have something to do with the 4th post here (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1612) but I'm not sure. I'm about 300 rounds in now and the issue is still happening.

What should I do?

[pappy42]

I got my PM45 in January. I followed Jocko's prep thread (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1521) to a T, and the first 100 or so rounds were golden (note, my pm45 did have a notch, but it had a flap of metal just kind of sitting in it attached by a little tag end that i just removed by hand, no tools needed). After that I started developing problems.

Basically the 2nd round off a mag always 3 point jams. Happens like clockwork. I've got 6 mags and it does it on every one. I thought it might have something to do with the 4th post here (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1612) but I'm not sure. I'm about 300 rounds in now and the issue is still happening.

What should I do?

Contact Kahr, request an RMA and shipping label. If they suggest a different course of action; such as sending you easily replaced parts; then I would do that.

[Bawanna]

Usually that 4th post you mention regarding the lack of the bevel only occurs with the first round. Usually when the slide fully retracts under recoil it picks up the next round.

Are your failure to feeds leaving you with an empty chamber like the slide is running over the cartridge and leaving it behind or a jamb of some sort?

You can easily check for the need for that bevel by just locking the slide back and inserting full magazine. See if the rim of the case hits on the slide or slides by or sometimes hits and then slips by, evidenced by a crunch tick kind of sound. The bevel, easy to do yourself would cure that if in fact that is the case.

[jocko]

I think your magazine follower is hitting the magazine releas ebutton which is in that hole in the magazine.What you can do is put some wax or something on that follower on the side that could make contact with the magazine release button and load the magazine and then manually eject each round and then push the follower down until you can see it in that little window cut out in the magazine. See then if the was or what ever u put there has been disturbed by the magazine release button. If so, cal lkahr and get a new mag button and or pull the magazine apart and sand that little part of the follower that is making contact with the mag button. It almost has to be magazine related being it is doing it on the 3rd round, which IMO would put that follower about right in the opening and being held up by the mag button wil lindeed cause ftf

[phelptwan]

Usually that 4th post you mention regarding the lack of the bevel only occurs with the first round. Usually when the slide fully retracts under recoil it picks up the next round.

Are your failure to feeds leaving you with an empty chamber like the slide is running over the cartridge and leaving it behind or a jamb of some sort?

You can easily check for the need for that bevel by just locking the slide back and inserting full magazine. See if the rim of the case hits on the slide or slides by or sometimes hits and then slips by, evidenced by a crunch tick kind of sound. The bevel, easy to do yourself would cure that if in fact that is the case.

It's a three point jam/stem bind. Top of the round is jammed in the barrel, bottom is stuck on the bottom of the slide/top of the mag. For the life of me, I can't seem to do it with snap caps and take a picture.

This is what it looks like though http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee341/rsia23/top_side.jpg

Read through gb6491's thread again and found that it looks just like this but with the bullet still in.
http://i36.tinypic.com/2vla3op.jpg

[phelptwan]

It almost has to be magazine related being it is doing it on the 3rd round, which IMO would put that follower about right in the opening and being held up by the mag button wil lindeed cause ftf

I would have figured it would be gun related since it happens with 6 different mags.

[Bawanna]

I was kind of thinking that too. Could still be the mag release catching, maybe a burr or something.
Do you see that the stripper on the slide is getting behind the case when those rounds jamb?

[jocko]

my suggestion was only something that you cuold check out. If it does it ifferent mags on about round 3, then to e tha is magazine related, could be an out of spec magazine release. Just something that you can check out. U might be right but at least u will have eliminated that possability..

[phelptwan]

I was kind of thinking that too. Could still be the mag release catching, maybe a burr or something.
Do you see that the stripper on the slide is getting behind the case when those rounds jamb?

Yes, the stripper does get behind the case. I'll have to get a picture this weekend.


my suggestion was only something that you cuold check out. If it does it ifferent mags on about round 3, then to e tha is magazine related, could be an out of spec magazine release. Just something that you can check out. U might be right but at least u will have eliminated that possability..

Definitely something I'm going to check out.

[gb6491]

Being an advocate for the redesign of the follower in the .45ACP magazines (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=15667&postcount=2), I tend to think Jocko is on to something here. As you can see in the link I posted above there is quite a bit of contact between an unmodified follower and the latch. I wonder if this contact could impede the follower enough to cause feeding problems in your gun (especially if the latch was out of specification).

My other guess would be that the round is getting held up by the extractor.

pappy42 makes a good point about contacting Kahr. If they offer to send parts to try and resolve the problem, I would take them up on it if they agree to send a latch and extractor.

One final thought, if this always occurs while doing a string of fire, try setting the gun completely down between each shot and see if the problem persists.

Regards,
Greg

BTW, Welcome to the forums!:)

[phelptwan]

Kahr asked that the whole gun be sent back with mags...

My understanding is that I have to overnight it via fedex/ups air? Costs a lot to get this gun back up and running.

[Bawanna]

Did you request a return Fed Ex label? Sometimes you just have to ask if they don't offer. If the gun was purchased new it should be their dime not yours.

[Rotorflyr]

Seem(s) like there are more n more reports of people having to send their new guns back for warranty work on their dime, even after asking for a return label, when Kahr should be picking up the tab?

[Bawanna]

I think they just sometimes need to be reminded of that option.

I don't think we're seeing nearly as many new guns going back as we used to in the past and that is a wonderful thing. Course we only know what's posted here so maybe not an accurate measurement but as long as our guys (and TD2K) are getting good guns, its all very good.

[jocko]

I would recall kahr and remind themyou bought it in january and they should pick up the tab, they willdo it but they normaly dom't volunteer it either,insist on it...

[Rotorflyr]

Shouldn't really matter if there are a ton of guns going back (especially then) under warranty or not, IMO they shouldn't have to be "reminded" to pick up the tab for shipping on a warranty...And that goes for other companies as well.

I had a minor problem with a P3AT, in which by my own admission I lost a spring, and KelTec without prompting offered me a choice of sending me the part(s) or pick up the tab to ship it to them to be fixed.

H&K did once did some repair work that I felt was needed on P7(psp) that I purchased used, with no warranty, at no cost, and while in this instance I did pay to ship it to them, they picked up the return shipping (and again, there was NO warranty on the gun)

After contacting Armscor, when I purchased a 1911 at a show, and foolishly didn't check the case to make sure it had both magazines in it...to inquire the cost of a magazine, shipped me a magazine and a bunch of "goodies" at their expense.

A good majority of people who have shot Kahr guns seem to really like them, but I know of a few people who won't buy them because of (percieved) customer service issues, and that's a shame.

[jocko]

different companies do things differently. Kahr will pick up shipping but sometime one has to insist that they pay both ways.If one tells them the gun is basically new they will normally issue a pickup, Ihave been on this forum since the git go and we don't see much of this stuff, but it does happen. sometimes one is talking to the wrong person at kahr.If you feel ur gun should be paid both ways, just insist on it and take it higher up if necessary. They will do it. I had 3 kel techs and the combined 3 had to go back 17 times Kel tec paid every time BACK but never volunteered to pick up any one of my guns. I never asked as I knew I could send it back for under $8 bucks, so I did that myself, BUT they never volunteered either.I was not un happy about that part, just the poor overall quality and workmanship. U name it my kt's did it, from cracked slides to recoil springs coming right out the front of the slide, to broken triggers. broken barrel lugs twice in a row oh my P32.

[phelptwan]

Got a call from a Kahr rep today saying that he shot 60 rounds and could not get the pistol to malfunction. He thought it was possible the federal ammo or PMP had an OAL that was jamming up and they would try it with some different ammo. Also said he was going to clean up the notch for me.