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rockem_sockem
03-08-2011, 01:32 PM
What is everyone's impression of a ported PM9? I'm looking to buy a used PM9 that is ported, but have never seen that done to a kahr. What are thoughts on pro/cons of the porting....
Thanks!

Bawanna
03-08-2011, 01:57 PM
I can't believe I beat Jocko on this one.

I don't see any cons to porting. I did my K40. It looks cool, it helps tame the muzzle flip. Even in low light the flash is diverted so it doesn't effect our night vision. They say no reduction in velocity.
Your buying used so no warranty issue although I don't believe porting would effect warranty anyhow but don't know that for fact.

I'd not hesitate to purchase one that was ported. I'm a big magna port fan.

rockem_sockem
03-08-2011, 02:15 PM
Awesome! That's good to hear! I haven't seen much porting on any guns I've looked at in the past couple years, so I just haven't seen/heard much about it lately. Thanks for the +1

rockem_sockem
03-08-2011, 02:18 PM
Is there any argument to losing velocity in a ported barrel?

Bawanna
03-08-2011, 02:35 PM
Magna Port says there is virtually no reduction. Some would argue that there has to be some loss. If there is it has to be very minimal. In a 5" or less barrel not worth losing sleep over.

Bawanna
03-08-2011, 02:40 PM
APW Cogan says in their testing of ported GLOCK pistols, the average loss was 8%. There's some other interesting things to think about it...

http://www.apwcogan.com/in-house-specialties/porting.html

They port a bit differently than Magna Port. They are ported more at an angle to the sides so the escaping pressure is diverted at an angle rather than straight up.
The Cogan would seem to work more efficiently in reducing muzzle flip but couldn't say how much.

Magna Port works, I do know that.

jocko
03-08-2011, 03:28 PM
no sense in my chimming in, u guys did a nice job.. I was never a fan of drilling round holes on top of the slide and barrel.. .

OldLincoln
03-08-2011, 03:33 PM
Depends on your shooting style. If you use a traditional stance porting shouldn't be a problem. If you use a bladed stance with the gun held close to your chest porting is ruled out.

jocko
03-08-2011, 03:56 PM
Why would a person shoot with the gun close to his chest in the first place. I would thinhk it would be awkward and very difficult to use the sights at all. Emergencies maybe but actually training in that postion just to me seem so awkward. For me this is the first time I have even heard ot this "bladed stance".

Rotorflyr
03-08-2011, 04:07 PM
The biggest arguments against a ported gun for defensive/combat use are typically:

A) Flash Blindness

and

B) Powder Burns

Sure both of these things could happen, but IMHO:

A) Flash Blindness---depending on the ammo you use, it's not much of an issue, even in a short barrel gun, casue if your ammo causes that big a "flash" then you probably need to choose a different ammo, or change your loading if you hand load (yes, some people do choose to hand load their defensive ammo)

B) Powder Burns---most of this argument stems from the angle of should you be in a physical struggle with an assailaint when you pull the trigger, causing burns. If this is the case, there is just as likely (if not more so) a chance that if anyone is going to get burned it will be the assaliant and not you.

Again, it's possible both of these (as well as other issues) could happen using a ported gun for defensive purposes, but if you shoot it better then a non ported, and are comfortable carrying as such, go for it!

Bawanna
03-08-2011, 04:20 PM
Why would a person shoot with the gun close to his chest in the first place. I would thinhk it would be awkward and very difficult to use the sights at all. Emergencies maybe but actually training in that postion just to me seem so awkward. For me this is the first time I have even heard ot this "bladed stance".

Usually the gun is still extended at arms length even with a bladed stance. The gun is still a little closer to your face since your arm is crossing your body rather than straight out in front but still far enough away that flash shouldn't be an issue.
As rotoflyer mentioned in a up close hands on struggle the flash could get either of you or both. Shooting from a jacket pocket will most likely burn your jacket some but small price to pay if the shot saves your neck.
The little lightweight revolvers have been ported at the factory for years and the same issues are present. Never heard of it being that big a deal. Guess it's all about trade offs.

Incidently I use a semi bladed stance, park at about a 45degree angle to the target generally rather than straight on. I do occasionally shoot straight on too just for drill but prefer a little angle if I can get it.

jocko
03-08-2011, 05:03 PM
oh hell I have shot that way alot with all of my ported guns and that is a non issue,m trust me on that. Didn't know it had a name attached to it. Wonder what they would call my position of just sitting in a chair with crossed legs and resting over my legs??LAZY STANCE. probably..

Bawanna
03-08-2011, 05:19 PM
oh hell I have shot that way alot with all of my ported guns and that is a non issue,m trust me on that. Didn't know it had a name attached to it. Wonder what they would call my position of just sitting in a chair with crossed legs and resting over my legs??LAZY STANCE. probably..

No thats called the Bawanna stance or a modified bladed chair stance.

jocko
03-08-2011, 05:23 PM
I shoot that way alot at the range when by myself,just more enjoyable for me. To old and to many aches and pains to try all this running stuff and hiding behind a barrel etc.

Southern Guy
03-08-2011, 07:48 PM
Question for anybody with Night Sights and porting. Does shooting dirty ammo get the front sight dirty and therefor dim, or harder to see? Even if you don't have night sights does the front sight seem to get dirty worse than normal?

Thanks

jeepster09
03-08-2011, 08:03 PM
Love my ported guns....recently ran 50 rounds through my S&W J frame and my hand didn't even hurt! No problem with my night sights.

OldLincoln
03-08-2011, 08:18 PM
I linked a promo video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX3FtBKdwY4&fmt=5&NR=1) of C.A.R. Shooting System. Keep in mind it is a promo with a resume section up front but it's all worth seeing.

It's strictly a gunfight system keeping the gun close to the body for in-fighting and bring it up for longer shots. Since I've lost a lot of strength over the years I am learning it. The high position actually is close enough to my face that I can see the sights if I look through the bi-focal part and I shoot well. The low position is tougher and I still tend to shoot left and a little low.

TheTman
03-08-2011, 09:09 PM
Part of a friends firearms self defense class involved shooting with the gun held close to the chest, at a target that was very close, less than 2 yards, standing almost sideways. The instructor said that holding it close to your chest like that if the bad guy is that close reduces the chance of them being able to knock the gun away and gets the gun on target quicker. It does eliminate the use of sights, but you shouldn't really need them at a couple yards or less. This would only be used in a situation where the bad guy was too close already, so you hold close to your chest and move laterally away from him until you could get to a safe distance where you could use your sights. I can see the point of the excercise, say you're in standing in line at the store and the guy in front of you pulls a gun and you're right there within a couple feet of him.

jocko
03-09-2011, 05:21 AM
Magna porting does not effect front sights at all for dirrtiness. I would assume holes directly on top on the slide might dirty them up a tad. the fiber optic on my G19 with magna port and I can shoot a 100 rounds with ease before I notice a slight powder build up on the front sight. I just wipe it off with my finger and all is well. Certainly 50 rounds won't dirty up a sight not sure about the round holes on top of the slide. If ur goona even think of doing it, then let magnaport do it Jeepster09 photos show their system very well and your hearing a reply from another poster othen than me to.
It works great guys and I guess if you put the damn gun under your nose and fire it, it might redistribute part of your nose some where,but I have shot mine hip style chest style,u name it and never incountered one bad result.I also feel if you put a standard gun under your nose and fire it, it might also redirect part of your nose to. Personally I don't intend to test out some of these scenarios. For IMO one can come up with any scenario he wants to prove that such and such is not a good thing. It is a decision you have to make

Over the years magnaport has done millions of guns. The positives far far far out weight the negatives.

garyb
03-09-2011, 01:26 PM
What is everyone's impression of a ported PM9? I'm looking to buy a used PM9 that is ported, but have never seen that done to a kahr. What are thoughts on pro/cons of the porting....

You can't expect me to stay out of this one either. I may port my PM40 someday. But I want to shoot it in IDPA just the way it is first. They have class rules against porting. I won't bother discussing warranty issues, especially on a used gun. If I think I am going to like IDPA and decide to get competitive, I may need to become a gamester to win and this may require getting a larger full size Glock 9mm competitive gun. No need for me to port that for competition especially. If I go that route, then I might port my PM40. But I'm taking it slow for now because I am happy with the way my PM40 shoots just the way it is. On the other hand, if I desire to become competitive with the PM40 and it serves me well for competition AND carry without being ported, she will stay just the way she is...unported. I DO appreciate and respect the advantages of porting. It most definately helps reduce recoil and muzzle flip. I also believe magnaport is a good way to go. I just don't know if it is a modification I will have a need just yet. Time will tell.
It's really up to the individual gun owner...that's all there is to it.