PM45 jams with NEW recoil spring???

[Southern Guy]

A little history first.

I bought the gun and the day I bought it I put 250+ rounds through it. It did jam one time on round #39. Before last week it had never jammed with me shooting it again. Right after "break in" every time my wife shot it, it jammed (ftf) and I mean every time, every single shot. After a few hundred more rounds probably 3-400 additional, it just stopped. It never jammed with her or anybody else.......Obviously "limp wristing"

Well fast forward another 500+ rounds. I have been told KAHR recommends a recoil spring change every 1,000 rounds so I order a couple up and after I figure out I have to trim them I get one installed. I go out shooting and after 20-30 rounds a ftf. Well I kept on shooting and it didn't happen again. It is also now jamming with my wife again. Sound familiar?

Then the other day a buddy of mine came over with his new PM40 and we had a shoot out. Well it (my PM45) jammed with him, twice. He shot several more mags through it after that with what he called a "tighter grip" and had no more problems. I will also add he has shot my PM45 many times before and never had a problem, in fact he liked it so much he bought it's little brother, the PM40.

So my question is how in the world can a new recoil spring make a gun less reliable? Is this common?

Either way I'm not to terrible worried about it because when it's my hands it is as reliable as it can be.....now that I have put another 150 or so rounds through it after the last failure. I have shot it holding as loosely as I feel I can do safely, I have shot it rapidly one handed. I haven't been able to make it jam again....go figure.

[jocko]

undoubtely it is shooter error, but you should not have to trim your recoil springs if you have the right ones. Did you just get the outter recoil springs from kahr?. The way to order new springs for your PM45 which could be the new slide version or the old slide version is to measure the lenght of the recoil rod itself. if it measures 2 3/8" it is the old style and u should order that way, If it measures 2 1/2"IT IS THE NEW STYLE AND U SHOULD ORDER THATR WAY. You should not be trimming recoil springs.
Obviously u need to call kahr when ordering these springs and letting them know what recoil rod you have in ur gun. Ihave been told that now kahr only sells the entire recoils assembly which is around $24.

Not true on the kahr tale about 1000 rounds. U should be good to go for at least 2000+ rounds. If you can just get the outter recoil springs then one can change earlier due to little cost involved but at $24 a clip, I would go at least 2000-2500 rounds..

[Southern Guy]

I measured the rod and ordered the "old style" recoil spring assembly. The rod is the correct length, although the inter spring appears to slightly bigger,
my eyes could just be fooling me. I suppose it's possible they sent me a old style rod and inner spring but new style outer spring.

I agree I shouldn't be clipping a recoil spring but from what what I understand the only outer spring they sell is the new style, they tell you to clip off a 1/2 round until the slide will lock back. I clipped in 1/4's and it took 1 1/4 rounds before the slide would lock back.

I also agree it is shooter error but the thing is that the only time the shooters error matters enough to make the gun jam is when a new recoil spring is in.

It is good to know that I can go 2000+ rounds without a spring change to, I can't remember where I heard the 1,000 round thing.
I just figured better safe than sorry.



You probably want remember it, but YOU are the guy that turned me on to the PM45 a couple years ago on THR. I was looking for a small 45 asking for suggestions....Thanks, I love this little gun.

[pappy42]

When I ordered a new recoil assbly for my PM45; I first received the the "new style". They (KAHR) then sent me the correct old style that my pistol requires. It came with the same outer spring as the new style (15 coils). I had to trim it to 14 coils before I got slide lock back.

[jocko]

I find that totally ridiculous that kahr would send an outter recoil spring that is to long. It just is unheade of to tell anyoine to do that let alone to not even tell them and they have issues and not know that it is because the recoil spring is to long. That just makes zero sense to me that they would do that and I will check into to see if that is still being done today.. and get back with the forum to.

Here is the answer from my kahr man: Good afternoon. Thank you for the email. Bob was a great boss and he is
missed. The new and old style outer recoil springs have the exact same coil
count. The reason people are perceiving that the new assemblies are longer
is because their old assembly is compressed and the new assembly is
uncompressed. I have spoken to the web shop supervisor and the recoil
assemblies are sold as an assembly only and not as individual parts. I hope
this information helps you and others.


hope this clears some stuff up.. NO SHORTENING --PERIOD.

[pappy42]

I find that totally ridiculous that kahr would send an outter recoil spring that is to long. It just is unheade of to tell anyoine to do that let alone to not even tell them and they have issues and not know that it is because the recoil spring is to long. That just makes zero sense to me that they would do that and I will check into to see if that is still being done today.. and get back with the forum to.

Here is the answer from my kahr man: Good afternoon. Thank you for the email. Bob was a great boss and he is
missed. The new and old style outer recoil springs have the exact same coil
count. The reason people are perceiving that the new assemblies are longer
is because their old assembly is compressed and the new assembly is
uncompressed. I have spoken to the web shop supervisor and the recoil
assemblies are sold as an assembly only and not as individual parts. I hope
this information helps you and others.


hope this clears some stuff up.. NO SHORTENING --PERIOD.

This old boy is full off beans, Jocko, or they have changed something since I got mine about a month ago. With the full 15 coil spring that mine was sent with; I could'nt get the slide to lock or far enough back to chamber a round.

As you know; I'm no pilgrim when it comes to handguns. There is something here to get to the bottom of. The old spring was 13 coils as you have correctly stated many times and the new one was 15 coils. The 15 coil spring achieved coil bind in my PM45 before lock back.

I appreciate you taking an interest in this and pursuing it. Maybe they got a batch of out of spec springs or my pistol is out of spec; but it wouldn't function with the 15 coil spring. If Kahr stands behind this man's statement; I'm going to request a new spring and or assbly, because I don't want to carry a non factory spec pistol.

[jocko]

no no my coil count was with te PM40 and PM9 old vs new style. I ave no lue as to the PMJ45 what the old vs new coil count was, I never had one ... I can only repeat what was sent to me and this gun is one of our kahr cs people we normally converse with.

I gess my point and also not having the old vs the new in front of me with the PM45, they only lenghtened the recoil rod of the new vs the old style PM45 1/8". I would thinbk this would not demand a longer recoil spring . Now if a fella has the new recoil assembly in the old style PM45slide, the front of that recoil rod HAS to be sticking out the front of that slide. Pappy 42, u know I am not arguing here either but I sure would like for the older version PM45 guys to count their coil and the new PM45 guys to count their coils and we should be able to tell if thereis any difference. It will be in the coil count as the spring diameters have not changed.

Help us out here PM45 old and new style owners. count um and get back with us..

[Bawanna]

My PM45 has 13 coils if I start on the breech end where the spring meets the first wrap, that is 1 to the end of the muzzle end of the spring. 13.

[jocko]

andu have what the old or new style slide?? If in doubt measure the captive 2 3/8"old style 2 1/2" new style

[Bawanna]

andu have what the old or new style slide?? If in doubt measure the captive 2 3/8"old style 2 1/2" new style

You want me to tear this thing apart twice at my desk in a civilian gun free zone here at the PD?

OK, give me a few more minutes, I think it's the old style but I'll take it apart once more and measure my captives. Maybe give em a few lashes while I'm at it. Gotta go get a cup of Bawanna (joe) first, got the makings of an advil moment, must be low on caffeine.
Wonder why they never call it a cup a Dave, or Mark, or Sigfreid.

[jocko]

well we can't read what little mind u have great one,so we need to know if you have the old vs new style slide.

surely u can tell the difference in
2 3/8" vs 2 1/2"???????If not ask wyn,he will guide u if he is still not lowes picking out tile????

[Bawanna]

well we can't read what little mind u have great one,so we need to know if you have the old vs new style slide.

surely u can tell the difference in
2 3/8" vs 2 1/2"???????If not ask wyn,he will guide u if he is still not lowes picking out tile????

Ok, your immenseness, I snuck her apart and used my measuring stick and she's 2 3/8" right on the smackeroo.

I pity that poor Wyn, I hate tile and of course my wife wants a little patch of it. Did I tell ya I hate tile!

[jocko]

ok now we need the new styl;e 2 1/2" RECOIL assembly, outter recoil spring coil count....

sure would be super if we could see a photo side by side..

[Bawanna]

I think I got this figured out. Maybe they aren't too good with fractions and them little marks on the ruler between the big marks so they just made them a little bigger so they match the bigger marks on the ruler. Glad they didn't make em a full 3" so they would only have to look at the really big marks.

I hung drywall with a guy, he was calling out measurements to me with stuff like 52 and 13 of the little bitty marks, or 64 and 11 of the not so little marks. Never did get him able to read a tape measure. One of my lifes failures.

[jocko]

I have since fired back a email to my kahr person and told him of the difference in coil count and how this can be when he is telling me they are all the same coil count.

I think pappa 42 and bawanna know how to count to. again giving ALOT OF CREDIT to bawanna in that field, I know but he can't boff 2 coils l;ess and Pappy 42 also can't be off two coils more..

ok, got a quick reply back:


Good afternoon. Thank you for the reply email I have personally taken two
(old and new style) recoil assemblies out and compared them. They are the
exact same coil count. I am unsure as to how or why people have received
recoil assemblies with varying coil counts but I can tell you that the old
and new style have the same counts. If anyone does have any issues with
their recoil assemblies please have them call our customer service line and
we will be happy to assist them in any way that we can. I hope this
information is helpful



now if I was pappy, I would send that damn 15 coil spring assembly back and ask what the heh is going on. It seems if they don't have the sucker in thier hands, they are going to stick to their story

I have wrote back and ask what their coil count in on the PM45 springs...

oki, got this back:

Good afternoon. I have counted both new and old and they are 14 coils.
sincerely,

[jocko]

Question to new style PM9 and PM45 owners. could your recoil assembly's possable be the same in coil count and size even? Meaning, would your PM9 outter recoil spring fit over the PM45 recoil rod assembly?

[Southern Guy]

This old boy is full off beans, Jocko, or they have changed something since I got mine about a month ago. With the full 15 coil spring that mine was sent with; I could'nt get the slide to lock or far enough back to chamber a round.

As you know; I'm no pilgrim when it comes to handguns. There is something here to get to the bottom of. The old spring was 13 coils as you have correctly stated many times and the new one was 15 coils. The 15 coil spring achieved coil bind in my PM45 before lock back.

I appreciate you taking an interest in this and pursuing it. Maybe they got a batch of out of spec springs or my pistol is out of spec; but it wouldn't function with the 15 coil spring. If Kahr stands behind this man's statement; I'm going to request a new spring and or assbly, because I don't want to carry a non factory spec pistol.


+1

I ordered the "old style" recoil spring assembly and when my slide wouldn't lock back I counted the coils and there were more on the spring they sent, both of them. I had ordered two new assemblies. Probably counted them 5 times a piece. The inter rod was the correct length, 2 3/8 but like I said the inter spring looked to be slightly bigger.

If they stick to that story they have something screwed up pretty bad, and they don't know it??? Bottom line is they are shipping out recoil springs that are to long therefor keeping the slide from locking back.

[jocko]

damn southern guy, can u photo these different springs for us. I will then forward it to the kahr "expert". I trust this forum people more than who I am talking to, but proof is in the puddin, they say..

counting both coils exactly the same way, what is your count for each???

I can tell u this much. I have 4 new old style PM9 springs and they are supposed to have 13 coils. I counted each one and I came up with 12 coils, but If I count the open end tip as a coil and the closed end end peace as a coil I get 13. Ihope you can understand what I am saying also..

[Bawanna]

That is the way my count worked also. Open end as a coil, closed end piece as a coil.

[jocko]

WE NEED GOOD PHOTOS OF VBOTH SPRINGS IN EXACT SAME POSITION FOR ALL TO SEE AND COUNT.

WHERE ARE OUR GREAT CAMERA GUYS WHEN WE NEED UM??

we could put this damn thing to rest with good photos of old vs new PM45 recdoil springs..

[Southern Guy]

Unfortunately I have already clipped the new recoil springs so the photos wouldn't show much if any difference.

I did stumble across something of interest, I figured I'd just buy another assembly and it would either be correct and work or I would have the proof. So I went to KARH's site to find the price had gone up about ten bucks. Curious, I did a little looking around and found two different "Old Style" recoil assemblies.........
Well, I at least found two with different prices???


http://www.kahr.com/Pistol-Parts/Kahr-PM45-Recoil-Assembly-Old-Style.asp


http://www.kahr.com/Pistol-Parts/Kahr-005PM45BS-Recoil-Assembly-Old-Style.asp


I'm open to explanations...

[Bawanna]

I wish I had an explanation for you. They look to be the same thing to me. I'd like to order 3 or 4 of the 14 dollar ones before they all go to the 23 dollar price.
Maybe they are different prices for trailer trash like me and the expensive ones for you fellas with loot?

[jocko]

Unfortunately I have already clipped the new recoil springs so the photos wouldn't show much if any difference.

I did stumble across something of interest, I figured I'd just buy another assembly and it would either be correct and work or I would have the proof. So I went to KARH's site to find the price had gone up about ten bucks. Curious, I did a little looking around and found two different "Old Style" recoil assemblies.........
Well, I at least found two with different prices???


http://www.kahr.com/Pistol-Parts/Kahr-PM45-Recoil-Assembly-Old-Style.asp


http://www.kahr.com/Pistol-Parts/Kahr-005PM45BS-Recoil-Assembly-Old-Style.asp


I'm open to explanations...



the word CLUSTERFOKK come to mind..

[MikeyKahr]

Maybe it's just me, but the fact that we can't get identical, straight answers (and actually we might get wrong answers) from Kahr CS when asking them simple questions seem fairly ridiculous. Sorry I can't help with PM45 pics, I've only got my PM9.

[Bawanna]

Maybe it's just me, but the fact that we can't get identical, straight answers (and actually we might get wrong answers) from Kahr CS when asking them simple questions seem fairly ridiculous. Sorry I can't help with PM45 pics, I've only got my PM9.

Sure you can help. Why don't you order up a new PM45. When it gets here and while performing the infamous Jocko Proper Prep measure the guide rod and count the coils. Maybe count the coils in the striker spring too for future reference.
Then you can take a picture of your new style PM45 and I'll take a picture of my Old style PM45 for comparison.
The world will be a much better place for your efforts and if the missus gives you a hard time about it you tell her Jocko said it was ok, approved, blessed and given the proceed notification.

More than one way to turn this alligator into sunday go to meeting holster.

[jocko]

Maybe it's just me, but the fact that we can't get identical, straight answers (and actually we might get wrong answers) from Kahr CS when asking them simple questions seem fairly ridiculous. Sorry I can't help with PM45 pics, I've only got my PM9.

ur right, until we can see photos of the old vs the new spring and can actually see a difference in coil count, we have to lean towards kahr possably being correct. I guess we can all be off a tad in our coil counts but photos side by side in the same position will produce the "proof in the puddin" stuff that we can then take and gently shove it where the sun doesn't shine in someone's ass at kahr. I have a hard time believeing they don't know what they are talking about especialy sinceI baggered them 3 times today about the same thing.

Us PM9 guys don't have that problem:D:D:D:D I knew there was a reason why i Didn't own a pM45:D:D

[Southern Guy]

Well, I'll know in a few days. I just ordered another one, and yes I ordered at the "trailer trash" price. Can't wait to see if it works and how many coils it has.

We'll get it solved yet.

[Bawanna]

I can't wait to see what you end up getting now. Kind of exciting for a recoil spring. I was thinking of ordering one too. Be really strange if we got different springs huh. Or better yet if I order the trailer trash one and got the rich people one by mistake. Not that would be funny right there.


Wait maybe the 10 dollar more one isn't for rich people, maybe its "TACTICAL" ya think?

[Southern Guy]

I can't wait to see what you end up getting now. Kind of exciting for a recoil spring. I was thinking of ordering one too. Be really strange if we got different springs huh. Or better yet if I order the trailer trash one and got the rich people one by mistake. Not that would be funny right there.


Wait maybe the 10 dollar more one isn't for rich people, maybe its "TACTICAL" ya think?

Nah, if it was "TACTICAL" it would have to be Matte Black and would cost $20 more.:D


I just wish Wolff would make a PM45 spring assembly so I could get that and be done with it.

[jocko]

all they need to do is make the outter spring like the offer for thePM9 old style slide users, like OL JOCKO SHOOTS.

[earle8888]

Guy's I have ordered from Wolffe and replaced my PM40 springs. Not a big deal to unscrew the rod nut and replace after new spring. I used the blue loctite !

[Southern Guy]

Unfortunately they (Wolff) don't make any PM45 springs, except maybe mag springs not sure on that one.

[Bawanna]

Unfortunately they (Wolff) don't make any PM45 springs, except maybe mag springs not sure on that one.

YET! I suspect they will one day. Just haven't got there yet. There's a lot of PM45's out there and Wolff won't let us down.

[kramm]

Well fellas I just took mine down and counted coils,13 of em. I've got the old style 2 3/8" recoil assembly.

[jocko]

Guy's I have ordered from Wolffe and replaced my PM40 springs. Not a big deal to unscrew the rod nut and replace after new spring. I used the blue loctite !

just replace the outter recoil spring and continue on. I replaced my inner one time and never did it again. no doubt wolffs is the place to go for the pM9 and PM40 old style springs. You new kahr owners will have to wait.kAHR tellsme the inner spring doesn't do near the work the outter spring does.

[jocko]

Well fellas I just took mine down and counted coils,13 of em. I've got the old style 2 3/8" recoil assembly.

u take a jnice close up photo of that spring, sooner or later we wll get a photo of the new slide spring andthen we caqn compare???

[pappy42]

ok now we need the new styl;e 2 1/2" RECOIL assembly, outter recoil spring coil count....

sure would be super if we could see a photo side by side..

Ask and you receive great one. If someone will tell this ignorant country boy how to post photos; I will post the one that I sent to Kahr when they sent me the wrong assbly.

[kramm]

Here's the best I http://kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3378&stc=1&d=1299777963could manage. Not real good at this.

[Bawanna]

Hey ya stole my spring, and my guide rod, and my gosh darn Stanley tape measure. I feel so violated.

Thats weird, I just check and my spring and guide rod are still in my gun? How weird is that. I can't find my Stanley tape measure though. Thief!

[kramm]

Dang Bawanna, you were supposed to just be looking at the spring and g-rod assembly.
Guess I should have painted the tape measure. http://kahrtalk.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[jocko]

I count 14 coils

[Bawanna]

I count 14 coils

14? You must be counting the two coils that are touching each other on the bottom.
Or maybe your wearing your riding goggles and theres feather pieces left from the last bird strike and it looks like a coil?

[jocko]

yes I was counting the two cils at the bottom.. that why we need both kindsw of the coils side by side, as we all seem to be counting differently. If they are lined up side by side and in ther exact same position, it should be evident if there is a difference. I am beginning to think they are all the same recoil springs.. for me I would consider two coils touching each other as two coils.

[pappy42]

here goes

[Bawanna]

I see 16 (new) and 14 (old) using the Jocko count method. Starting at end tip and counting the 2 touching coils as 2.

How did you do that Pappy, you got a new and a old or get a wrong one to compare?

[pappy42]

I don't know what the bs is about counting coils; it's either a coil and you count it or you don't. My old PM45 outer recoil spring had 13 coils. The new recoil spring that Kahr sent me has 15 coils,

With the whole new style recoil assbly; the rod end did indeed stick out the end of the slide on my old style PM45. When Kahr sent the correct old style recoil assbly; it also had a 15 coil outer recoil spring. In MY pistol, the 15 coil spring achieved coil bind before the slide would lock back or before the slide would travel far enough back to chamber a round. The spring had to be cut back to 14 coils (on advice from a CS rep) before slide lock/chambering would take place.

The pistol functions well now and I am reluctant to change anything until we can sort this out. What I suspect is that the Kahr factory personnel have differing ways to achieve function, and that is what is causing confusion amongst us pilgrims.

[pappy42]

I see 16 (new) and 14 (old) using the Jocko count method. Starting at end tip and counting the 2 touching coils as 2.

How did you do that Pappy, you got a new and a old or get a wrong one to compare?

Yep, we have a thread in which I addressed my problem about being sent the incorrect recoil assbly for my PM45.

I took the pictur that I posted here and sent it to CS at Kahr, then they sent me the correct assbly.

The photo that I posted shows the "new style" recoil assbly on the left and the one that I removed from my old style PM45 on the right

[Bawanna]

I don't know what the bs is about counting coils; it's either a coil and you count it or you don't. My old PM45 outer recoil spring had 13 coils. The new recoil spring that Kahr sent me has 15 coils,

With the whole new style recoil assbly; the rod end did indeed stick out the end of the slide on my old style PM45. When Kahr sent the correct old style recoil assbly; it also had a 15 coil outer recoil spring. In MY pistol, the 15 coil spring achieved coil bind before the slide would lock back or before the slide would travel far enough back to chamber a round. The spring had to be cut back to 14 coils (on advice from a CS rep) before slide lock/chambering would take place.

The pistol functions well now and I am reluctant to change anything until we can sort this out. What I suspect is that the Kahr factory personnel have differing ways to achieve function, and that is what is causing confusion amongst us pilgrims.

Semi agreed. My PM45 also has 13 coils by my count. If you count where the first coil goes around and touches the first coil it would be 14 but theres no space between coils so I don't count that one.
We have to determine coils since the spring takes a set after being in the gun for a bit, (I know you know this but others may not). So we can't take it out and set it beside even a new correct spring and compare length as the new one will probably be an inch longer, probably less but certainly longer than one thats been in the gun only a week and never fired.
It seems to me that even with the longer guide rod the spring really wouldn't need to be longer, its only an 1/8". Kahr is saying they are all the same, at least one person said that.
Sooo, thats what we need to determine, you obviously got a new one with more coils and the longer rod for your old style gun so something just ain't adding up here.
I went thru this years ago with Beretta springs. Our overly worrisome instructors were on a kick that we needed to replace all the recoil springs in the Beretta's which I knew had no where near the round count that they recommended for spring replacement. I finally just took a brand new spring, put it in my armorer gun and left it for awhile. Took it out and measured the length and used that to compare officers guns. Some were a full inch shorter than the new spring and still functioned perfectly. Being a don't fix it if it ain't broke guy I did'nt feel the need to replace springs when not needed.

[Bawanna]

Yep, we have a thread in which I addressed my problem about being sent the incorrect recoil assbly for my PM45.

I took the pictur that I posted here and sent it to CS at Kahr, then they sent me the correct assbly.

The photo that I posted shows the "new style" recoil assbly on the left and the one that I removed from my old style PM45 on the right

Yup, I remember that now. My mind seems to be loosening and some of the things I used to remember fall out the cracks from time to time.

[jocko]

don't carehow ojhne conts the photos pappy 42 took definitely show a different amount of coils.
Something is not right that is for sure. I have forwarded this on to kahr to see what kind of b.s. answer I get back. Telling anyone to cut coils off is just not acceptable IMO. sure they might work but that is not how you ordered it either.

[Bawanna]

don't carehow ojhne conts the photos pappy 42 took definitely show a different amount of coils.
Something is not right that is for sure. I have forwarded this on to kahr to see what kind of b.s. answer I get back. Telling anyone to cut coils off is just not acceptable IMO. sure they might work but that is not how you ordered it either.

I hope you took your medications this morning. I hate to see ya get to awful worked up about this. I've seen you on a rampage before and well, your just not yourself. If I get a fish head in the mail I'll know I've angered you.
I'll be sure I have some lemon juice on hand, can't eat fish without lemon juice.

[pappy42]

Yup, I remember that now. My mind seems to be loosening and some of the things I used to remember fall out the cracks from time to time.

What were we talking about? I forgot.

[Bawanna]

What were we talking about? I forgot.

Jocko's medication addictions? Proper way to mail fish heads? Coil spring beds versus water beds?

I plumb forgot too.

[jocko]

have to agree with both of you two. I think I am done with it, as it just seems a no win thing. Sure glad I have an old styple PM9 where I can just go on line and buy just the outter springs in even two different weights from wolffs and not have to pay $24 plus shipping and then crossing my fingers that they send the right one. I knew I bought that PM9 back then for some reason..

[Bawanna]

have to agree with both of you two. I think I am done with it, as it just seems a no win thing. Sure glad I have an old styple PM9 where I can just go on line and buy just the outter springs in even two different weights from wolffs and not have to pay $24 plus shipping and then crossing my fingers that they send the right one. I knew I bought that PM9 back then for some reason..

Well that's a relief. How do the roads look today? Any chance of some 2 wheeler time? That would help huh?

[MikeyKahr]

Good afternoon. Thank you for the reply email I have personally taken two (old and new style) recoil assemblies out and compared them. They are the exact same coil count. I am unsure as to how or why people have received recoil assemblies with varying coil counts but I can tell you that the old and new style have the same counts.


Good afternoon. I have counted both new and old and they are 14 coils.

Looking at pappy42's picture and all things considered, I stand by my original position, which is it is utterly ridiculous to need to have all of these conversations just to get a simple correct answer about something as simple as the number of coils on a recoil spring. This should be a 15 seconds question and answer (and I only said 15 seconds to justify an explanation on how one counts the closed end of the spring, be it counted as one or two coils) - and the answer should be correct!!!

There is definitely something to get to the bottom to on this topic (thanks for trying doing so, jocko) as this is clear as mud. The only thing that would make sense to me would be if Kahr CS sent pappy42 a completely wrong spring not intended for the PM45 at all - is that possible? Oh well, I'm with jocko - I'm glad I got the old style PM9 when I did and I'm glad I know where to go for a good "non-overpriced" deal on two different pound springs.

[jocko]

whenI am on the bike I sure in hell don't worry about kahrs. Milk shake trails are another thing though... Itis bitter cold here today..

[Southern Guy]

I got my new recoil spring in yesterday. I installed it today and the slide wouldn't lock back, the spring does have a extra coil on it, probably about a coil and a half. So I called KAHR and they told me to try to put an empty mag in it and see if the slide would lock back that way. I don't really know what that was suppose to accomplish but I complied. Not to my surprise the slide didn't lock, so I called back and they told me clip half a round at a time until it "works." Also told me "it should take no more than 2 rounds."

That is ridiculous, hopefully I can avoid having to deal with them in the future. I love my PM45 and would gladly recommend one to anybody, but I would also have to tell them about this type of bs from them. I can't even get a correct recoil spring from the manufacturer. It is unacceptable cs imo....

Anyway, through with the update and rant.

[CJB]

To devils advocate for a second...

Suppose you were a gun manufacturer. And suppose you did have some variation from lot to lot in the exact positioning of say... the ledge where the recoil spring fits in the slide. Maybe it didn't seem like much when you were making slides, but then you decided to max out the springs. Well.... thats doable in a factory setting, but what about replacements? In that case you'd have to supply a long spring, and it would need to be fit. Supplied long, it would cover a worst case scenario.

If they had a little note in there that said "Due to manufacturing variations, this spring is supplied purposefully long... (blah blah blah)....cutting no more than two coils until the proper fit is established", then you'd probably not be as upset.

Just my 2c on it.

[jocko]

cjb; CAN U NAME ME one gun maker that sends springs to long and then tells you to cut them back until they work. Just one please and then I will shut up.. If that be the case, why would wolffs make literally thousands of different recoil springs for all the guns they list. Why not make one spring only make it 3 feet long and then one can order it and cut off what HE thinks will work, if it is to long, then just trim some, if it is cut to short, then pitch it and u still have 2.5 feet of new recoil spring to trial and error.

It makes zero sense and for a kahr tech person to tell an ower that is just so far out of whack I can't believe it.. Not trying to be a smart-ass here but I have sold guns for over 40 years and I can't remember ever ordering a part from a gun maker for their guns and having a note in there to modify it.

I hope I don't need a new slide stop for my PM9 for fear kahr will just send me a 2" BLOCK of steel with a note to carve it myself!!