Scale Woes!

[OldLincoln]

I'm using the RCBS 505 Scale Bawanna gave me and I like it, but have an issue. I get a consistent 4.5gn load measured one at a time, but when I measure 10 loads of the same it comes out 46.4gns. Do a single next and it is once again 4.5. Why doesn't my scale = 45gns with 10 of those? More importantly, which is correct?

[Bawanna]

Mork calling Tilos, Mork calling Tilos!

You got me on that one. 1.4 grains isn't enough to be concerned about averaged over 10 loads especially when your in the low to mid range of the recipe scale but seems like you should be closer than that.

If your getting consistent individual charges, that means your working the powder measure consistently and uniformly. I used to lower the handle and give it one solid extra tap to settle the powder in the hopper and clean out the meter area. I do the same thing at the top of the stroke.

Be nice to have a check weight to make sure the scale is reading right in the heavier weights and the low end as well.

You should put a digital scale on your Christmas list also although I used and still use a balance beam alot. I trust em more. Plus once your dialed in with the measure you only need to check once in awhile.

[OldLincoln]

I remember you telling me to make a digital scale one of my earlier additions. For now I'm going with the individual measures. Like you said, it is in the middle of the range 4.3 - 4.8 so I'm not dangerous, just a bit baffled. Thanks...

[Sliebl]

I feel that a good scale that you can trust is money well spent when it comes to reloading.
I have one of these: PACT BBK2 Scale (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=883267) <-- Midway link.
This one comes with two different check weights that are used in the calibration process. It also has a nice powder pan for your measuring pleasure. :D
I use 3.6, 3.8, and 4.1 grains of Titegroup in several of my loads, and my 10 drop average is always within .75 grains of my target weight. I find that plenty accurate for my needs.

[500KV]

O.L. you can send those scales to RCBS and they will either repair or replace them at no charge.
The absolute best customer service in the industry.
They're also in CA so an added plus for you.

I had an old second hand powder measure that was simply worn out; sent it to them and they sent me a brand new Uniflow; no charge, no questions.
Great folks to do business with.

[MW surveyor]

OldLincoln,

Not to be taken the wrong way, but how many of those 10 drop weighs did you do? And probably the most important thing is did you do the 10 drops the exact same way you did the singles?

Was the gross poise sitting correctly on the beam? This is another area that may introduce some error.

Just my $0.2.

Jim

[Tilos]

OL:
Have someone with one of those electronic scales weigh a shiney new penny and you'll have a test weight...for free.
I've seen coin weights posted somewhere but don't recall where.

I know you move your stuff a lot, and have to ask if you zeroed/leveled your scale this time too.
That scale is like a 3 legged stool with the adjustment only correcting the "left to right" but front to back needs to be close too.
Blue painter's tape holds my scale on the shelf, always in the same spot.

Try adjusting the measure to 10 and see what 1 weighs.
And if you are real anal like me, have Mr.B send you that exact penny:eek:.
Dust on the beam will throw it off too.

Tilos

[OldLincoln]

Good thoughts all. I'll find some good samples to weigh single and combined before sending it back, but in the end I may do that.

Jim, Once before I had the gross poise sitting between numbers and really scratched my head on it. I must have confirmed it was right 5 or 6 times before actually touching it and feel it drop into the grove. But not this time.

I dropped at least 4 multiples and more singles so it wasn't a fluke. However, the scale in on my desktop sitting a foot or so lower than my eyes. I bend over to see the lines but may have some parallax in there.

After I posted I got out of my chair and looking square onto the scale with a single drop, using my glass I could see I was off about a half line. Now that I finished my loads, I tinkered with it getting the 4.5gn perfect and the 10x came to 44.8gn. There has to be that much varration in the measure, so I'm going to chalk it up to operator error.

The white line on the arm is not centered on the metal but a tad above center and I suspect that was a factor but I should have looked harder. A .5 line error comes to 5 lines in a 10x drop which could be close to what I saw.

Sorry for the rabbit trail.

[Tilos]

Wow Mr.B, how did we neglect to mention mounting the scale at eye level in the mega thread??
Sorry for the omission.
Tilos

[Bawanna]

I'm ashamed of myself as that is an important thing. I had mine set on a separate shelf so when I banged on stuff on the bench it didn't transfer to the scale.

My bad!

My digital tilts is someone walks by. The air movement tilts it. A simple matter to reset and I have it on a separate stool away from the bench and possible disruptions.

I'm sure we'll think of others important stuff we've forgotten.

[OldLincoln]

You may have said to do that and I let it go by me. I'd have to either balance it on top of my computer monitor or stack 10 novels to set it on. Clumsy me would likely bump it spilling powder all over.

I'll have to figure a way to raise it, like set it on a small step stool.

[Bawanna]

Or just note this and get down where you can read it. Your last readings you were only off .5 gr so thats as close to perfect as you'll likely get. That's about what I had when I did my Tilo's 10 round average. I was dang proud too, don't mind telling ya. That means your really throwing consistent out of the measure. Go have the missus give you a atta boy and a pat on the back.

[wyntrout]

Bawanna', I just posted a thread under Ammunition about a recall for Federal and American Eagle .45 ACP ammo. Wal-Mart was selling a lot of the Champion 230-gr FMJ.
They had WWB100, so I bought 4 boxes of that... been shooting a lot and need to replenish.

Wynn :)

[wyntrout]

On thread a bit... don't reload on carpet, if you have a choice. Powder and especially shot can get into that carpet and be around for a while... and there's the static electricity possibility, too.
BTDT.

The shot is really noisy when you vacuum... and there always seems to be some left to be vacuumed up!

Wynn:)

[Bawanna]

I didn't think it was stupid OL.

[MW surveyor]

OL, Glad that you found the answer to the problem. Forgot about the eye level thing. Doh! While I put everything away after reloading, when I put the scale back on the bench, it goes in the same spot every time (and zero checked). I had to put the scale up on a 4x4 to get it up enough so that I don't have to bend over too far to get a straight sight line. Still have to get off the stool to read it though.

I believe that a penny is 2.5 grams. Don't take my word for it though. I believe that I googled the answer up. New is definitely better than old.

[Catshooter]

Remember, a grain is one seven thousanth of a pound. It's pretty small. Nothing is perfect, so there can always be some tiny variation. A tenth is 1/70,000th of a pound. Kinda small. :)


Cat

[earle8888]

Yep Bawana remember we had discussion before about not keeping the scale on the bench that U load on. Need isolation!

[OldLincoln]

Thought about cutting up my ladder and making a nifty aluminum table about 14" tall by 4" wide X 12" wide to set my scale on. Problem is I don't care to look at the ladder or any part of it so it's in the trash load for today's pickup.

My last reloading I just got down on my knees looked at the level and while down there said a prayer that I would be able to get back up.

I would like an explanation about isolation of scale and bench. I usually tap the table after the first reading that's correct to see if it changes. Is that bad?

[Bawanna]

The isolation is even more important with a digital scale. They are usually very sensitive. Mine (a RCBS I think) tilts if someone walks by fast. I like to have the scale off the bench so if I pound on something, pull a bullet, or do anything that moves the bench it doesn't rattle the scale.
I put my scale on an old wood bar stool. The read out is on the top so it doesn't need to be eye level. On the stool by itself and being on a concrete floor keeps it from getting bumped by anything I do on the bench.

I keep it in a small cabinet when not in use to keep some of the grip building dust off of it.

[jeep45238]

I was never able to get my RCBS scale to read properly. The expensive (several hundred dollar) RCBS ones, worked great when I had a chance to use them.

That said, I use a Lee unit. It works every time, zero's every time, and is accurate. And cheap!