Another New PM9

[IRLJR]

Same results as several others recently--new PM9--follow instructions for clean and prep--shoot 100 rds without a problem--6 and 7 rnd mags both workrd perfect.
Thanks for the tips--very pleased with my first Kahr.:D
IRL

[jocko]

welcome to the forum, no doubt in my mind the PM9 would perform as designed, ever the 7 rounder to.. wanna bet ur own another kahr and maybe sooner than u expect..

[Dietrich]

The more you shoot that PM9 the more attatched you`re going to become to it.I truly enjoy all my handguns but my PM9 is by far my favorite cc weapon.

[Bill K]

Hi,

With all you "new" guys showing up I'm already feeling like an old time member here at Kahrtalk. :)

http://jeffreyjr.net/pic/old-man-fred.png

Glad to read that your PM9 is working out for you...

[jocko]

Bill K. I don't know whether you know it or not but you just showed this forum the photo of BAWANNA.

[Roshi98]

Got my new PM9 yesterday and brought it to the range today, putting 150 rounds through in just over an hour. Hugely disappointed! There was literally no way for me to predict where the round was going to impact the target. In fact, the rounds were hitting all over the place - top, bottom, left, and right. I was using a standard 50 yard sighting target at 5, 7, and 15 yards and have to say that this was definitely NOT a case of user error. Had no such problems today with my SR9c.

To highlight my day, I would align the top of my sights right at the top of one of the target's thick black quadrant lines, dead center, to get a sense of any bullet drop, windage issue, elevation problem, brand differential, etc - no issue whatsoever with the Ruger. Clean, clear, consistent, close groupings every single time. Using the same methodology with the Kahr, one shot would be a foot low, the next six inches to the left, the next a foot to the left, the next a flyer off target, and so on. Time after time, even using a bench rest, the shots just flew everywhere. One handed dominant, two-handed Weaver, two-handed isoceles, benchrest, the Kahr would not stay on target, ever.

I'm thinking it's that the barrel's rifling is subpar and that the bullet is just flying out with inconsistent or no rotation to it, but maybe someone else has heard of a similar issue and has a different theory? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated because I really want to stick with the PM9.

[Bawanna]

I'd email or call Kahr and see how to proceed. Sure sounds like a bad barrel.

I had an MK that spent time in Puget Sound, was rebuilt by kahr except barrel not replaced. Couldn't hit a paper plate at 5 ft to save my back side.

Apparently it was corroded although it looked real good. A new barrel and it's a tack driver, seriously.

I've not heard of what your experiencing before with a brand new gun so we'll all be curious to see what shakes out for ya.

It's definitely not the norm for sure.

[Bawanna]

Bill K. I don't know whether you know it or not but you just showed this forum the photo of BAWANNA.

Dang it, my cover is blown.

[Roshi98]

It's definitely not the norm for sure.

Thanks for the advice. Definitely know it's not the norm and I have a lot of experience with double-action only firearms so it wasn't like I didn't know to expect a long trigger pull.

Looking at the rifling I can see a little twist but it's amazingly shallow. I know that Kahr's bore process doesn't score the barrel like other manufacturers, but to me it seemed that the machining in my barrel wasn't nearly enough. It's not like I have a micrometer on hand so I could be talking out of my arse!:D

Well, this will be my first ever call to a manufacturer, I'm just sad it's to the one I paid the most money to.:(

[jocko]

polygonal rifling looks completely different than standard rifling. someone here posted a nice photo of both side by side, u might be able to look it up on this forum.

call kahr ask for Jay or Eion explain your findings, get their feedback. U might just be able to send the barrel back for review, it would be alot cheaper and much faster to.

What I think I would do also before callling kahr or sending back anything is to find a good shooter that you know and take him out and let him shoot that gun at the same distances. If he duplicates the wild ass patterns all over the target, then rest assured you have a barrel issue and it will go much further in your conversation with the kahr tech people . U need to eliminate all the possables, even shooter possables, so as to not be sending back a gun and kahr retesting it and telling you nothing is wrong with it, as then u are going to be so distrustful to their findings etc and will have no faith in the gun either. Trust me in no way am I saying it is shooter error either, but what I am saying it that you should for sure elimiinate the possability of shooter error..

[MikeyKahr]

Hi Roshi98, sorry to hear about your experience with the PM9. I can't ever say I've ever read or heard of such a thing with a new one. That said, be thankful you bought new as Kahr will take care of you and make it right. I know it's tough to do, but hang in there and have a bit of patience and soon enough, it will be a great shooter. Make the call. Quick question, did you have someone else try to shoot it? Don't get me wrong, with the results you've described (off by feet, off the target) it's more than likely not shooter error, but I'm just curious if someone else gave it a whirl. Did you try to move in (2-3 yards) just to see where it was?

[Roshi98]

Hi Roshi98, sorry to hear about your experience with the PM9. I can't ever say I've ever read or heard of such a thing with a new one. That said, be thankful you bought new as Kahr will take care of you and make it right. I know it's tough to do, but hang in there and have a bit of patience and soon enough, it will be a great shooter. Make the call. Quick question, did you have someone else try to shoot it? Don't get me wrong, with the results you've described (off by feet, off the target) it's more than likely not shooter error, but I'm just curious if someone else gave it a whirl. Did you try to move in (2-3 yards) just to see where it was?

Thanks so much for the feedback. I was hoping someone else might have heard something about grossly inconsistent pattern but in a way I'm really glad my situation seems unique - at least that means Kahr's overall quality is good and resolution should be pretty simple.

I did have some of the more expert shooters watch as I fired from the benchrest and they agreed that something other than me was definitely off. One of the guys actually uses a PM9 as his primary CCW and he was shocked by the performance of my new weapon.

I tested from several distances, starting at 5 yards and moving out to 15. I also shot 15 rounds from 3 yards just to see if I was completely insane and the rounds landed, generally, about 5-7 inches BELOW where I was aiming. That's pretty extreme in my book. More troubling was that those hits weren't even in a straight line - they were spread about 3-4 inches apart in all directions.:eek:

Something's definitely amiss with the gun because even on my worst day (which was with an S&W .38 airlite) I could easily pull the shots back into decent groupings. 200 rounds with the PM9 pretty much confirmed to me that user error could not account for such bizarre results.:(

[Roshi98]

polygonal rifling looks completely different than standard rifling. someone here posted a nice photo of both side by side, u might be able to look it up on this forum.

call kahr ask for Jay or Eion explain your findings, get their feedback. U might just be able to send the barrel back for review, it would be alot cheaper and much faster to.

What I think I would do also before callling kahr or sending back anything is to find a good shooter that you know and take him out and let him shoot that gun at the same distances. If he duplicates the wild ass patterns all over the target, then rest assured you have a barrel issue and it will go much further in your conversation with the kahr tech people . U need to eliminate all the possables, even shooter possables, so as to not be sending back a gun and kahr retesting it and telling you nothing is wrong with it, as then u are going to be so distrustful to their findings etc and will have no faith in the gun either. Trust me in no way am I saying it is shooter error either, but what I am saying it that you should for sure elimiinate the possability of shooter error..

At the range I go to I asked two of the guys who work there, both master shooters, to watch as I fired from a benchrest and they concurred that user error was pretty much eliminated as a possibility.

I definitely appreciate your suggestion and should Kahr come back with an unsatisfactory solution I would go with that approach, but I'm a confident shooter, particularly with long double-action handguns (revolvers, really, with a ton more kick than the PM9) and every indication was that something's not right with my weapon.

Guess I'll have some updates to post as I start working with Kahr tomorrow to solve this mystery. Thanks again for some really sound advice.:)

[TTPower]

what ammo were you using? did you try using different batch of ammos? i had a similar experience before while using reloads.

[Roshi98]

what ammo were you using? did you try using different batch of ammos? i had a similar experience before while using reloads.

I don't use reloads because I'm really into keeping my warranties intact.

All 115gr from Winchester white box, Remington, and Blazer w/ aluminum casings.

[jocko]

wwb and blazer is good ammo and shuyld produce no feed issues.nothing wrong with reloads IF U KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING.