Bad First Day With New PM9

[Roshi98]

Got my new PM9 yesterday and brought it to the range today, putting 150 rounds through in just over an hour. Hugely disappointed! There was literally no way for me to predict where the round was going to impact the target. In fact, the rounds were hitting all over the place - top, bottom, left, and right. I was using a standard 50 yard sighting target at 5, 7, and 15 yards and have to say that this was definitely NOT a case of user error. Had no such problems today with my SR9c.

I aligned the top of my sights to the top of one of the target's thick black quadrant lines, dead center, to get a sense of any bullet drop, windage issue, elevation problem, brand differential, etc - no issue whatsoever with the Ruger. Clean, clear, consistent, close groupings every single time. Using the same methodology with the Kahr, one shot would be a foot low, the next six inches to the left, the next a foot to the left, the next a flyer off target, and so on. Time after time, even using a bench rest (50 rounds!), the shots just flew everywhere. One handed dominant, two-handed Weaver, two-handed isoceles, benchrest, the Kahr would not stay on target, ever.

I'm thinking it's that the barrel's rifling is subpar and that the bullet is just flying out with inconsistent or no rotation to it, but maybe someone else has heard of a similar issue and has a different theory? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated because I really want to stick with the PM9.

[TTPower]

have you tried using different brands of ammos ? maybe it was a bad batch of ammos

[heeler]

Definitely not right.
Mine is quite accurate and I am not an expereinced pistolero.
In fact I am very happy how well mine shoots.

[Chief Joseph]

my last outing all of my shots were a little low and to the left. But I changed my grip so I'm allowing for it and will not panic yet. You might wait and give it another day with different ammo before sending it in. This little gun is harder to adjust too, I shoot much better with my cw9 and I shot my friends Kimber ultra carry 2 .45 very accurately the same time I couldn't hit well with my pm9, It is a gun I have to adjust too.

[Kingcreek]

I get very good accuracy out of my pm9 but the long trigger pull took some getting used to. Kahrs are not known for accuracy issues but then again, my friend bought a new Mercedes that was a total lemon.

[johnh]

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, how did you feel your grip was on the PM9? The SR had a larger grip, so you can get more hand around the gun. Moving around like that sounds like a possible grip issue. Try again, very firm in your grip. Not to the point of shaking, but just firm. A second test, have another experienced shooter try it. If you are using quality ammo, and it still seems to group poorly, call kahr. If there is an issue with the pistol, they will certainly take care of it.

[pappy42]

You should know your cababilities. If the pistol is operating outside of those capabilities; then it needs to be looked at by the factory.

[wyntrout]

It could be very helpful to have another person load your magazines with a few randomly placed snapcaps and see how you're really pulling the trigger. Dry firing can be perfect, but pulling the trigger on an unexpectedly non-firing snap cap can tell you a lot that is hidden by the discharge and recoil from live firing.

Also, have someone who's familiar with Kahrs shoot your pistol and see how it groups for him/her. Just watching doesn't help because live firing hides most of the possible trigger pull problems.

Not to disparage you, but we've had "expert pistoleros" come on here with their first outing with a Kahr and saying it's a POS and doesn't shoot consistent, and that the fault couldn't possibly lie with them. I'm not saying that's the case here, but I'm sure a lot of the members here are skeptical and rolling their eyes about it being the gun's fault. It's a different trigger and once you learn to pull the trigger and the trigger alone without jerking or squeezing the entire gun, you'll find the Kahr pretty accurate.

I can still get sloppy and sprinkle the target, but I shoot well enough for the range that I expect to be shooting in self-defense situations. I'm certainly no great shot... my eyes aren't what they used to be and I have no patience and hurry. No offense meant and JMHO.

Wynn:)

[jocko]

u mean wyn, one has to have his eyes open when shooting!!! damn, I am now headed out to the range with my PM9 that I never coUld hit jack s-it with. I just learned something here that just might be the key to my problems. THANK YOU

[wyntrout]

You could close your eyes inside the barn and have a good chance of hitting it then. It's a wonder you haven't worn the rifling out of yours.:)

Wynn:D

[CJB]

+1 on the hidden snapcaps - it works!

When I was more active firearms training, one complaint I got a lot is that the Beretta 92 shot low and to the right. I'd take the gun, same ammo, and put 10 shots right in the center. We're talking only 10meters distance here. No way its shooting six inches low and right. Something about the gun's grip, and folks' expectations made trigger control a more difficult thing to achieve. The running joke was: "If the sights are off, I'll get out the brass hammer and adjust them. If its your trigger finger, I'll use the same hammer, and adjust that instead!"

Keep shooting. Try the snap cap trick. Have someone else shoot the gun too.

[jocko]

I can assure u, snap caps loaded somewhere in ones magazine and u don't know it, will show a shgooter one wayt or the other what is going on. I like many think, hell I'm not anticiapting the "bang" thing and then when I have someone load my magazines for me and insert what ever amount of snap caps in the magazines. Wow.

proof is in the puddin..

u damn right it works.

[OldLincoln]

Wow, did he get the new rubber barrel version? I heard Kahr doesn't want to make a shotgun so the rubber barrel sprays shots all over the place.

But I do understand. I knew a guy whose old pickup refused to go straight when approaching a bar. It would turn in and pafk before he had a chance to correct it. He kept claiming it wasn't his fault but that was long before the Toyota defense and nobody believed him.

[kpm9]

If you were benchresting the weapon, I'd say the barrel/slide lock up is inconsistent or as you stated a bad barrel and a trip back to Kahr is warranted. Send it back and let them fix
it. My Pm9 is VERY VERY Accurate gun, so when you get it fixed, you'll be amazed.

[Roshi98]

All great suggestions, folks. Thanks so much!

I contacted Kahr today and will be sending the pistol back on Wednesday. Tomorrow I'm headed back to the range to get a second opinion first, but given that the shots weren't just low and to one direction but low and all over the place I'd be surprised if user error were the problem. Might be, but I try to be pretty scientific about these things so we'll see.

The 50 round benchrest test pretty much confirmed accuracy observations.

I'm definitely not a pistolero :p but I'm fairly experienced with small double-action firearms so I had a good idea of what to expect. To my joy my PM9's recoil was shockingly small and I didn't feel the need to "fight" the gun at all. My grip was pretty much the same as on the SR9c with the exception of my trigger hand's thumb which I kept necessarily well beneath the slide release (ouch). In all other categories I was very pleased with the performance. I had one failure around round 12 (nosedive) but saw that it had to do with me not setting the round far enough back in the magazine. Ejections were completely consistent, muzzle flip was minimal, and the gun didn't feel chippy or choppy at all.

In other words, apart from the bizarre groupings I really liked shooting this gun, but that "apart from" is kind of the biggest part of having a gun, right? I'll keep you all posted on what transpires.

Thanks again for all of the terrific advice.:D

[Roshi98]

If you were benchresting the weapon, I'd say the barrel/slide lock up is inconsistent or as you stated a bad barrel and a trip back to Kahr is warranted. Send it back and let them fix
it. My Pm9 is VERY VERY Accurate gun, so when you get it fixed, you'll be amazed.

I'm really looking forward to enjoying my gun when it's in good working order. Too bad I'll have to wait a couple of weeks until that moment comes. :( Or maybe I'll just get called out tomorrow at the range as a poor shot and all will be OK.:rolleyes:

[jocko]

roshi98. it sounds like a bad barrel. u have eliminated damn near all other possables, hOPEFUYLLY KAHR IS PICKIG UP THE TAB TO SEND THE GUN BACK, NORMALLY THEY WILL issue a prepaid pickup. U should not have to be out allthis money.

beng you are going out tomorrow and doing a final testing start with a new taqrget at 7 yards off of a rest and save that target for kahr techs to see. no need to shoot more than 20 or so rounds either. If the shots are all over hell's half acre, they will getthe point when they see it. take your time test out correctly to eliminate any possables.

Kinda let us know how this final test came out.

[wyntrout]

With my first Kahr (March '98)- a stainless K9 with night sights - I couldn't hit the target or close to the bullseye. I don't remember what distance I started shooting, but the tendency is to start too far away and I can't see where the bullets are hitting. :eek: The range was at the store and I was trying it out after the gun came in. (I had to order it.) I asked one of the store personnel and he tried it... bang!... dead center... OK... it was the shooter, not the gun. :blushing::rolleyes: It took me a while but I got near the bullseye enough that I thought I could improve.

Jump to January last year after I found my like NIB PM9 DLC with N/S... I couldn't shoot that very well, either. About a month later I got a new PM45 DLC with N/S... off Gunbroker.com. I fell in love with it and got to shooting it satisfactorily. For some reason (I like .45's) I shot better with it and it was a joy to shoot. A month later my P380 finally came in and it was terrific. When I finally got back to shooting the PM9, I found that I could shoot it a lot better. I used to wind up with most at 4-5 inches at 7:30 to 8:00 in a fist sized group. Now I was "sprinkling" them closer to center.
I'm not trying to claim to be a good shot because I'm impatient and start rushing and get sloppy, but I know it's me and I slow down once in a while just to see what happens when I concentrate on doing what I should to hit what I want.

Wynn:):blah: :typing:

[CarlCyrus]

If it was benchrested and spraying all over the place, then something is definately not locking up in the same place each time it comes back into battery. My new PM9 is very accurate. Target below is 200 rounds (100 each location) two-hand crouch, from 7m (21'). Carl