P380 light primer strikes [Archive]

Whaleman

03-15-2011, 03:20 PM

After about 400 rounds through my P380 I started getting light primer strikes. After already sendin back once (early lock back) I decided to check some things out myself. I detailed stripped and cleaned the slide (Not that hard). This did not help. I then decided to order new recoil, extractor and striker springs. I just installed the new ones. New recoil springs 1/4" longer, new extractor spring 1/8" longer and believe it or not the new striker spring was 3/8" longer. It was way harder to put back together. Is this normal spring length slack for 400 rounds? Thanks, Dan

doctorxring

03-15-2011, 11:06 PM

.

I had my first light strike at around 100 rounds or so. Maybe
4 more by the 300 round point with 2 in the last 50 rounds.
I decided I could not trust this gun for carry as is, so I called
Kahr today.

They told me it was due to the recoil spring and they would
be sending me a new one out. He said that the new one is
rated "higher" than the one in my pistol.

This sounds reasonable. I don't see how it could be much else
with it being so intermittent. The very last part of the compression
stroke is pretty light on this gun so if it did drag just a couple of
thousandths on lock up, that would be enough to cause a light
strike.

I will report back on this thread after I get the new spring and
run a couple of boxes through the gun.

dxr

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CJB

03-15-2011, 11:41 PM

Ya gotta remember that the more stressed the spring, the more its going to change.

The old saying is: Don't make it how you want it to be, make it so it will become what you want it to be.

Springs are intentionally made longer and stiffer than they would normally be, to account for the loss of tension and collapse with stress. Once stressed, it should stay pretty much the same for a long time, assuming the stress level (compressed length, heat, and how rapidly its compressed) doesn't rise.

doctorxring

03-16-2011, 12:04 AM

Whaleman

03-16-2011, 06:23 AM

With all new springs installed the gun racks harder than before and I notice a stiffer trigger pull with the way more powerful striker spring. Dan

Whaleman

03-16-2011, 06:27 AM

In retrospect I wish I had counted the coils in the old and new striker springs. I really don't know if it a new spec spring or if my old one was just compressed. The next time I detail strip it I will. I agree with the Doctor that the recoil springs are much stiffer than even when my gun was new. Dan

jocko

03-16-2011, 07:32 AM

With all new springs installed the gun racks harder than before and I notice a stiffer trigger pull with the way more powerful striker spring. Dan

kahrs striker springs have not changed in the P380. What ur feeling at the very first go with new springs is the "felt feel" before the springs take their normal set. Now they for some reason did change the inner reecoil spring in the P380. I was told by one who counted the old and the new that they added one coil, Can't see how that jwould make much "felt" feel difference either but they did change the inner spring:cheer2:

jocko

03-16-2011, 07:37 AM

.

What I want is for this is to be a reliable gun. And I'm
a little miffed right now about this one. Especially after reading
about all the P380 owners that have reported light strikes,
multiple returns of these pistols to Kahr, and some of
them still light striking when they get them back. Some on
the first shot. This is not good and I smell a fish.

dxr

.

doc. ur first sentence says it all. Light strikes in the P380 is due to an out of time gun and most of the time in the P380 it is an out of spec trigger bar. If the slide is not bad, then it damn near has to be the trigger bar. It is not a spring related thing in the P380

doctorxring

03-16-2011, 03:14 PM

.

Jocko

I called Kahr again and spoke to Ian about my P380 as
I wanted to further discuss the causative issues around
this light-strike performance on my P380. (I'm not sure
who I talked to yesterday, but it wasn't Ian).

He's a patient guy putting up with my demanding ways.
I can also be a might prickly. But that's why I chose
Kahr. I want the best. And I plan on carrying this gun
and I can't have any question about it firing.

He said with my problem, being that it was around a 4 or 5%
light strike issue that it was indeed likely to be spring related.
He said that higher rates of ignition failure could be a frame
related problem, (like over 50%). He confirmed that the inner
spring was a higher rate spring than the first springs they
put in the P380, but wasn't sure what vintage my original spring
was. Regardless, he said if this did not cure it that they
would bring the pistol in house and make it work. Again, that's
all I want is a P380 that's as reliable as my PM9. Which is 100%.
I know without a doubt if I engage with the PM9 it's going to run
until it's empty. I must have that confidence in this P380 or it
will be history. I really don't want to go there as I love this little
gun. Damn is it accurate and smooth when it goes off !

dxr

.

jocko

03-16-2011, 04:51 PM

hopefully they are right, won't take u long to find that out either. Keep us informed.
How new or how old is your P380??

Whaleman

03-16-2011, 07:56 PM

I spent $36.82 delivered for all the springs and a striker spring guide at $3.30. I am happy with how the gun feels but I will know more on Friday as I get to the range at lunch time. Dan

doctorxring

03-16-2011, 10:51 PM

.

Serial on mine is RB320X

I picked it up a couple of months ago, new, on Gunbroker.

Chris

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Whaleman

03-18-2011, 07:38 PM

I went to the range today at lunch. Shot 175 rounds ( Rem FMJ, Hornady JHP, and a couple clips of Buffalo Bore 95 JHP +P) Total perfection!!! I have nothing to report but perfect operation of the gun. I was actually expecting to be disappointed and was prepared to send back a second time. If I have to replace the striker spring and recoil springs once a year or so I really don't care if the gun works perfect. I could not be happier about how this range session went. I know a lot of you expect a 175 round session to be perfect but I have to admit I have not had that with this gun until today. Thanks for all your comments and advice. Dan

onegun

03-18-2011, 09:09 PM

Great to hear some good news. Hope mine gets back and acts that well.

scotchlouis

03-21-2011, 08:50 PM

What ammo were you using when you got the light strikes?

I'm also having light primer strikes with my p380. It only happened a couple of times out of the 400 rounds I've put through it. It happened once on the latter end of the break-in period (around rd 150), then happened today again (around rd 350). Both times was with Cor-bon DPX (2 out of 100 rounds of DPX). It didn't happen with any other ammo including WWB and PMC. I was able to rechamber the round and successfully fire it on the second try. Not sure if it was bad ammo, or the gun. I'd hate to blame either, and although I'd like to continue to use DPX as my defensive round, it's too expensive keep trying out.

What do you think the likelihood of it being bad ammo?

onegun

03-21-2011, 09:20 PM

What ammo were you using when you got the light strikes?

In mine it was everything I could find - five brands of good American ammo.

What do you think the likelihood of it being bad ammo?

Seriously doubt it.

I'm hoping for the best, but not optimistic. It's a neat little gun.

Jinx

03-22-2011, 06:14 AM

Joining into this thread (and following).

with an RB19xx also purchased new off gunbroker.

I'm somewhere around 90-100 round mark and had my first lightstrike today. only fired about 20 shots today and the light strike happend somewhere in the middle of those 20 shots. Also had 1 stove pipe (for a total of about 3 or 4). Admittedly though this while using HSM orange box 'one reloaded' ammo from sportsmans wearhouse. But i'm recording my experience here anyways. Will try to shoot some more winchester white box through it as it fed that pretty nicely originally.

Seems a pattern of specific older models of the 380 having light strikes starting 100 rounds and onward..

has anyone tried to just push forward and approach 600-800 rounds without having the light strike repaired or looked at? (just seeing if a bit more breakin solves the problem? i asume not, but just curious anyways).

Can someone point me to an explination of how the recoil spring effects a light primer strike? I am not doubting any word said here, i just dont get it myself, and it must be something inherent in the design of the pistol with how the two things are related, and i just want to learn :)

jocko

03-22-2011, 07:27 AM

Jinx

03-30-2011, 07:31 AM

the recoil spring returns the slide back into full battery. if by chance you have a round that is alittle tight going into the chamber, the slide will look like it is in full battery but it is not and a light striker will happen. IT IS THEN OUT OF TIME. A good recoil spring, if that be the case can help alot. sometimes not. It is always best to try a new recoil spring just to test out. Normally it seems it is the result of a trigger bar being out of spec. Smetimes the bullet gets alittle lodged in the throat of the barrel and causes a light strike. U can';t see tha thappening and a round with to long of a bullet in it will cause a light strike. Not theguns fault. One needs to know where to look when an issue comes up like that asu need to eli9minate all the possables before getting to excited about sending it back. I think I wopuld try some good other brand fmj ammo to test out the gun. then decide what path you need to follow..

So if the slide is not completely forward it will cause a light strike? Is that to say that the firing pin's distance that it protrudes from the slide block (upon firing) is not as far out as when the gun is in full battery?

Since i've only had 1 lightstrike so far, I'm not panicking yet. I need to ge tback to the range in the next week or two if I can and see what happens. I'll take only the kahr so i dont get distracted with any other pistols :)

Cokeman

03-30-2011, 09:35 PM

Is the slide not coming all the way forward because the round is not going all the way into the chamber? I got bullets today for the first time for the P380. I dropped one into the chamber and it didn't go in. I had to push it in. It came out much easier than going in. I'm thinking it may need a polish. Any thoughts?

Cokeman

05-08-2011, 09:46 PM

Are you sure that your striker isn't fine and that your slide isn't staying open just a hair. That's what mine was doing. The slide would stay open and the striker would barely hit the primer. I polished the chamber with a Dremel and a felt tip. I also smoothed the mag lips with an emery board. It worked fine after that.

flyboy

05-08-2011, 10:07 PM

Not sure of anything Cokeman, except what I showed in the video clip.:)

Would you mind telling me whether your striker spring is still in compression after the striker block is released?

Cokeman

05-09-2011, 12:30 AM

I think mine acts just like the one in the video.

Is the video saying that the striker should snap forward when the striker block is pushed in?

flyboy

05-09-2011, 12:44 AM

Is the video saying that the striker should snap forward when the striker block is pushed in?

I'm asking whether the striker should snap forward, because it seems to me that the striker has very low mass, and resulting low inertia. Since I don't have any spare P380's handy to compare and contrast, I'm asking other owners.

Cokeman

05-09-2011, 01:10 AM

No. The striker should not snap forward when the striker block is pressed. The striker block's purpose is to block the striker once it's cocked so that it can't hit the primer accidentally. The trigger has to press the block out of the way for the striker to be able to hit the primer. The trigger assembly pulls the striker back and releases it. The striker block releases nothing.

jocko

05-09-2011, 05:38 AM

I thnik I would try a new striker spring. the compression u stated is normal. as every spring takes a pre designed set. Your spring is not to short IMO but It could be week for some reason. My bet is that your gun is out of time and that is what is making it feel it is not releasong fully, which ideed it is not. That could be a slide that is not completely in full battery or more than likely an out of spec trigger bar, which I will put money on the trigger bar.

If you look at the cocking cam that is what cocks the striker and also at the same precise time pushs up on the striker bock and then as the trigger is fully pulled back the cocking cam now slips off that nub on the back of the striker releasing it. That is why it is such a smooth trigger system. the cocking cam is the ingenious part that does two things at one time.But you can also see that if that gun is the slightest out of time, all things then don't work in sync.

The spring pressure starts when the cocking cam starts to move the striker backwards, not until then and then when it finally release that strtiker is like an arroow on a bow,it is in free flight to te primer.

flyboy, what ur gun is experiecing is light strikes due to an out of time gun, IMO not the striker spring. I thinkj the gun needs to go back. I will pm u with a test idea.

Cokeman

05-09-2011, 09:25 PM

Why don't you post the test idea. It might be helpful to others.

jocko

05-09-2011, 09:32 PM

Why don't you post the test idea. It might be helpful to others.

but I am not sure if it will even work the way I think I want him to do it with what information I gave to him in the PM. If it tells us what we want to know I will indeed post it. It is not a fix in any way but just a test to see if and what is causing his light strikes. no sense in my posting something that is not gonna work at all

flyboy

05-09-2011, 11:16 PM

Kahr suspect sweak recoil springs, and that the slide is not closing by like .0001". If that's true the gap is certainly not visible.They're sending springs for me to try.

After talking to Kahr I fired the weapon again, and when I had a light strike FTF I pulled the slide back just enough to recock the striker without ejecting the cartridge, let the slide snap forward, then bumped the back of the slide with the heel of my palm to ensure the slide was full forward. 2nd try the round fired every time (3 FTF's out of 80 rounds premium ammo)

Chase Snodgrass
Presidio, Texas

Cokeman

05-09-2011, 11:22 PM

So what are you saying? The slide was not closing all the way and causing the light strikes?

flyboy

05-09-2011, 11:28 PM

Well that's what Kahr suspected based on their knowledge of past problems with the P380. My experiment may or may not confirm this - cause and effect not yet proven - but I gotta tell ya I'm not feeling real confident about using this expensive hardware as a defensive weapon.

Cokeman

05-09-2011, 11:59 PM

Other things that I suspect are a tight (non-smooth) chamber, non-smooth mag lips, and too much upward pressure from the mag pushing the top round against the bottom of the slide. Possibly all three in combination. I'm sure other things could contribute to a gun not returning to battery. Weak springs, burrs, surfaces that were machined incorrectly, certain ammo, etc.

jocko

05-10-2011, 07:44 AM

So what are you saying? The slide was not closing all the way and causing the light strikes?

the slide althoughy looks closed is not fully closing then the gun is now out of time and light strikes will prevaill The first thing toalways check/replace is the recoil springs. More than likely this moight solve ones issues...

Cokeman

05-10-2011, 09:57 PM

That's what I've been thinking and hinting at for the last couple of days. I don't think these guns have light primer strikes because the striker spring is too short or because the striker channel is dirty which could happen I suppose. Light primer strikes are common because failure to return to battery is common in these guns. Stronger springs will help, but are they fixing the problem or treating the symptoms of another problem? My gun had FRTB problems when it was new. The springs seemed plenty strong and the slide was extremely hard to cycle by hand. Before I ever shot it, I tried dropping a round in the chamber and it wouldn't go in. I had to force it in. After the FRTB problems, I polished the chamber and mag lips and I can now drop a round in easily. The gun has worked great since. Springs can make the gun work better, but will you have to replace them more often because the slide stops closing again? Maybe by that time the gun will be broken in better and they won't need to be replaced. I could be totally wrong, but this is what I'm noticing by reading posts here. Kahr seems to blame and replace springs a lot. Is that because they know it will probably make the gun work better until it fully breaks in? I've noticed that they also polish the ramp and chamber every time probably because they know it helps. Just my observations.

flyboy

05-10-2011, 10:04 PM

For what it's worth, the chamber on my P380 is not tight at all. Cartridges slip in easily and even have a little slack. The ramp is extemely smooth and well polished.

Cokeman

05-10-2011, 10:18 PM

That might be the case but something is holding that slide open. If weak springs were the only problem they would have to be pretty weak to not close the slide. I think they weaken a little and then can't overcome other factors that are affecting the slide's closure.

flyboy

05-10-2011, 10:34 PM

I just assembled the weapon without the recoil springs to see if I could detect any friction or hangups in the slide. The striker spring suddenly feels very strong, but after I pull the trigger that last half inch moves with very, very, low friction. Will be interesting to see whether the new recoil springs make a difference. If they don't, then some part(s) would have to be out of spec, I suppose.

Cokeman

05-10-2011, 11:11 PM

They probably will make a difference. All springs weaken over time. That's great that they are sending you some. Did you try it with a round in the chamber to see if there was any resistance? Maybe the extractor is the thing that's holding the slide open. If you put it back together, can you pull the slide open 1/8-1/4inch and make it stay open when you let go?

flyboy

05-10-2011, 11:20 PM

Good idea. Ok I've tried it. With a round in the chamber I pushed the slide back 1/4", then 1/8", then 1/16" then a LRCH, and each time released VERY slowly trying to make the slide stick open. Every time, no matter how little I open the slide or how gently I release the slide, the slide appears to quickly snap shut with no visible evidence that it's not in battery. BTW I've had light primer strikes on the first round with everything clean and shiny. Does not appear to be related to powder buildup, although I'm sure that wouldn't help.

Cokeman

05-10-2011, 11:35 PM

Mine always happened after the gun got dirty. How long have you had it and what's its history?

flyboy

05-10-2011, 11:59 PM

Have had the gun four days. 250 rounds Remington UMC of which 20% FTF light primer strikes first try. Took cleaning kit to the range after 1st 50 dismal failure rate, and cleaned inside and out every 50 rounds or so. Didn't seem to make much difference. Another 80 rounds of Federal 90gr Hydra-Shock of which 3 FTF with me diligently trying to make sure the slide was full forward before pulling the trigger.

Also prepped and lubed per the sticky instructions

Cokeman

05-11-2011, 12:12 AM

I pushed the slide back 1/4", then 1/8", then 1/16" then a LRCH, and each time released VERY slowly trying to make the slide stick open. Every time, no matter how little I open the slide or how gently I release the slide, the slide appears to quickly snap shut with no visible evidence that it's not in battery.

Try it again with a full mag inserted, with or without one in the chamber. Any difference?

flyboy

05-11-2011, 12:22 AM

Cokeman

05-11-2011, 12:47 AM

Mine does that too. I have to hold it in the right spot and let go to get it to stay. If I pull the slide and release it at all, it closes fine. Mine never failed to return to battery on the first round out of the mag when I was shooting. Can you make it stay open with three rounds in the mag or one?

jocko

05-11-2011, 07:25 AM

Bingo! With the added friction of the magazine pushing up on the slide while a round is in the chamber I can make it hang open just a tad when I really work at it. That does sounds like something stronger recoil springs might help.

that will indeed help, along with good proper lub and just more rounds down range. Things just sometimes seem tosmmoth out and these little glitchs soon dissappear. Ur close to getting it IMO. I always run a figer of greaseon that interface bar on the bottom of the slide. not that u can see that grease but it is there ad I think it helps somewhat to.:blah:

flyboy

05-17-2011, 01:06 PM

The recoil springs didn't fix this gun's many problems. The new springs were longer, and it took a little more effort to install them as compared to the original springs. Besides the light primer strikes, which were and are the main problem, this P380 still locks the slide back halfway through a magazine sometimes, and sometimes the casings fail to eject completely. It's going back to Kahr for warranty work. Very disappointing considering that I decided to spend the extra $ assuming the reliability would be better than less expensive competitors. Boy, was I wrong about that!

jocko

05-17-2011, 01:54 PM

a shame, u bet send it back, call and ask that they issue a pre paid pickup n the gun to. It will get you a very fast turn around. I feel your pain to. IMO I still feel the P380 is a very problematic gun, the only gun in their line to be like it is to . Why thgey work right, they are truly a dream pocket gun, nothing in its class IMO, but in ur case been there done that. send the damn thing back. document allthat you have done for them to, so that the techs have a starting palce, document what it is doing also. let them know what brands of ammo u arehaving issues with to.

call and ask for eion or Jay..

jtsmall

06-11-2017, 06:04 PM

Six years later I'm interested in how flyboy resolved his issues.

I have been under the same or similar cloud for the past seven months from day one with my copy of the CW380. In the meantime I've added a Ruger LCPII almost the day it was stocked and this past week an M&P BodyGuard 380. Both at about 200 rounds without a hiccup.

Still the Kahr feels better to shoot, warts and all. But so far not reliable to carry. I doubt I'll ever trust as I'm now about 700 rounds down range.

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