Surprisingly Bad Service from Kahr

[sessna]

I recently purchased a used PM9. The pistol was most likely made around 1994-1995 and the seller advised that he only put about 200 rounds through it. Before I purchased it I did lots of research and saw all the complaints about FTF issues. After realizing that most of the FTF issues have to do with lazy sling-shotting that could be solved by ripped the slide back or locking the slide open and feeding the first round by using the slide release. I took the gun to the range and put 100 round through it with no FTF. I did however had an issue with the mag releasing.

After a round or two I'd pull the trigger and nothing would happen. I'd look and the mag was pushed a little out of the grip. I made sure my thumbs were nowhere near the mag release and it still did it. Mind you my Glock loving friend gave me lots of "I told you so" comments because he had had friends that had reliability issues with Kahrs. Upon doing more research I saw that the mad catch was polymer and if it fails, to replace it with the new steel mag catch. Everyone I could find discussing the issue said Kahr replaced the mag catch free of charge.

I call Kahr and they told me to order the part. OK, I know it's a used gun that well out of warranty, but a couple hundred rounds into a pistol's life should not wear ANYTHING out. I ordered the part and also ordered a new mag catch spring for good measure. I replaced the mag catch and was in AWE of how poorly designed that mag catch was. Looked like it wouldn't be fit in a toy gun. I tried installing the new spring and I just couldn't get it to fit. After wasting 20 minutes of my life, I took the spring out realized that the new spring was several mm longer than the original one. GREAT!

I contact Kahr and they asked for a photo of the two springs. I provided the photo and they wrote back that the mag catch was formally polymer, suffered wear and needed periodic replacement just like the recoil spring. They added that the new springs were longer than the old ones and needed slight modification in order to me made to fit. WTF? Why did I have to take it all apart AGAIN and take a photo? Also, a recoil spring is activated 6-7 times more than a mag catch is. I just find the entire experience unsatisfactory. You make a self-defense weapon reliable because you're life may depend on it. If you screw something up, you fix it. FOR FREE!

[wyntrout]

The pistol is a lot more recent than that. The K9 was Kahr's first pistol around 1995... all steel and polymers came in a lot later.

New springs SHOULD be longer than old ones, but usually should have the same coil count. The springs are designed to work optimally after taking a set... retained compression or shortening. Things change, though, as in design and modifications of parts. The newer parts don't necessarily fit all models and older models especially.

If you modify the spring, first compare the coil count with the springs next to each and oriented the same way. Don't whack them all off at once, but a half coil at a time until things work OK.

Wynn

[jocko]

sessna: Peddle it, ur never gonna be happy. it is very evident. What is the serial #of your gun, you can go to thei kahr tech section and see with in a few months exactly how old the gun is.

[wyntrout]

Justin Moon patented the polymer pistol in 2002:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=EkMJAAAAEBAJ&printsec=drawing&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

Wynn :)

[gb6491]

Wynn,
I believe Sessna is referring to the magazine latch spring; it's a straight wire type.

Sessna,
Welcome to the forums.
In regards to the latch design, you probably won't like Glock's either as Kahr's system (in their poly frame guns) is very much like the one Glock uses. Kahr has evolved theirs as well; poly latch>poly with metal insert>all metal. I agree that they probably should have sent an upgraded part for free (especially if it's to fix/replace a worn part). You might also consider that your pistol has more rounds down range than you were led to believe.
In regards to the extra length replacement spring, I have no idea why it came that way. Personally, that extra length would not be an issue with me, as I could adjust it for optimal fit in my pistol.
Hope the pistol works out for you.
Regards,
Greg

[wyntrout]

Oh, I wasn't paying enough attention... not unusual.:rolleyes: The mag catch spring should be easy to match to the old one. I would try the old spring with the new mag catch first, though, to see if the length was still the same or requires a new length.

Wynn:)

[jocko]

rounds down range really means nothing in a kahr. but abuse of any gun has alot to do with funtionality. The original polymer mag release worked great. I would venture to guess there are well over 100000K of kahrs out there yet with the polymer magazine catch. If one looks at the catch, they will see a metal insert in the catch. That is what makes contact and holds the magazine in place. Now abuse that somehow and it will give issues. No doubt some were made out of spec to and gave issues. The reason kahr went to the MIM one peace metal part now is that it actually cost more to produce that polymer catch and then have that metal insert placed in that peace precisely. at the time they were thinking about total reduction in weight for that gun. I never had one isse ever with my polymer insert, but I did replace it down the road, because kahr had introduced the MIM part. Slamming a magazine is gonna produce wear either to the magtazine release or to the magazine cut out. You never hear of anyone saying they bought a used gun that had 20,000 rounds in it either. Unless it has been abused and looks like crapola, rounds down range is not gonna show wear. MY PM9 will attest to that. It looks new, and it sure in hell ain't.

I'm wondering what change they made in the mag catch itself . As I don't think kahr changed the internal structure of the grip to accept a longer spring either, or also why it would not accept a longer spring even.

If I was the owner of this gun, I would also check the recoil spring asembly, for kahr a few years back made a change in the recoil two peace rod assembly where as the old style had a 3/8" flat washer type on the end of the assembly, where as the new style has the 1/2" flat washer type on it, where it goes against the barrel lug. If u order a new one make sure you order the older style recoil assembly for the blunt nose pM9, as the new style will not fit. They no longer make the 3/8" size, so do't get alarmed if you get the 1/2" size ,,, it will fit and function perfectly Kahr will not send you a new one no charge either. KAHR PART NO. 005PM9 ASSEMBLY OLD STYLE $23.10

[sessna]

I'm sorry... brain-fart. I meant it was made 2004-2005. I found this by the VA serial number.

[sessna]

I'm not sure how you can "abuse" a mag catch. It's pushed out as the mag slides in and falls into the notch on the mag. I'd even think that "slamming" it would create less wear than slowly having the catch drag into the notch.

Our duty weapons at work are Glock 22's and I've never heard of a mag popping out on it's own. Can't really find anything online either. You search "PM9 Kahr Mag Problem" and you'll find more than a few people that had issues.

When I took the old catch out, it was polymer with a thin metal insert. It looked like hell! You barely needed any pressure to release it and it was releasing while firing. The MIM catch has a very positive CLICK and needs to be pressed much harder and farther to release. I have no idea why the new spring is longer. It's just too long to fit into the opening on the catch. Maybe new PM9s have a deeper hole in the grip. I guess next time I strip the pistol I'll have to cut the spring.

[Bawanna]

It should work just fine with the old spring. If its working for you I'd not worry about replacing the spring. Its the catch itself that wears or has issues. The spring is rarely the root of the problem.