Take 2 -- New PM9 -- Shot her like I stole her

[CarlCyrus]

Went to the same range as last time. Ran 100 rds of Rem Green Box 115gr ball ammo. Ran that through one 7 round mag and three 6 round mags. That brought me to 300 rounds for break in. Had zero defects and the 7 round mag ran without error. Because of the accuracy of the PM9 the last time around, I started in the top bull. I had just eaten a Big Mac, so I wasn't quite on my game...lots of heartbeat on a full belly. Let a few stragglers wander into the white. :( Next I started through several varieties of PD ammo. Smallest box had 20 rounds, so I ran 20 rounds of each type...one 7 round mag followed by one 6 round mag, followed by one 4 round mag followed by a three round mag. Those went into the bottom bull. Ran: 20 rds 115gr JHP +P Rem Green box 20 rds 115gr HP +P Corbon DPX 20 rds 124gr JHP +P Rem Golden Saber 20 rds 124gr HP Speer Gold Dot 20 rds 124gr HP +P Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel Here is what I ended up with: Fail to feed = 0 Fail to fire = 0 Fail to extract =0 Slide locked rear = 4 All five of the PD types had one time where the slide locked to the rear because the slide lock/release was engaged. Problem occured once with the 7 round mag, and four times with the 6 round mags. I was careful to ensure that my thumb was not in position to lift the slide lock/release. I had previously run 300 rds of Rem 115gr ball without a hiccup, so I'm sure that it was the shape of the ogive of the bullet that caused it to touch the tip of the slide lock that engages the little metal pin in the plastic mag follower. Pushing down on the slide release ran the slide home and the rest of the mag ran without error. Thoughts, guidance, tips on how to correct this problem? Should I take a dremel and very slightly grind/polish the tip of that slide lock? Here is a pic of the target Carl

[bonjorno2]

nice shooting, i wouldn't personally modify the weapon and would replace the spring before I took a tool to it.

[jocko]

#1 call kahr and tell them you have rounds hitting the slide lock lever. They will more than likely send you a new slide stop lever. #2 then, take a small file and touch up that inside tab on the slide lock lever. take the slide off the gun, reinsert the slide stop lever and now insert a loaded magazine with the rounds that was giving you this issues. see what they are doing on that left side. If they are hitting that lever, indeed just file it back a tad and then recheck. dremels can take off to much if ur not careful. Go slowly . Ihad 3 side stoplever replaced on my Para carry 9 before that same issue stopped. Had I know what I knew now, I wouldhave filed one back and just been done with it..

#3 or just not shoot those defense rounds that was giving you this issue and find what works perfect for you..

[Ak Guy]

No offense Carl, but I gotta bet it was your thumb hitting the slide stop during recoil. I know, I know.....you THINK it's no where near it, but I've had similar experience w/ other guns. You really don't know WHERE your thumb is during recoil.....it's too fast and too violent. Have you tried physically locking your thumb out of the way, like w/ the other thumb? ........just a thought.........

[jocko]

shoot the gun left handed, that will tell you if your thumb could have been the culprit

[CarlCyrus]

No offense Carl, but I gotta bet it was your thumb hitting the slide stop during recoil. I know, I know.....you THINK it's no where near it, but I've had similar experience w/ other guns. You really don't know WHERE your thumb is during recoil.....it's too fast and too violent. Have you tried physically locking your thumb out of the way, like w/ the other thumb? ........just a thought.........

That is what I initially thought. But, I ran 300 rds of Rem green box 115 gr ball through it flawlessly before starting the PD rounds.

Once the first incident happened, I thought it might be the thumb. So I really concentrated on a firm grip and thumb placement for the rest of the PD rounds.

When I got home I checked the little tab that hangs over into the mag well. Put an empty mag into it, and noticed that it really engages the metal pin on the mag follower quite a bit...on all mags (checked them all). The engagement is quite significant, it could be trimmed back at least 10 thousandths and still have a significant engagement.

I think I'll write Kahr, tell them the problem, mention my two threads here and see if they will send me another slide stop. If that fixes the problem, great. If not, I'll have one to carefully modify.

I hadn't thought about shooting it left handed, but will try next time I'm at the range. Unfortunately that will be a couple of weeks because I'm all out of PD ammo, and our local Wal Mart and Bass Pro don't carry it. Will probably have to order it from Midway or Lucky Gunner.

Carl

[CarlCyrus]

More info.

Rummaged around my kit and found a box of Rem 124gr hp +P Golden Sabres and a box of Speer 124gr hp +P Gold Dot. I thought I was out of PD rounds but guess not.

Took the slide off and reinserted the slide lock. Loaded all the mags with 2-3 rounds of the Golden Sabres and slowly slid each mag into the mag well. Rounds touched the slide lock sufficiently to move it a few thousandths upward and outward. Ran the same test for the Gold Dots with the same results. Ran the same test with plain Rem 115gr green box (ball)...plenty of clearance between the ogive of the bullet and the slide lock.

So...the problem is very likely the slide lock...extending further into the mag well than is necessary. I don't want to screw with the only slide lock I have so I'll write Kahr and explain the problem and see if I can get another slide lock.

Carl


Ran the same test with

[jocko]

kahr willsend you a new one, and if they do, thbey "screw" with that slide l0ck and just file that nub back a tad, re poloish and retest with a loaded magazine. Once clearance is made,u should be good to go. go slowly and then test with anb empty magazine to see if the follower is picking up that little tab on the slide lock and moving the slide lock lever upward. Keepingin mind you have a new one in the mail.

PM sent to..;

[CarlCyrus]

Here are some pics of the slide lock with respect to the two different types of ammo I was shooting. It is clear that the 115gr ball ammo has plently of clearance between the ogive of the bullet and the tip of the slide lock. It is also clear that the ogive touches the slide lock with the 124gr PD rounds.

Pics taken with a Cannon G12 on macro setting. I love these new cameras almost as much as I love my new PM9. :D

[Snak3]

Did you eat a Big Mac the first time? Maybe try it again on a Whopper or better yet, an empty stomach.

[CarlCyrus]

Did you eat a Big Mac the first time? Maybe try it again on a Whopper or better yet, an empty stomach.

LOL

No, I was on my game the first time around...the second time around that Big Mac really got my cholesterol-laden cardiovascular system pumping. Got to remember to not eat fast food before a BG comes into my abode and learns lesson # 627 in life. :D

Carl

[Ak Guy]

I see what you mean Carl. I just checked mine w/ Gold Dot 124+P and it's got the same zero clearance as you show. Seems unneccessarily close, although I've never had it lock back prematurely, after about 70 rnds of Gold Dot. I think I'll play w/ it tomorrow, and maybe trim that edge just a touch. (If you get a response from Khar I'd be interested in hearing what they say).

[Ak Guy]

I fiddled w/ it some more today. If the top round in the mag is forward about a 1/4 inch it will just barely rub against the slide lock, but not w/ sufficient force to push it up. But I went ahead anyway and polished that contact point w/ some 400 grit paper; just enough to take off any possible sharpness. I'm pretty sure mine's fine, although I didn't have a problem to begin with! Good luck w/ yours, Carl......

[jocko]

Here are some pics of the slide lock with respect to the two different types of ammo I was shooting. It is clear that the 115gr ball ammo has plently of clearance between the ogive of the bullet and the tip of the slide lock. It is also clear that the ogive touches the slide lock with the 124gr PD rounds.

Pics taken with a Cannon G12 on macro setting. I love these new cameras almost as much as I love my new PM9. :D

it brushs that slide lock, it will give u an issue. I would file that nub back just a tad. remember allthat nub has to do is make contact witht he magazine follower, and that little metal peace sticking out of that follower. If these two meet then the slide will lock back on the last round. You should have more cleanrance than that IMNO . 124 grain is what most shoot in the kahrs and it is also what kahr tests shoots their guns with to. Good photos, if u pass them on to kahr they will IMO send u a new slide stop lever. they are machined forged levers so they could be out of spec. Ihad to send 3 slide stop lever back for my Para carry 9 before it solved my premature slide locking issues.. It doesn't take much to fokk things up.

[jocko]

I see what you mean Carl. I just checked mine w/ Gold Dot 124+P and it's got the same zero clearance as you show. Seems unneccessarily close, although I've never had it lock back prematurely, after about 70 rnds of Gold Dot. I think I'll play w/ it tomorrow, and maybe trim that edge just a touch. (If you get a response from Khar I'd be interested in hearing what they say).

is OK, mine is close but never gives an issue. Not alot of room in that mag well area..:third:

[zx5go]

I had the same issue on my new PM9 this weekend when I tried shooting Winchester Ranger (+P 115gr and +P+ 127gr) right after a 350 round break-in with Winchester White Box. As you can see in the picture below it is the same contact issue and I plan to contact Kahr tomorrow.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb42/zx5go/IMG_5350-1.jpg

[gagnejs8]

I don't think the PM9 is rated for +p+. Not that that will affect the mag follower issue, but I'd check into the +p+ before I shot any more of that thru the gun.

[jocko]

email them, send the photo, photos do alot better than words. direct it to Jay or eoin at kahr.

question: is that round moving up the slide stop lever or just glidding past it. Looks to me like a tad could be taken off that little nub right in that one particular pointed area where it seems to be making contact with the bullet.

\they are not rated for +P+ but the round itself should make no difference..

[zx5go]

jocko,
For mine it is interference and not just gliding past it. As you insert the magazine you can see the round deflected to the right. This is with the slide locked so one can assume without the slide locked the tendency would be for the round to first move the slide lock up (which it is). I'll be calling and emailing Kahr tomorrow. I have no doubt that they will take care of it.

[CarlCyrus]

Here is a follow-up pic with Rem Green Box 115gr HP +P. Plenty of room.

Carl

[jocko]

nice photo carl,

[CarlCyrus]

SOLVED the slide-lock problem.

See the conclusion of my other thread on this:

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6066&page=2

Carl

[CarlCyrus]

Been busy this spring. Eldest son graduated from college, I got to swear him in as a 2LT in the U.S. Army, and then married him off.

Finally got some time to get to the range with my PM9 and some PD ammo of various types.

Shot 50 rounds of Seller & Bellot 115 Gr ball...flawless

Shot 50 rounds of Fed HydraShock 124 gr HP...flawless

Shot 25 rounds of Fed HydraShock 147 gr HP...flawless.

After solving the slide-lock problem, this little PM9 will eat anything I throw through her.

I'll probably settle on Speer 124 gr Gold Dot for PD purposes.

I'm a very happy PM9 owner.

Carl