View Full Version : PM9 Locked Slide Problem -- pics of why
CarlCyrus
03-20-2011, 10:32 PM
After two trips to the range with my new PM9, I started to run some PD ammo through it. The Rem Green Box 115 ball ammo ran flawlessly. The PD round had some problems...e.g., they occassionally caused the slide lock to engage with a partially empty/full mag. Here is the reason. First pic is the Rem 115 ball. Second pic is the Rem 124gr HP Golden Sabre. See how there is plenty of clearance between the ogive of the 115 ball round and the slide lock...then see how there is no clearance between the ogive of the 124 HP Golden Sabre.
Jeff00042
03-20-2011, 11:08 PM
Wouldn't you think they could figure this out at the factory!?
BuckeyeBlast
03-21-2011, 05:51 AM
They know, the problem is that they seem to be too arrogant to fix the problem.
wyntrout
03-21-2011, 10:39 AM
You can hone or file a bit off the actuator, but the 9mm cartridges are pulled forward by the top round as they are loaded and will still strike it... probably, requiring more tinkering.
Remington seems to make the longest overall cartridges.
Wynn
BuckeyeBlast
03-21-2011, 11:05 AM
You can hone or file a bit off the actuator, but the 9mm cartridges are pulled forward by the top round as they are loaded and will still strike it... probably, requiring more tinkering.
Remington seems to make the longest overall cartridges.
Wynn
Yup. And what pizzes me off is that Kahr refuses to acknowledge this problem. My P380 does the exact same thing, only w/ the even thinner P380 wrapped around a cartridge w/ almost the same dimensions, the fit is even tighter and there's even less room to file the lever without going too far and then not having the mag follower actuate it as it's supposed to.
Anyone want to bet that the CM9 will have the exact same issue? :31:
wyntrout
03-21-2011, 11:18 AM
I had that problem with the P380 and finally gave up and sent it back with my PM45 that had the replacement slide that was so faint you had to hold it in the light just right to see what the heck kind of gun it was. The P380 came back working fine. The PM45 had to go back a 4th time to get a new frame because it had started eating/destroying magazines! 5 out of 6 had the upper rear corners splitting and they were evidently able to duplicate that and wound up giving me a new frame. I'm not sure there's an original part left on the gun... "Franken-Boomer". It works fine now and they gave me all new magazines, but I've gotten so used to the P380, it's hard to carry something heavier.
Wynn:)
zx5go
03-21-2011, 02:46 PM
Newb here with a question/comment, my new PM9 ran flawless for over 350 rounds using Winchester white box. I felt more than comfortable switching over to some SD rounds for testing (hoping to give it the all clear for daily carry). Each magazine had this slide lock occur at least once. I was testing with Winchester Ranger RA9BA (bonded) and RA9TA. I switched to Federal HST FC-9HST1 and did not have an issue.
I had never had such an issue and at the range I had mis-diagnosed the issue as a failure to feed but after reading this I believe the pistol was going into slide lock. I'll take a closer look tonight.
Does anyone have a list of SD ammo that this does and doesn't happen with in the Kahr?
Bawanna
03-21-2011, 02:50 PM
Kahrs are not generally finicky about their diet. Your slide lock might just need a little tweeking to handle those Winchesters.
In that respect I guess each would be different. Some will feed the Winchester well, others might need a little tweek.
I'd work at making it take anything on the menu myself.
zx5go
03-21-2011, 02:56 PM
Kahrs are not generally finicky about their diet. Your slide lock might just need a little tweeking to handle those Winchesters.
In that respect I guess each would be different. Some will feed the Winchester well, others might need a little tweek.
I'd work at making it take anything on the menu myself.
I'm up for tweeking...can you point me in the right direction on what/how?
dilson123
03-21-2011, 04:27 PM
i am new here too, i hear people say this company knows about this problem but won't do any thing about it. i have also experienced this same problem. this is a firearm made specifically for concealed carry and you can not trust it to go bang. i had hoped they had been making these long enough to work out the problems but i guess not. the only semi auto pistols i have never had any issue with shoot and cycle every kind of ammo are my springfield armory sub compact 9mm and 40 s&w. also my ruger lc9 at this point only about 400 rounds through it. i fear i have wasted my money on this overrated firearm.
jocko
03-21-2011, 04:32 PM
zx54go: take the slide off the gun, reinsert the slid elock lever and now insert a loaded magazine with the rounds what was givningyou premature slide lock open. and look on the left side inside the mag well area. See if those buyllets are touching that slide lock lever on the inside and moving that lever upward. doesn't take much to engage that slide lo0ck lever. If they are hitting, call kahr and ask for eoin or jAY AND EXPLAIN to them what ishappening. they will probalby send you a new slide stop lever. If they do that, then with the old lever in the gun, take it out and with a smallfine file , file down that little nub a tad where the bullets are making contact with it and retest again Once clear, u should be good to go. with a new one in the mail u have nothing to loose in doing the mod yourself. Kahrs are not ammo sensitive, but for me once you fine a defense round that feeds and shoots perfectly, just stick with it. they all will do the job if u do your part.
CarlCyrus
03-22-2011, 06:32 AM
Decided to check my MK9. It has eaten everything I've thrown into it. The Rem Green Box 115 ball ammo shows lots of room. The Rem Green Box 115 HP +P still shows lots of room. But the Rem Golden Sabre 124 HP +P is almost touching the slide lock. It doesn't touch, but is close.
Carl
CarlCyrus
03-22-2011, 06:34 AM
Oops, that second pic is of the PM9. Here is that Rem Green Box 115 HP +P again with the MK9.
Carl
CarlCyrus
03-22-2011, 06:36 AM
It is clear to me that the PM9 and MK9 were designed to handle 115gr ball and HP ammo A-OK. Once you get into the 124gr bullet, things get tight in that mag well.
Anyone successfully shoot 147gr PD ammo in one of these?
Carl
jocko
03-22-2011, 07:08 AM
I shoot the 147 fmj wwb for range fodder and have zero issues. Kahr basically designed the PM9 around the 124 grain bullet. ,The guns should shoot um all, and they will. OAL plays a big part in what will work and what won't. especially reloaders. Sometimes they need to seat the bullet alityle more. I shoot primarily 115 wwb for range fodder and 124 grain in a defense round, but I bought about a year ago a 1000 rounds of 147 wwb fmj at wal mart for $7.95 a box, just to good of a price to pass up as I don't mess with 147 grain ammo but it works perfect out of my M9 and K9..
deadhead1971
03-22-2011, 07:51 AM
shot these with no issues--
Speer Gold Dots HP (124 gr and 124 gr +P short barrel)
Federal Hydra-Shok 124 grain hp
Pow'r Ball 100 grain +P
some cheap winchester personal defense stuff 147 grain hp
I have never tried Golden Sabre but they do look too long.
zx5go
03-22-2011, 10:11 AM
Seems like we're running at least part of this conversation in two threads. The other conversation is here http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6047&page=3
I emailed my picture and explanation to Kahr and had a response back in only a matter of minutes. Jay understood my description of the problem and offered to send a new slide stop or stated I could send the entire pistol back for them to correct the situation. I took the first option, new slide stop, as a starting point. I did indicate to Jay that there were a couple of threads on this forum with other users having the issue. Very quick and professional response that addressed the issue and did not attempt to lay blame on a certain brand of ammo...just what I expect from a top notch company.
jocko
03-22-2011, 11:12 AM
nice response, Keep his email and if u need to send it back you have their statement telling u so. I do think NOW that I would take a fine file to that nub on the slide lock lever and rework it yourself, as u have anew back up in the mail. It is a win win for you. Wouldn't be the first slide lock lever that has had to be reworked and I mean for many other brands also. As long as that metal insert in the magazine follower picks up that slide stop lever properly, then you can relieave that nub a tad. With an empty magazine inserted u can see very easily what needs to be done..Keep; us posted...
wyntrout
03-22-2011, 11:29 AM
Take a loaded 9mm magazine and chamber a round. Then remove the magazine and look at the top round. It's usually pulled forward a bit and can strike the slide lock actuator in the next couple of rounds. Just checking with the rounds all the way to the rear doesn't cover this. The 9mm is really prone to this and especially with the 7-round magazine.
Wynn
Lobo_79
03-23-2011, 07:46 AM
Anyone successfully shoot 147gr PD ammo in one of these?
Carl
I've cycled a lot of 147 gr JHP (Golden Sabers) through my PM9 without a problem. I was curious as to whether or not the gun would handle this round. So, from a sample size of one, I'd say they work fine.
CarlCyrus
03-23-2011, 09:11 PM
Sent an e-mail with links to the threads here and lots of pics. Jay replied and they are sending me a new slide-lock.
Can't wait to test it out.
Carl
Speedy
03-24-2011, 11:00 AM
Take a loaded 9mm magazine and chamber a round. Then remove the magazine and look at the top round. It's usually pulled forward a bit and can strike the slide lock actuator in the next couple of rounds. Just checking with the rounds all the way to the rear doesn't cover this. The 9mm is really prone to this and especially with the 7-round magazine.
Wynn
My MK9 is locking the slide with rounds still in the magazine:(
I think this is the problem Im having. This combined with the fact that the top round is usually loose in the mag (it has play and can be wiggled to the right or left).
I took a fully loaded mag and pushed the bullet all the way left,
inserted it in the gun with no slide,
and it grazes the slide stop most of the time!:(:confused:
Any thoughts Wynn?
(i'm waiting on some new slide stop lever springs to see if tightening it up will solve that problem)
BuckeyeBlast
03-24-2011, 11:40 AM
Well, I again took off more metal from my slide stop on my P380. If I take any more off, the mag follower won't engage. It looks like it'll be OK from cycling at home, we'll see how it performs with live fire. Frustrating to have these problems with a higher-end, self-defense firearm.
jocko
03-24-2011, 11:54 AM
I am sure pushing the bullet to the left acncause what your saying, Not sure that when a loaded maagaizne is inserted that that is the case though. the top round in kahr magazines are not as tight as someother gum makers mags are. I do feel it is that way be design. Rounds should not be hitting the sldie stop lever PERIOD Get a new slide stop if they are, then whiddle back the original one to get the clearance u need. Some rounds in some kahrs for some strange reason just don't do well as other might. My adive is with all the great defense rounds out there, just find the one good round that does what you want and be done with it. Gun makes make guns, ammo makers make ammo, sometimes the two just don't mate up right . We tend to blame the gun and maybe not the round, or we blame the round and not the gun. If one feels a gun should shoot every round made, I think they could be wrong there. A good case in point is the Rohrbagu R9, one very very expensive pocket rocket, well over a grand. They tell you what ammo to shoot even and it ain't gonna shoot 147 grain ammo either. My P380 was ot very friendly to 102 gr golden sabre ammo, so I just went to something else. I think maybe I could have dicked with it and got it reliabe but then I just never trusted the gun with that one round, or should have I said I never trusted that round in that gun..
Speedy
03-24-2011, 12:16 PM
frustrating to have these problems with a higher-end, self-defense firearm.
agreed!
Speedy
03-24-2011, 12:23 PM
Jocko, i agree the problem COULD be the ammo, BUT i tried several different brands, grains, jhp, fmj, and it has the same problem with all of them.
point is, if all it takes is a little pressure to push the top round of a mag to the left, whats to keep the rest from jumping out of place. I talked with the kahr tech (Ian) and he DID say it was by design.
so...I'm gonna try and tighten up the spring 1st,
if that doesnt help, i'll order a new slide stop and start filing. What a PITA!
as for sorry ammo makers....Im remind of the ole sayin'..... "i once put a rock in my glock and it shot it" haha
jocko
03-24-2011, 12:35 PM
yes indeed just ask the Indiana state police about their 1200 G22 thaty bought and had so many issues with them that Glock finally stepped in and replaced every one of them with G17. Same thing with Illinois state police, So try sticking a rock in those and making them go bang. I had a Para carry 9 that had to have 3 slide stop levers before it got right. It just happens, not good when it happens to you or me but it happens. If u love the gun enough to feel it is worth the effort to make it right, then stick with it, if you have lost all faith in it PEDDLE IT amd move to what pleases u. To many other good guns out there to let one get anyone down, no matter what brand. I know glocks are great guns, sold um for years to. I own a G19 and love it but just go to a glock history and see all the internal changes they have made over the years to. They didn't make those changes because they felt like it. Glock are probalby one of the most non problemantic guns out there IMO, but lets fool ourselves into the false perception that glocks don't give isssues, They certaintly do. I just named two major LEO divisions that had issues enough to return them all for something else. If a glock will shoot a rock, then I'm sold for sure. Count me in for 10 of that madel.. Ihave a back yard full of rocks and just think of all the money I can save to.
Speedy
03-24-2011, 01:39 PM
Thats true, with ammo prices on the rise, a rock shooter doesnt sound half bad.
Or how bout some shotgun shells with rocks in 'em? lol
In all seriousness, i have lost all faith in my mk as far as daily carry. Now i'm carrying either the K9 or the G19.
But i have not given up on the little gun yet. I will try to see if I can get it running right cuz i do like the MK a lot.
Bawanna
03-24-2011, 01:51 PM
Thats true, with ammo prices on the rise, a rock shooter doesnt sound half bad.
Or how bout some shotgun shells with rocks in 'em? lol
In all seriousness, i have lost all faith in my mk as far as daily carry. Now i'm carrying either the K9 or the G19.
But i have not given up on the little gun yet. I will try to see if I can get it running right cuz i do like the MK a lot.
Stick with it, it's a great gun, but if you lose all hope let me know. If it's a GC serial number I want it if I can come up with enough marbles that is.
It'll make a perfect grip model..............................
Speedy
03-24-2011, 02:33 PM
It is a GC. But im pretty persistant, and im sure i'll get it up and running.
But that is good to know just in case
Bawanna
03-24-2011, 02:38 PM
I have no doubt you'll get it. Just offering an option. You'll get it.
If you don't get it, and I end up getting it, I'm really gonna get it when the wife finds out I bought a grip model.
So I'm routing for you.
jocko
03-24-2011, 02:47 PM
It is a GC. But im pretty persistant, and im sure i'll get it up and running.
But that is good to know just in case
the problem with ur MK??? Strange they are just very reliable guns...:third:
Speedy
03-24-2011, 02:48 PM
LOL, ah yes, the wives LOL.
Just buy her some flowers ahead of time.
Every time i tell the wife i went shopping, she immediately asks "did you buy ANOTHER GUN?" *while rolling eyes at me*
:D
Speedy
03-24-2011, 02:50 PM
Jocko, well i had two gunsmiths look at it and both said it looks like the spring broke off a small piece.
I hope thats all it is.
Bawanna
03-24-2011, 02:55 PM
LOL, ah yes, the wives LOL.
Just buy her some flowers ahead of time.
Every time i tell the wife i went shopping, she immediately asks "did you buy ANOTHER GUN?" *while rolling eyes at me*
:D
I'm not a big flower guy. We grow em outside. You pay outrageous prices for them for a quick smile, they die and go in the trash in less than a week and I still get the beating.
She likes jewelry, another pretty much wasted effort to me, but at least it last forever, usually don't lose value and its good for more than one smile (usually). Still don't save my beating but she tolerates guns, and I tolerate jewelry.
jocko
03-24-2011, 03:05 PM
Jocko, well i had two gunsmiths look at it and both said it looks like the spring broke off a small piece.
I hope thats all it is.
spring?? that would help alot, do u have any photos etc. :third:
not doubting you but would like to know more, who knows, might be able to help another person with something to look for..
Speedy
03-24-2011, 03:23 PM
I'm not a big flower guy. We grow em outside. You pay outrageous prices for them for a quick smile, they die and go in the trash in less than a week and I still get the beating.
She likes jewelry, another pretty much wasted effort to me, but at least it last forever, usually don't lose value and its good for more than one smile (usually). Still don't save my beating but she tolerates guns, and I tolerate jewelry.
Sounds like a good compromise to me Bawanna!
Im guns, my wife is landscaping/interior design stuff lol.
as far as flowers, i hear ya on the value part. Im a mathmatician and the numbers are far from fair IMO.
BUT
my grandmother used to tell me, "dont bring me flowers when im dead (funeral/grave site), bring them to me now while im alive and can enjoy them!"
For the price of a box of ammo, I can get my wife some flowers (at krogers, nice ones too. or sams club sometimes).
You are right, it doesnt save me from the beating, but it helps a little lol.
Jocko, i will get some more pics up when i get a chance.
Thanks to everyone here for offering help
Gen 12:3 (look it up!)
jocko
03-24-2011, 03:30 PM
maybe pictures not needed even, just what spring might be broken etc.. what was the gun doing???
Speedy
03-24-2011, 04:15 PM
Premature Slide Lock
Locks back with rounds in the mag.
its sparatic, happens with all my MK mags AND with all my K9 mags too!
when i take off the slide and put the slide stop back in the frame, its slightly loose. it rattles but not much. but enough to make me worry about it.
the rounds do NOT his the slide stop unless i intentionally push them to the left, then insert the mag.
thoughts?
jocko
03-24-2011, 05:34 PM
ok, nowI see said the blind man. Indeed it could be that slide lock lever spring on the left side. If you will look in the kahr tech section of gb6491 sticky on cw and other fixes. he shows what a proper working and looking slide stop spring should look like.
I do feel ur issue is in the slide stop spring, being that spring also controlos the slide stop lever from moving outward, it just might be a bad spring. With the MK series it is a no brainer to replace that spring. Indeed call kahr and get a new slide stopspring and then retest. They might just send you that for nuttiun. I don't think you have a bad slide stop lever,u could maybe run that by kahr and see if they will send u a new lever also, but yo might be stgretching it some on that request...
Speedy
03-24-2011, 05:40 PM
Yea, they sent me a spring for free.....although i did buy a 2nd spring at full price plus shipping, plus some extra wood grips :D
Speedy
03-24-2011, 05:42 PM
Oh, and i think the quote is
"i see said the blind man to his deaf dog":D
jocko
03-24-2011, 06:05 PM
Yea, they sent me a spring for free.....although i did buy a 2nd spring at full price plus shipping, plus some extra wood grips :D
saying the gun is stillnot right yet??:third:
Bawanna
03-24-2011, 06:05 PM
oOOH, Here we go with the deaf jokes now. Wonder what the difference between a dog that don't listen and a dog that don't hear is?
Speedy
03-24-2011, 06:08 PM
oOOH, Here we go with the deaf jokes now. Wonder what the difference between a dog that don't listen and a dog that don't hear is?
Bawanna...Please enlighten us:D
Jocko.... nah, im still waiting for the mail man.:31:HURRY UP CARL MALONE!
Speedy
03-25-2011, 04:58 PM
:yell: Shuckin Fhit!:yell:
The brilliant people at Kahr sent me the WRONG Spring! :der:
I said MK9! MK9! HOW DOES THAT SOUND LIKE P9??:31:
Well Jocko, looks like imma have to wait another week to re-test the mk :mad:
CarlCyrus
03-26-2011, 08:26 PM
With a new slide-lock on the way, I decided to take a bit off the nub of the old one and then test fire. Guess I was too timid, because the problem remains with the 124gr PD rounds. Ran 100 rds of 115gr ball flawlessly, but the PD rounds occassionally locked the slide to the rear with ammo remaining in the mag.
Went after it a bit more aggressively tonight. Even after going at it again, there is still a lot of over-hang to engage the mag follower. Once I get my hands on more 124gr PD rounds, I'll test again.
Carl
Bill K
03-26-2011, 08:34 PM
With a new slide-lock on the way, I decided to take a bit off the nub of the old one and then test fire. Guess I was too timid, because the problem remains with the 124gr PD rounds. Ran 100 rds of 115gr ball flawlessly, but the PD rounds occassionally locked the slide to the rear with ammo remaining in the mag.
Went after it a bit more aggressively tonight. Even after going at it again, there is still a lot of over-hang to engage the mag follower. Once I get my hands on more 124gr PD rounds, I'll test again.
Carl
Having the very same issue with my new PM9 so I'm particularly interested in following this thread. Is was told not to use Black Hills ammo (124 +P HP), no mention was made that perhaps the slide lock could be the real culprit. 115 grain break-in ammo cycled without causing the problem.
Good luck,
Bill K.
OldLincoln
03-26-2011, 08:44 PM
Curious why no Black Hills ammo. I haven't heard anything bad about them and their videos show a thoughtful well organized operation. So what's up? I hope Kahr isn't simply black listing ammo because they aren't familiar with it.
CarlCyrus
03-27-2011, 04:26 PM
With a new slide-lock on the way, I decided to take a bit off the nub of the old one and then test fire. Guess I was too timid, because the problem remains with the 124gr PD rounds. Ran 100 rds of 115gr ball flawlessly, but the PD rounds occassionally locked the slide to the rear with ammo remaining in the mag.
Went after it a bit more aggressively tonight. Even after going at it again, there is still a lot of over-hang to engage the mag follower. Once I get my hands on more 124gr PD rounds, I'll test again.
Carl
Couldn't stand it. Went to the range and paid Waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much money for 124gr HP Gold Dots.
Guess my definition of aggressive wasn't as aggresive as I first thought.
Ran 100 rds of Rem Grn Box 115 ball flawlessly. That brings me to 400 rds of 115gr ball...all flawless.
Of the 40 rds of Gold Dots, had one premature slide-lock. Better than last time. Closer to what I want, but still needs a tweak. I'm definately on the right track. Just have to keep tweaking and shooting, tweaking and shooting, until it is flawless.
I won't pay highway robbery for PD ammo again. Will have to wait until I order some at a better price.
Carl
jocko
03-27-2011, 06:50 PM
well we know one thing: the gun is reliable with ammo that is not hitting the slide lock lever, so your on your way to solving your issues. I would tweek that slide lock again, as long as it is being raised by the metal tab inn the magazine follower, then you have not taken off to much. again though do what your doing, go slowly. and just load a magazine with those gold dots and test with the slide off the gun and the slide lock lever back in., You should be able to tweek it without the boom thing happening..
but I think your gonna master this thing, and certainly your gettng much better acquainted with your gun to.
CarlCyrus
03-29-2011, 07:57 PM
I'm going to keep tweaking and shooting and tweaking and shooting until it is perfect.
Carl
CarlCyrus
04-03-2011, 01:14 PM
SOLVED
Just kept triming/polishing then shooting and doing it over again until the new PM9 shoots the 124gr Golden Saber and 124gr Gold Dot rounds.
At the range today, I shot 100 rds of Rem Grn Bx 115gr ball, followed by 25 rds of Rem Golden Saber 124gr, followed by 20 rds of Speer Gold Dot. All were flawles in the PM9. Ran the same test with my older MK9...also flawless.
The Gold Dot seems to have a bullet shape that stays further away from the slide-stop nub than the Golden Saber, so those will probably be my PD round of choice.
Other lesson I learned in this entire test is that the rounds and the mag lips must not have any lubricant on them. Otherwise the 2nd round down in the mag moves forward under recoil and gets under the nub of the slide-stop. So...when the guidance here on KahrTalk says to ensure there is no lub/oil on the mag lips, LISTEN, there is a GOOD reason for it.
Carl
jocko
04-03-2011, 01:49 PM
SOLVED
Just kept triming/polishing then shooting and doing it over again until the new PM9 shoots the 124gr Golden Saber and 124gr Gold Dot rounds.
At the range today, I shot 100 rds of Rem Grn Bx 115gr ball, followed by 25 rds of Rem Golden Saber 124gr, followed by 20 rds of Speer Gold Dot. All were flawles in the PM9. Ran the same test with my older MK9...also flawless.
The Gold Dot seems to have a bullet shape that stays further away from the slide-stop nub than the Golden Saber, so those will probably be my PD round of choice.
Other lesson I learned in this entire test is that the rounds and the mag lips must not have any lubricant on them. Otherwise the 2nd round down in the mag moves forward under recoil and gets under the nub of the slide-stop. So...when the guidance here on KahrTalk says to ensure there is no lub/oil on the mag lips, LISTEN, there is a GOOD reason for it.
Carl
great, u did it all perfecrt. now just shoot it like you stole it.. nice work by the way:target:
Rainman48314
04-03-2011, 08:23 PM
Seems like we're running at least part of this conversation in two threads. The other conversation is here http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6047&page=3
I emailed my picture and explanation to Kahr and had a response back in only a matter of minutes. Jay understood my description of the problem and offered to send a new slide stop or stated I could send the entire pistol back for them to correct the situation. I took the first option, new slide stop, as a starting point. I did indicate to Jay that there were a couple of threads on this forum with other users having the issue. Very quick and professional response that addressed the issue and did not attempt to lay blame on a certain brand of ammo...just what I expect from a top notch company.
This is all fine and well, but, did you ask why a known problem is not rectified at the source before it's sold. Doesn't sound top notch to me.
zx5go
04-03-2011, 08:35 PM
This is all fine and well, but, did you ask why a known problem is not rectified at the source before it's sold. Doesn't sound top notch to me.
Actually, I packed it up and sent it back to them on their dime. Seems too many of us are having this issue and Kahr needs to be taking a deeper look at what's going on.
CarlCyrus
04-04-2011, 06:11 AM
Seems to me to be two issues:
1. Many of the slide-locks in the PM9 are about 25 thousands of an inch too long. They engage the pin in the mag follower by a lot.
2. If there is any oil/lube present on the rounds or the lips of the magazine, the second round down in the mag will slide forward when the top round is chambered. That puts the nose of the bullet beneath the slide-stop. The further the round slides forward, the wider the bullet is at that point, and the higher the chances of the nub being lifted.
I personally don't like the long feed ramp and low-cut magazine design. The old John Browning design in the M1911 has worked well for over a hundred years.
Having said that, I will keep and use my PM9 for SD. It just takes extra caution to ensure that the rounds are absolutely devoid of any trace of oil...same for the mag.
Carl
jocko
04-04-2011, 07:11 AM
it is not a pandemic thing, we have just seen this in the last month pop up and it is not in all models even. They just got some out of spec slide stop levers. They will take care of it, if u have an issue, Why make more out of it than what it is. Sure if it happens to you , it is never a nice thing . I would be surpised even if kahr even makes that slide stop in the first place. Probalby comes to them in the thousands at least.
It is not an across the board issue either..
CarlCyrus
04-04-2011, 03:46 PM
jocko,
I think you are mis-reading me.
I come from an IT background where problems are surfaced, discussed in the open, and lots of solutions are provided. When you have a computer problem, a quick web search will take you to someone who had the same problem and one/more solutions are to be found.
I was taking the same approach here. I had a PM9 that ran 300 115gr ball rounds flawlessly (and accurately), but I had a premature slide-lock problem with 124gr PD rounds. I see that I'm not the only one, so I roll up my sleeves, go to work, take pictures, and finally resolve the problem.
Per the custom in the IT realm, it is appropriate to post a final message tagged with "SOLVED" whereby the solution is discussed.
If that is not appropriate here on KahrTalk, I'll crawl back into my hole and the next time I encounter a problem and I solve it, I'll keep quiet.
Fair enough?
I will go back and edit the previous post so it doesn't seem like a pandemic thing.
Carl
jocko
04-04-2011, 03:58 PM
no one is asking you to do anything, that is ur call. I understand your point and you indeed fixed your problems. I see no reason for u to edit anything you said, nor crawl back into your hole . That is ridicolus IMO.. We have discussed ths slide stop fix many times when it has popped up. I recommend the owner getting a new one first then playing aorund with the old one to see if that fix works.
We have posters here all the time commenting on their issues and their fixes. Again sorry if u took my comments as telling u to go back into your hole. ( Truthfully though u need to get out of that hole and maybe live in a home or apartment). (just joking with u now)..
Rainman48314
04-04-2011, 04:03 PM
Actually, I packed it up and sent it back to them on their dime. Seems too many of us are having this issue and Kahr needs to be taking a deeper look at what's going on.
Thanks, anxious to hear how they handle it. I am looking to get a Kahr PM9, CM9 or CW9 this month, perhaps even within a week.
quikduk
04-07-2011, 04:57 PM
PICTURES PLEASE of the final "fitted" slide lock so I can SEE what you guys are talking about...and since I am not in the presence of Mr. MK.
Thanks.
OAN, I have had a couple of FTF, FTE here and there but it wasn't consistent to make me worry about it. I still carry the MK alternating with my XD9sc. I figure if the poop were to hit the dog...and I had an issue with it, I'd just dive off the X and fix it and then continue...but hopefully I won't be in deep poop...ever...except maybe with the wife...:eek:
Edit: the revised analogy was for Bawanna as he doesn't prefer the acronyms...
zx5go
04-07-2011, 09:10 PM
PM9 was back to me today. They polished the slide stop and test fired. No indication what ammo they tested with but I'm happy with them covering shipping and having it back so quickly. I'll take it to the range tomorrow. I'll do any further polishing myself but hopefully that won't be required. A test with the slide off showed good clearance unless the round in the mag was moved almost completely forward.
CarlCyrus
04-20-2011, 07:19 PM
I received a new slide-lock from Kahr (via Jay). Here is the e-mail I sent him:
"Jay,
I received the black slide-release for my PM9. Thank you.
BTW, based on shooting my MK9, my brother recently purchased a PM9. He
broke it in with approx. 200 rounds of ball ammo, then ran a variety of
PD ammo through it without a single hiccup...even the 147gr variety.
Following my strategy, he is now in the market for an MK9 for range use
(leaving his PM9 for CCW). So between us, we now own four Kahr pistols.
Previously he was carrying a Sig P238 or a Glock. So, I've converted
him to Kahr.
Carl"
The bottom line is that the MK/PM 9 is a very good design. It is accurate, and when the slide-lock is within spec, it is a very reliable weapon. I voted with my wallet and have two (MK9 and PM9).
My only issue is that Kahr needs to pay more attention to the slide-lock and ensure that it is within spec before shipping the weapons. Having the customer send the weapon back or revert to gunsmithing activities is not a good business model.
I consider this problem solved and this thread closed.
Carl
jocko
04-20-2011, 07:35 PM
glad your kahr is running right, I doubt if we had 10 out of spec slide lock levers even reported.
Sometimes it is easy to make a mountain out of a molehill when it happens to the owner what ever the product is.
Daboos
04-23-2011, 07:00 PM
I have an MK9. I took it to the range today and the slide prematurely locked at least once if not two or three times with every magazine. I shot 65 or so rounds of WWB and 13 rounds of 147gr Winchester +P. Only one mag of WWB fired flawlessly. all others had slide lock failures. this prompted me to search Kahrtalk and I found this thread. So I guess that will make me #11 jocko. I will call Kahr on Monday as I'm not a gunsmith and am not interested in working on guns beyond clean, lube, polish, and fire.
Daboos
04-23-2011, 08:27 PM
After reading this thread I pulled out my slide release to inspect it. I noticed it was coming out pretty easy and was not making a strong and definite "click" when going back in. Upon further inspection, I realized the screw holding the slide release spring was loose. I tightened it down and the slide release is making a strong click again. I'm quite sure this was causing my problem. I'll get to the range in the next couple days to verify and repost. Others having this issue of "premature slide locking" may want to check to see if this this screw is loose.
OldLincoln
04-23-2011, 09:57 PM
Yeah, a good friend of mine on this forum is reputed to have a loose screw. Don't recall him have a premature slide locking though.
Rainman48314
04-30-2011, 08:01 PM
After reading this thread I pulled out my slide release to inspect it. I noticed it was coming out pretty easy and was not making a strong and definite "click" when going back in. Upon further inspection, I realized the screw holding the slide release spring was loose. I tightened it down and the slide release is making a strong click again. I'm quite sure this was causing my problem. I'll get to the range in the next couple days to verify and repost. Others having this issue of "premature slide locking" may want to check to see if this this screw is loose.
What size and type screw is that? I don't recognize it.
For what it's worth, those Golden Sabers are some of the fatter rounds out there, and often cause issues with slide releases.
Don't get me wrong, they're my favorite defense load in .45 and .380 (especially since I used to be able to get the bare bullets for reloading, and they were great for bowling pin loads). But I've had to take a stone to a few 1911 slide stops to get them to run reliably.
I had too many issues with them in 9mm pistols, and switched a long time ago to Gold Dots on that platform specifically because of this issue.
72guy
05-11-2011, 11:35 AM
What size and type screw is that? I don't recognize it.
Torx T9. $4 at Sears. Of course, while I was at it, I had to get the 5,6,7,8,& 10.
edit- don't listen to anything I say. See below
jocko
05-11-2011, 11:45 AM
Torx T9. $4 at Sears. Of course, while I was at it, I had to get the 5,6,7,8,& 10.
sure it is a torx T6 for the kahr sideplates and little springhy screw on the slide stop and on the P380 it is a Torx 5
72guy
05-11-2011, 02:18 PM
sure it is a torx T6 for the kahr sideplates and little springhy screw on the slide stop and on the P380 it is a Torx 5
jocko,
You could be right. I just went by the parts list in the owners manual. I think it was part #30.
Of course it helps to look at the parts list for the correct model.:rolleyes: jocko, you're correct. I went out and took the slide off. Slide lock spring screw is a T6. Thanks for the correction.
Speedy
07-08-2011, 05:06 PM
Seems to me to be two issues:
1. Many of the slide-locks in the PM9 are about 25 thousands of an inch too long. They engage the pin in the mag follower by a lot.
2. If there is any oil/lube present on the rounds or the lips of the magazine, the second round down in the mag will slide forward when the top round is chambered. That puts the nose of the bullet beneath the slide-stop. The further the round slides forward, the wider the bullet is at that point, and the higher the chances of the nub being lifted.
I personally don't like the long feed ramp and low-cut magazine design. The old John Browning design in the M1911 has worked well for over a hundred years.
Having said that, I will keep and use my PM9 for SD. It just takes extra caution to ensure that the rounds are absolutely devoid of any trace of oil...same for the mag.
Carl
I gotta question For you Carl.... When you put a fully loaded mag in, chamber a round, pull the mag out, is the top round SLIGHTLY forward?
I ask because I'm still having FTF issues with my MK9 (but my K9 functions great, but the top bullet always rides forward?) Thoughts?
jocko
07-08-2011, 05:08 PM
it is normal for kahrs to do that..
Speedy
07-08-2011, 10:26 PM
Thanks, thats what i was thinking. I sent back the slide stop lever to kahr so they can file it down for me. Hopefully that will fix the problem
ricklee4570
07-09-2011, 07:41 AM
For those of you that have your pistols functioning 100% with fmj ball ammo, but experience premature slide lock with your defense ammo (Speer Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber etc.) AND you do NOT want to file down the slide stop or do any other tinkering, then I would suggest you consider the Hornady Critical Defense load for your carry load.
The Critical Defense ammo is almost "pointy" in profile. It will clear the slide stop with plenty of room to spare and still give you a good defense load to carry without having to file or polish anything.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.