First range trip. Bad results. Advice?

[Mokumbear]

I took my p380 to the range for the 1st time yesterday. A LOT of problems.
I also took my Walther PPS 9mm for the 2nd time and not one problem.

I will try to summarize the p380 experience.
I was using Magtech FMJ ammo.
I read after the fact that some have had trouble with it?

Shot a total of 100 rounds.
80% of the magazines had at least one issue.
Most typical one was failure to feed.
The 1st round always chambered fine when releasing the slide stop, the issues were all with subsequent rounds.
They just butted into the feed ramp horizontally and I would have to re-rack the slide.

Has anyone here had this much trouble and after changing ammo and
getting up to 200 rounds seen the problems go away?
I am wondering if this gun is warming itself up for a return to Kahr..

Is there a consensus on the best FMJ ammo for breaking it in and otherwise?

Just so you have the whole story, per a recommendation, I thoroughly cleaned the gun when it arrived. I racked the slide several hundred times and then cleaned it again. I even cleaned the magazine and spring.

I hear there is a post about prepping your p380 here, how do you find it?

Anyway, how do you see this situation unfolding from here after such a bad start? I don't know whether to remain Zen calm or start feeling some
buyer's remorse? This is not an inexpensive gun and I wasn't counting on this!

Any advice would be most welcome!

[zeromeow]

For me, the Winchester Wite Box ran perfectly for me during my break in period.

[jocko]

kahr tech section, it is a sticky. Looks to me like u have preppeed it pretty good already, but read it anyways, it might help u.

Just for the sake of argument, go to another brand of american made fmj ammo to test out. Yup not a good start for your P380. this seems to be getting to be the norm with the 380 anymore. I have some mag tech that I have been shooting with no issuesin my P380. I try not to blame the ammo but trying another brand of good ammo will eliminate those possabilities to.... My P380 would not shoot Remington 102 grain golden sabres without giving issues, so I just quite shooting that brand and grain to.

Just make very sure you getting a good grip on the gun to, It is small,it is light and things happen with those small guns that normally don't show up on the bigger guns.
If you have a good friend who is a good shooter, let him also shoot your gun to see if he can duplicate your issues also. U need to eliminate the possables for these malfunctions and when all else fails, give kahr a call, present them with your findings and what u have done to try to solve them to no avail. If they say send it back then you INSIST they pick up the tab both ways. go higher if need be, yoiu should not have to pay to send back THEIR BAD GUN. I would like to say 200+ ROUNDS and the gun might shoot itself ceabn to be reliable. this happens, that will be ur call to make. If u see progress with less issues as time goes buy, then stay with it. Some guns take longer to break in, some indeed need to go back. My P380 had to go back. It is now perfect and I have about 1500 rounds through it. Nice gun--when they work.

ask for eoin or Jay at customer service.. BE NICE!!1 It goes a long way..

[copterdrvr]

My P380 took almost 300 rounds to get "good" and I prepped the cr@p out of it. Been "pre-prepping" semi-auto pistols for a loooong time and the info in the Tech section is first rate. Did you polish the feedramp? a less than pristinely smooth feedramp can cause your described problems with certain pistols. Considering the fact that you racked the slide a couple hundred times already, I'm really leaning towards that as the problem. If you're going to do that, just remember to only POLISH the feed ramp-don't do any "grinding" on it!!!!! A Dremel tool with a felt pad and their polishing rouge works great-run it at medium speed.

[nelly]

I also am in the process of trying to get the 380 up & running.VERY FRUSTRATING!!!.I sent it back with similar issues & then some.Now I'm trying to get it to shoot to point of aim.Everything shoots LOW.All I want is a reliable,fun gun to shoot that will also Save my butt if the need arises,I hope this will be possible with the 380.I don't understand how Kahr can release these for commercial sale with all the issues I'm reading about.Ruger has it right..

[TominCA]

I'm having problems also - My first P380 malfunctioned consistently at about 20 to 25% for 400 rounds (mostly won't go into battery) and then went back - It was eventually replaced and the second one is running about 20% failure to feed (stovepipe). I've got 90 rounds through it and will run more through it today - but if it doesn't get better I'm sending it back before the 200 rounds. The little Kahrs have a uniquie operating system.

If you feed a dummy round you will notice that the pistol picks up the round from the magazine differently it sort of feeds a little to the side (I'm no good at describing this) and not straight up under the extractor as is typical for autos.

As far as I can tell there are three things to a Kahr P380 fire and feed cycle:

1) The extractors are very tight and use a lot of the return cycle recoil energy
2) The slide is very light and that makes spring energy very critical in resisting recoil to protect the synthetic frame
3) The whole system is weak on return because of the extractor tension. that's why the outer spring is longer than the inner spring.

When the round fires it pushes the slide back- If the springs are too strong it stovepipes - if they are too light the frame gets hit too hard with the recoil.

As the slide moves forward it picks up a round from the mag, but the round has to be forced under a very stiff extractor. Once this happens the round is pushed straight into the chamber for the last 1/4 inch - by the outer recoil spring (the inner one is thin and shorter but VERY stiff and probably absorbs most of the recoil and powers the rim fitting into the tight extractor)

The problem is that this little pistol uses a lot of energy on the return stroke but can't take too much recoil on the frame. So the balance of extractor tension, recoil resistance and return effort becomes very important.

Cut a coil of of the outer spring and the pistol will cycle better - but may not have that final energy to go into battery. Cut a coil off of the inner spring and it will recoil fine (until the gun is damaged) but may not have the energy left to roll the new round under the tight extractor and then push the round into the chamber.

Trim the extractor spring (or shorten the pin) and it may work better because the cartridge rim will fit under the extractor with less effort, thereby letting the slide move forward with less effort. However this is a "don't try this at home", because there may be (probably is) some other dynamic that makes the tight extractor fit necessary.

This strange feed mechanism is actually the "heart" of the Kahr design. It allows the gun to take up a cartridge at a level much closer to the barrel axis thus allowing the pistol to be smaller and the bore lower in relation to the grip. It is also very difficult to tune - especially in a small plastic (I know they are not really plastic - but I don't know what they are) frame pistol.

Here is what I think is happening and why there are so many failures to function even though the pistols are well made:

They are leaving the whole thing a little stiff at the factory to allow for spring compression and parts smoothing. By doing this the pistol should reach optimum performance as the spring weakens naturally. Sometimes they leave the factory with too much spring tension and the pistol stovepipes and sometimes the extractor mechanism isn't tuned right (this looks really difficult because it also involves the geometry of the tooth) and the pistol won't lock into battery.

They assume a 200 round breaking in but that is working against them because the techs who tune the gun have to "guess" where this little pistol will be after 200 rounds. When that doens't come true in some instances they tell you to "send it back" and they give it more attention.

Since October - when I started my P380 adventure - I've noticed a change in the tone of this forum. From "Wow what a cute little gun" to what I am now reading is that the "damn thing is giving me fits".

If they don't fix this quality control problem they are in for a change in their reputation and probably a decrease in sales. They are no longer the only "little" pistol in 380 and 9mm.

Remeber this is only my guess - so don't cut or stretch any springs!!!:D

[jocko]

don't put the 9mm in the same class as the P380. The 9's are running fine, the 380 seem lately to be not running fine.

[nelly]

TOMINCA has it right!! They need to address the quality control issues with the 380's or they will definately start losing business.I almost ready to throw the towel in on mine..Good thoughts TOMINCA!! I am in total agreement with you.

[Mokumbear]

If I had read a couple of the posts here of late, I would have reconsidered my buying decision. I am definitely suffering from buyer's remorse.
Never happened with any other gun.

Let me add, I e-mailed tech support last night at Kahr and no response 24 hours later. My last basic questions were answered in hours.

I don't know if the problem is they might have to do something this time.
I hadn't read the part about "being nice going a long way".
I wasn't rude but I clearly told them that my gun was bad out of the box, "a mess" and not the performance I would expect from such an expensive .380
Guess I will wait another day and then call. :(

[jocko]

Mokumbear:

PM sent.. trying to help you if I can..

[kpm9]

Run some WWB or Remington ball. Mag-tech is not tier 1 ammo, and sub-par in my experience.

From the FTFeed you describe it is a underpowered load, which corresponds to my general experience with Mag-tech.

When you have to recycle the slide, make sure it is not the slide stop engaging. That can happen due to grip or our of spec slide stop/release.

Give it another 100 rounds with quality ammo, even SD ammo. Sure it's expensive, but you really not going to carry target ammo and you want to make certain it functions.

[Mokumbear]

When I ordered ammo online, Magtech was pretty much the only thing available in 50rd boxes.

There seem to be slightly more choices now.

What do you think about Remington UMC in FMJ?
After such a bad start, would you spend the money and
run 100 more rounds through it? (As opposed to pressing on with customer service)

Surprisingly, I am having trouble finding WWB .380 online.
Any suggestions where to shop or thoughts on WWB vs Remington UMC?

It appears that my local Wally World removed their gun section.
I don't know if they still sell ammo.

This P380 is going to have to get a whole lot better before I will
consider carrying it.

[kpm9]

Yeah, I'd spend more on ammo and run self-defense rounds through it. See if you can get through 20 of those.

It will loosen up over time, but you need to run some stout ammo though it initially.
WWB seems to be more powerful than Remington UMC. I've used some without issue thou.

[jocko]

about the only ammo our wal mart sells here is the 100Pak of wwb 9mm fmj. good stuff to, goes bang every time, shoots clean, american made and around $22 per 100

[rogerthedodger]

I tried UNC in my P380, 25 rounds, 3 light strikes, 3 stove pipes, and never locked after last round. I am going to try wwb after I do the prep you have on this site, then go to the range again.
Roger

[jocko]

roger*****. If you have throughly cleaned that striker channel and done the propper prepping thing on the kahr tech sight and itis still doing what you said and hopefully have 100-200 rounds out of the gun. then IMO ur wasting ammo. The gun is not right andIMO needsto go back to kahr.

PM sent:

[tconroy]

roger*****. If you have throughly cleaned that striker channel and done the propper prepping thing on the kahr tech sight and itis still doing what you said and hopefully have 100-200 rounds out of the gun. then IMO ur wasting ammo. The gun is not right andIMO needsto go back to kahr.

PM sent:

Jocko Earlier on page 1 a guy mentioned the fact that the bullet sits a little to the right when magazine is loaded and ready to chambered. I also noticed this on my CW9 but have no issues at all in feeding ANYTHING. Just to help him and me out, is this the nature of the feeding system on all Kahrs???? When cleaning out my striker channel last night I noticed brass shavings blown out by my cleaner nozzle from the casings. Is this also norm? Not trying to hijack the thread, just wanted this guy to know whats going on with other models to see if there is a common thing to eliminate or narrow down his issues.

[rogerthedodger]

Thanks jocko. My second day at the range was much better. I am again going to do cleaning, except striker, lube, and another 100 rounds of wwb. Am starting a new thread. Stay tuned.
Roger

[jocko]

tconroy: can't honestly answer that question of the bullet in the magazine. I have never paid any attention to how mine sit. I guess if it gives no issues then don't worry about it. If you have a spare magazine test it out also and see if they both do it. In my case I only try to address a problem when there is a problem. I certainly don't try to invent a probem that is not a problem. I think once you get that channel cleaned good and then regulary clean it witht he blow out hole, u will have no issues. I when I spray mine, I don't even look at what comes out. I spray it hard and I pull back the striker also and they spray form the breech face hole andit really will blow all crapola out that clean out hole, but so much fluids comes out of my striekr channel that I just don't notice. you know kahr shows ihn their manual a striker swipe on the prime and calls it normal. so for me if that is try when that striker is swiping that primer, some of that primer is coming back inside the striker channel via the strriker pin. Just my theory as to how some of that crapola gets in that channel The way the striker is designed thought it would take a massive amouont of build up in the striker channel IMO to start producing light strikes. If one spray cleans through that clean out hole every time he cleans the gun, it willnever be an issue. U can spray it as clean on the inside as what you can clean on the outside of the gun...

[tconroy]

I always clean her up real good no matter what. Im like you, if it's working,why turn knobs? Just noticed it when I was at the range thursday. I also took the magazine apart and clean it for the first time after 400 rounds. I do have another mag so I will load it up and take a look. Pull the trigger it fires never missing a beat and the striker sounds very crisp during dry fire. No problems:D