Ream out the chamber on new CW45?

[TheTman]

My friend that let me try out his CW45 and got me hooked on Kahrs, wants me to take my new CW45 when I get it, to his gunsmith and have the chamber reamed out a hair. He says it makes it handle different brands ammo better, makes it more reliable due to the very tight tolerances of a new Kahr, and says it then doesn't need all of the 200 rounds for break-in. Anyone ever heard of doing this? Figured I'd polish up the feed ramp, but not so sure I want the chamber reamed out, maybe polished up little. You'd think reaming it would cause the brass to expand somewhat, making it a pain to reload. Not sure if it'd be dangerous or not. I'm sure he's talking a very minute amount, maybe a couple thousandths of an inch, but it still sounds weird to me and I thought I'd get the opinions of some of more experienced Kahr shooters here.
The gunsmith specializes in Springfield .45's, and loves taking a plain jane model and turning it into a real tack driver, or a very reliable personal protection piece, or whatever you want done to it. I guess he's also done a fair amount of work on Kahr's. One of his carry pieces is a Kahr PM45 he's gone over.
I don't care about the 200 round break in, it's gonna have a lot more then that ran through it before I start carrying it. I just thought it sounded weird and wanted to see if any of you kind folks have ever heard of anything like that. Right now, I'm pretty sure I'm not having this work done. My CW40 sure didn't need it, and it eats everything fed to it. Haven't tried any reloads and not looking to try any. Not when I can get new WWB at Walmart for just a dollar or two more than they wanted for the highter quality reloads at the last gun show. If I do, they'll be MY reloads from MY press.

While on subject of reloads. A friend and I found out something interesting. That shooting a few rounds with lead bullets before shooting jacketed ammo, made our groups tighten up significantly, that was on a Beretta 92, and a Star M30, (9mm's). His uncle told him to try that and it sure worked. My guess is the lead left behind in the barrel helps it get a better grip on the bullet. Didn't have a chrono, so don't know if it slowed the bullets any. Since then, I've just left the lead in the barrel, and just clean it with a brush and Rem oil. Haven't tried it with the Kahr, don't have a .40 die. But I do have a .45 die, might try it with the CW45. although I think reloads void the warranty. One of my self defense books says you don't want too tight of a group anyway when shooting a bad guy, that you want to spread the wounds around so that you are putting holes in different organs so they bleed out quicker. I doubt that too tight a group would be a problem, for me anyway, under those circumstances. Plus I don't think he is going to stand there like a paper target while you blast away.
One of these days I won't post a whole book, when I ask a question, but don't hold your breath. :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:

[Bawanna]

I pretty much agree with your thoughts and I'm also a firm believer in if it ain't broke don't fix it. I'd most certainly shoot your new 45 A LOT. If you have issues then and only then would I consider the chamber reaming.
Reaming if done in moderation is little more than an aggressive polishing but I still wouldn't do it unless you have issues and even then Kahr should have a chance to make it right before you get into other remedies.

I'm sure the gunsmith can do some magical things and in some cases that might be a wonderful thing but I dont think thats the case in this scenario.

On the lead subject, I've not heard of that but with the CW having a conventional rifled barrel it could well be true and work for it as well.
All manufacturers say that reloads will void their warranty so thats of little significance but at the same time, only you know who to trust with them and if that means only your own thats a good plan. Thats the plan I adhere to also.

I suspect your CW is gonna run just fine right out of the box. I'd give it a chance before doing anything else.

[jocko]

being yoiur complete barrel is nickel plated. Reaming would certainly take that nickel away from inside the chamber. KAHRS are not ammo sensitive in the first place, No problem with a dremel and a polishing cotton cone and some flitz on it. That will make it shine like a diamond in a goats a-s. I ain't buying your friends theory.

I don't know if a beretta 92 or a Star kM30 has polygonal rifled barrels or not . Kahrs do, they don't recommend shooting lead, so do other polygonal rfiled barrel companies, like glock etc, . Not to sure abot that theory either but I don't think you will see your groups tighen up in a kahr anymore than they are. I see your talking about the CW kahrs, they will shoot lead OK. So you can test out that theory with no harm, no foul.

\I just got back after over 4 months of not shooting my PM9 due to one heh of a winter season.
Shot 175 rounds at 7 yards and under, narry a blip with the gun either. Same shot groups as 6 months ago and actually 4 yeas ago PITIFUL. But what a fun gun to shoot.

CW series kahrs don't have polygonal rifled barrels, so u can shoot lead with no issues but the PM and P series kand K and all else except the cw series have polygonal rifled barrels.

Damn I just love these kahrs and bars!!!

[pappy42]

The 800 pound gorilla in the room on this site and others; is that one should expect to "smith" on thier new weapons before expecting 100% reliability from them.

My thought is, one should expect 100% reliability right out of the box; with no more (or less) prep than listed in the owner's manual.

IMHO, we should expect more of the manufacturers quality control teams, and stop trouble shooting and fixing QC problems ourselves.

Tom, you are correct, don't take your new pistol to a smith. You paid for it to be "right" from the factory.

[jocko]

Pappy 42 is dead right. I personally feel every gunneeds to be broken in and what ever round count works for u, then that is the one you go with. Most every gun does work rougt out of the box, but I would think every person would want to fire a few hundred rounds out a new gun to #1 get used to the gun and it sights and feel. #2 to make sure it is reliable. #3, what did u buy it for if your not going to shoot it. One should not have to modify any new gun to make it go bang, sure if u wantto polish up something even more than it is etc, again. no harm, no foul. It tend swto appease alot of people when they fokk with a new gun and they thing they made it better. If you get an extrmely tight chambered kahr barrel, then send it back and let kahr replace it, certainly don't spend any additional smitty money to modify and certainly would void any warranty also. Makes no sense

If I found a certain brand that seemed to chamber tight, I would just go to another brand. If all brands acted up, then I would let kahr take care of it. They made it, they can fix it.

[wyntrout]

Don't fix what isn't broken... or was it "Don't fix what ain't broke"?

Wynn:)

[deadhead1971]

I have never heard of reaming an auto chamber, but I guess you can. The only thing I have had reamed were the 6 cylinder throats on a Ruger Vaquero to .4525. They were undersized ranging from .4505 to .4510.

Once it's reamed, you can't go back.

[Bawanna]

I can vouch for that. I've been reamed enough times, I know.

[Kingcreek]

If the new gun comes with a barrel chamber and it is within spec, there is no way I would have anybody ream it. If its not within spec (highly unlikely) then its the manufacturor's job to correct it. I've done some tweaking on competition guns and race 1911s but reaming a chamber is dumb.

[jocko]

kingcreek, ur preachin to the choir??

buy a box of ammo at gander mt. and u get a free ream job!!! Great people..

[Longitude Zero]

Break it in first. Then if you feel the need, return it to the facotry as most "gunsmiths" are gun hacks. If they are not a member of the American Pistolsmiths Guild or the factory armorer they will NEVER touch I own.

Reaming is only to be done by an expert and doing it yourself is not an intelligent idea.

[TheTman]

Thanks for the input, you all are great. I am so glad I found this site.
The friend with the CW45 is pretty good friends with the gunsmith in question, and I think he lets the smith talk him in to fixin things that don't need fixin.

[Bawanna]

Break it in first. Then if you feel the need, return it to the facotry as most "gunsmiths" are gun hacks. If they are not a member of the American Pistolsmiths Guild or the factory armorer they will NEVER touch I own.

Reaming is only to be done by an expert and doing it yourself is not an intelligent idea.

I have to take a very small polite exception to this statement. Many gunsmiths who may not be in the guild are or can be quite gifted. I'm sure John Moses wasn't in the guild but I reckon that was before their time.
If we substituted the word many gunsmiths instead of most I'd be happy as a pig in mud.

An armorer is not to be confused with a gunsmith. An armorer is a parts changer. It's doing this, lets replace this and see if it works.
A smith would diagnose and make the part if need be. Sort of like comparing Mr Goodwrench with the kids at Speedy Lube. Two different species.

I am an armorer, I stoop an bow before a good gunsmith. I sometimes in my dreams dream of being a gunsmith but it's only a vision and no doubt will never be a reality.

[CJB]

take my new CW45 and have the chamber reamed out

it then doesn't need all of the 200 rounds for break-in

polish up the feed ramp

That shooting a few rounds with lead bullets before shooting jacketed ammo, made our groups tighten up significantly

My guess is the lead left behind in the barrel helps it get a better grip on the bullet.



The more things change, the more they stay the same. There was a time, when the original competition 45's (1911's) were all bullseye guns. And, they'd have match chambers, with barrels from Clark, Day, Bar-Sto, Kart,etc. The match barrels were meant to be just that - MATCH - shooting well tailored match handloads, often loaded specifically for a particular gun. IOW, if a shooter had three guns, all in .45, he might be shooting three different recipes of handloads. When other forms of competition began to be popular with 45's, the first thing folks did was take bullseye guns, and try and make them into more well rounded competitors. This required opening up the fine match chambers. Bullseye accuracy was destroyed, but you had greater function with sloppier ammo, shooting more powerful loads. After a short time, this too was abandoned, and guns were built up with features for specific competition, but often still based on a "match barrel and chambner", but altered to allow feeding of any ammo. The process was to run a max size finishing reamer in the chamber to give it extra depth and extra diameter. You could be taking .005" in length, and maybe .002-.005 in diameter - depending on the chamber. The match barrels were made with almost no "extra headspace" for match reasons. The .005 would create some room for chamber filth to not immediately interfere with things.

I've never seen non-match barrel that "needed" reaming.

You can maybe mitigate the 200 rounds with vigorous hand cycling of the action.

Kahr chambers are already polished. Originally the "polishing" was with cratex wheel to eliminate tool marks on the barrel mouth. Kahr's are already devoid of any major tooling marks, and also polished well enough. Any more is purely cosmetic.

Never heard the lead-first, then jacketed for accuracy idea before. Dunno why it would work, but if it does, there's a reason for it!

[Longitude Zero]

Bawanna maybe I was a might bit strong but personally as you have noted a gunsmith is a parts exchanger. For truly world class work IMHO it takes a guild member.

I stand by my use of the term most and not many since very few gunsmiths have what it take to even think about guild membership. I too hold an armorers rating with S&W, Glock, SA. In the hierarchy of whos who it starts as an armorer then a gunsmith for the few and guild for the truly gifted.

On this area we will just have to agree to disagree.

[deuce]

My CW45 has been perfect since I opened the box and to this date I haven't found anything it wouldn't eat. My vote is to just get it and shoot the heck out of it.

[jocko]

seen alot of good ol time smitty's in my area, I can assure you they never were guild members. Actually never evenknew there was a guildi societ of smitty's. course I should have figured that there would be. We seem to have guilds anymore for any profession. I worked in my fathers Goodyear Tire business for over 40 years. not brtagging I was the best tire changer within miles. I wasnever approached to join the Tire Changers guild. please do not sh-it on yourself today tires with extremly low profiles and wider rims, it takes EXERIENCE to change a tire, so as to not damage beads or $1500 Porsche rims. If your good, your reputation will spread, no matter what sheet of paper you have on the wall. And their are hacks in every profession to, even doctors who pin those certificates all over their walls. I wish they would print how they graduated in their class at the bottom. I would have far more faith in one who finished in the top 10 of his class of 500 than one who finished i the bottom 10 of his class of 500, but as you know you have to get your left leg cut off due to issues when it was suppsoed to be the right leg that was to be cut off.

[CJB]

Hey'yall... yessir day I kudunt evin spel egeneer, an twoday I is'un!

When I was actively messing with such things for cash money, nobody cared about your professional credentials. They did care about what you did to their triggers, how the finish looked, how the machine work was, the price they had to pay, and how quickly you got the work done.

I did ok. Only did a few trigger jobs by mistake, on guns that came in for sights.... :rolleyes: