Why did NYPD ditch the K-9?

[Narkcop]

I have yet to get a straight answer as to why NYPD ditched the Kahr K-9 and would like to know the answer. I have heard the various parts breakage,rust, & trigger lightens with use. Anyone know the reason?

[bonjorno2]

what's the magazine capacity? Price per unit? What did they replace them with?

[jocko]

Have a hard time with the "trigger tightens" with use. Rust on a stainless, not going to buy that either Parts breakage, not sure of that either, We have many K9 onwers on this fourm and we don't read of "parts" breakage. I have had an inside NYPD officer tell me it was more political than anything but I have a hard time with that to. Probably never gonna hear the straight poop, especially from kahr people either,. I also heard that kahr just got tired of their b. s. to and even pulled the armorer out of the NYPD dept, that they provided on kahrs dollars. Who knows the NYPD are the same people who told glock they had to design a trigger system that was similar in pull to their revolvers, hence forth the glock NYPD triggers was born.. There was once an approved list published on this forum for nypd bug guns but I don't know where it is. It was not alot of guns either..

[Narkcop]

I believe it was Officer purchased and not NYPD purchased. Just on the approved list. I am guessing internal politics played a role.

[jocko]

ur right I think all the approved guns have to be purchased by the owner.

[MikeyKahr]

My thought is that some on the force were such bad shots (check the stats), that they had to upsize the round count for effectiveness and Kahr's don't make double-stacks.

[Willieboy]

I don't know why they switched from Kahr and I really don't know why they would have switched from Glocks, if indeed that happened.

[CJB]

its almost always politics of one sort or another

it can be tied to a single malfunction that some politico waiting to make a case, makes a case over

it can be tied to some theoretical target optimization of accuracy, that some politico makes a case over

it can be that kahr has roots in korea and unification church, that some politico wants to make a case over

They only need a small excuse to put on their wigs.

[JohnR]

My K9 was previously owned by an NYPD officer; he said it never gave him a lick o' trouble.

[jocko]

Some NYPD officers have told me in the past that the NYPD brass march to a competely different tune. I would not loose any sleep over why they did or now do not approve the kahrs as a off duty carry peace. Just more for us non political people to buy...

[skater4790]

I did 20 years with the NYPD and carried a Glock 19 on duty and S&W 5 shots J frame 38cal (the upsize the round count for effectiveness theory goes out the window) for off duty. The range instructors were pushing the Glock 26 for off duty because you could use the magazine from G19 and also the operations of the firearms were the same. Some of the officers who carried the Kahr complained about the weight of the gun (23 oz) vs. the G26 (19 oz). Some officers did complain about having problems with the Kahr sometimes failing to feed and rust. But the biggest complain was price. Officers have to buy their off duty weapons from a list of approved firearms for off duty carry and we are cheap when it comes to buying firearms. The department gave your service weapon for free and pushed the Glock 19.

[jocko]

the rust, was that aqn issue with thge all stainless K9 even. That is strange indeed. If anyone should know what went on u should..

[Narkcop]

I suspect that the early Kahrs bought were the carbon steel blue. I think with just a little maintenance rust would not be a real problem. BUT I know MANY Cops just shoot em carry em and rarely wipe em down.When cleaning my S&W 4046 I use to clean a few fellow Patrol Officers S&W 4046's years ago just cause I knew they had to back me and I wanted them to have a clean gun and some nearly ALWAYS had a filthy gun.

[Bawanna]

Amen to that. I can attest to zero maintenance cop guns. I have one I swear he hides it in the cat litter box at home to keep it safe from his kids. All new at the exact same time and his looks 20 years older than the rest. Sad.

[jocko]

yup, blame it on the gun , if u will. They can't talk!! Look at a mechanics tool box sometimes!!!

[skater4790]

I remember once I went to range to qualify with my service weapon when an officer was having a problem removing his S&W model 10 revolver from his duty holster. The instructor finally removed the gun from the holster and found some small mouse bones in the bottom of the holster.

[jocko]

and hence forth the term MOUSEGUN was born!!

[skater4790]

Funny!!!!

[jocko]

I remember once I went to range to qualify with my service weapon when an officer was having a problem removing his S&W model 10 revolver from his duty holster. The instructor finally removed the gun from the holster and found some small mouse bones in the bottom of the holster.

not guessing ur age, but a model 10, wow that had to be years ago. That model 10 wqith the bull/heavy barrel was just one heh of agreat shooter back then.

Our department all carried model 10 in my home town, back 50 years ago.. Back then they also didn';t know or every carry an off duty gun either..Most old time and small towns, the police officers were just ur next door neighbor. He came home from work and hung his rig on the hook until the next day. They didn't shoot them much at all in our town, we had no range , our town hgad nbo money for practice, Not sure I can ever remember in my life living here of any officer firing his gun in defense. We did have one officer kill himself with his service gun. Their pay was less than a damn paper boy made and back then there was no 3 or 6 month police training course either. If the chief like u and the mayor, they hired u and u had a gun on ur side the next day with zero training in anything. We did not have quality police officers back in my days, no offense, but we just didn't. But I can remember coming out of one of local bars (we had manyu) one night about 2.a.m and I was not right and I drove the business truck to the bar and back home, and when I pulled in my drive way one of the locals pulled up behind me and said, Heh Bernie, u got a tail light out, better fix it before you get pulled over some night. I was drunk as a skunk then, so sometimes locals are good:19:

[Bawanna]

I remember once I went to range to qualify with my service weapon when an officer was having a problem removing his S&W model 10 revolver from his duty holster. The instructor finally removed the gun from the holster and found some small mouse bones in the bottom of the holster.

Now that's gotta be a first there. DAng.

I had a county deputy give me his Walther PPK, said he was having issues. He ankle carried it. I got enough lint and crap out of it to knit him half a pair of leiderhose. He went back to a revolver but we're still waiting to make the other half.
Good guy, funny. He guarded Reagan when he was governor. Loved him, didn't care much for Nancy that much. Lots of good stories.

[skater4790]

I miss my old model 10, 4 inch barrel. It was a great gun and heavy too. I hit so many people with that gun. I remember one time we were chasing a He/She hooker and my partner threw his model 10 and hit the guy in the head knocking them unconscious. That gun never failed to shoot or knock someone out.

[cgarcop]

You can ask 5 guys at the NYPD range the same question and get 5 different answers. The only consistent factor in all answers is an issue or perceived issue with the trigger spring. For a while, anyone with the K9 showing up at the range for requal had the the springs and in some cases, the trigger swapped out.

[cgarcop]

There was once an approved list published on this forum for nypd bug guns but I don't know where it is. It was not alot of guns either..


S&W 3953tsw, 3914dao
Kahr K-9 (no new purchases or transfers after 2/17/06)
Glock 26
Beretta 8000d mini cougar
Sig Sauer P239 DAO

There are many Smith and Ruger revolvers out there that were grandfathered in. The Ruger SPNY ( modified 101) is very popular.

Supposedly, the S&W M.P is close to being authorized.

[jocko]

I read a few times of this trigger issue th8injg. To my knowledge, I have never read of any trigger issues in any kahrs, expecially the K9. Springs, never seen a kahr or ever heard of a kahr with broken trigger springs. . The trigger springs in ALL kahrs are the same and we just never read of this in any kahr. I won't say I ain't buying that story either, just need to know alot more about it.

[Narkcop]

I'm guessing they wanted the HEAVY trigger in the Kahrs and they naturally lighten with use. WHO knows? Why don't they allow Ruger SP101's any longer? I'm sure an SP101 is about as problem free a bug as you can buy.

[cgarcop]

Why don't they allow Ruger SP101's any longer? I'm sure an SP101 is about as problem free a bug as you can buy.


They allow it for anyone who previously carried it, along with the smith revolvers. The Rugers are in big demand amongst the guys still authorized to carry them. They call it the Ruger SPNY. Same gun as the 101 but with the NYPD specs

[jocko]

alot of assuming on this kahr thing. we don't know for sure. . Ask 10 NYPD cops and your gonna hear dfferently to. Not good to guess what the reason was either. It is not on thier approved small list , so just gotta accept it as that..