Damn Instant Background Checks

[TheTman]

Those son of a beaches did it to me again, put me on hold so I couldn't pick up my CW45 today. They've done that on 4 out of 5 of my last purchases. If things go as usual I'll be able to pick it up tomorrow. The Dealer said I could call the FBI and get some kind of number to avoid this hassle. I wonder if I'm on some kind of "hot head" list of something where they think I need a 24 hour cooling off period or something, kinda stupid when I already have several handguns, plus my CC permit.
I'm going to wait till my purchase clears, then maybe call them and see if I can get this straightened out and get one of those numbers. I just hate dealing with government agencies. Not really sure I want to make a call to the FBI anyway. LOL. Not that I'm wanted for anything, but I've been hauled off to jail before because I have a pretty common name, and another guy with my name had a warrant out. He had a different middle initial, heard the report come thru but the sheriff hauled me in anyway. Jerk. Oh well, don't really mind the wait, just hate burning gas at $3.40/gallon for no reason. Did pick up a couple hundred WWB from Walmard for breaking it in when I get it. They didn't have any SD ammo in .45, so probably stop by Gander Mountain on the way to the range.
They usually have a pretty decent selection. Gonna look around the forums and see what people like for SD Ammo in .45. Seems like Hydr-Shoks were pretty popular, and Gold-Dot. I'd like to order some Ranger 230gr. Talon cartridges and check them out if I can find someone selling to non-leo. I have some hot hand loads for SD for my Springfield, but I've been informed that I'd better use commercial ammo or a DA or the bad guy's attorney in a civil case will make a big issue out of using "deadlier" bullets and crap.
Hope everyone's week is starting out well.

[Bawanna]

It could certainly be the name similarity but that shouldn't be enough to delay the deal. Especially if you have a permit.

I'm not sure what kind of number your dealer is talking about either? That's one of the things I do is background checks for people without CCW's. With CCW's too but usually they are just routine as the gun is already delivered.

Guess the higher up you go the bigger the can of worms is.

[Dietrich]

Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day for you.There`s no reason you should have to go through this more than once.The powers that be should have straightened this out.Guess they aren`t really concerned with getting the bugs out of the system.

[TheTman]

I'm bet that any glitches that can delay a purchase are encouraged by the present administration, rather than fixed.
Bawanna, there is a place on the 4413(?) form to enter a number that I guess is this number you get from the FBI if you can get your case straightened out. Supposedly this number keeps you from getting delayed in the future. I really don't mind waiting another day, except for the extra gas burned, and at Gun Shows, where you have to make arrangements to transfer the item to a local dealer and is a general pain in the a$$. Used to be no problem when a friend owned a pawn shop and had his FFL, but he sold his business and gave up his FFL, so I don't have a good contact anymore that will do it for free. It would be nice if you could just phone in your info, get delayed, then wait to drive down when the purchase clears, but they won't call for a background check without the 4413 form signed.

[jeepster09]

"I have a pretty common name, and another guy with my name had a warrant out. He had a different middle initial, heard the report come thru but the sheriff hauled me in anyway."

That is the reason, unless you add your social number don't expect it to ever change.
You might be surprised that maybe there are even more with same name accross country that have also done other dumb things, the delay is to make sure you are ok.

[OldLincoln]

As for 45 SD ammo, I prefer the Federal HST +P 230gn. It's a law enforcement ammo that you can buy legally and should not have a court hassle as it's common for LEOs.

Full disclosure is I had to downgrade to standard pressure in 45 because My Colt is an old alloy frame that can't take it. Kahr's are fine with +P and I carry it in my 9mm (147gn HST +P).

[apheod]

sorry about your troubles neighbor, hang in there.

[kahrking]

I feel your pain as I always get held. I always get released in 48hrs but I cannot buy at gun shows etc! I have tried everything including my SS#, no go.

I have not been issued a UPIN # as I was told it would not solve the holding problem. I also have my CCW and buy guns often. I wish they would look at your past purchase date and look for flags or charges after the last release date.

NCIS agents must be hourly employees because they waste a lot of time!

[Tilos]

thetmanski:
Did they fingerprint you when you where taken in mistakenly?
That's all they need to delay you.
Tilos

[mr surveyor]

must be a state thing if you do have a permit to carry. In Texas, if one has a CHL (license to carry), the CHL is the instant background check. All that is necessary is that the purchaser fill out the obligatory Form 4473, pay the money, and walk out with the firearm. No calls, no muss-no fuss. The original FBI background check required for a Texas CHL takes care of ALL subsequent needs as long as the CHL is valid.

Glad to be a Texan:D


surv

[TheTman]

Thanks Jeepster, I did use my SSN on the 4413, doesn't seem to help any.

Old Lincoln, Haven't bought any .45 ammo in quite awhile, have a bunch of reloads I've been using. I thought HST was Hydra Shok, never knew what the T was for, guess I have some research to do.

Thanks Apeheod, I'm used to it, just hate wasting the gas. If by chance you live close to Augusta, Dream Weavers does transfers for $20. It's a weird place, it's a beauty salon, with a room in the back they sell guns out of. At least when I go back I should get to check out some babes, the salon part was closed today.
Probably should have went to Moneytown Pawn, I think they charge the same and are a lot closer, but these are friends of a friend so I thought I'd help them out.

Thanks Kahrking. The lady that was phoning in my info said that UPIN would stop the delays, so maybe not? Might try and get one after this purchase goes thru and see if it helps any, don't want to open a can of worms in the middle of this purchase.

Tilos: No fingerprints, they let me go as soon as I got down to the Jail and got it figured out.
I have been arrested before, so that's probably it.

Surv - Good for Texas! Wish KS was like that.

[MP3Mogul]

I get delayed every purchase in Virginia. I called the background check number from the state police and they explained it to me. There is a guy with my same first, middle and last name that is a murderer where I live. He has about 40 felony convictions... but, he is black, I am white, and he's in prison and I'm not... seems they would figure that out... it's all good... I get approved usually within 4 hours... sometimes the next day... never longer

[jeepster09]

I get delayed every purchase in Virginia. I called the background check number from the state police and they explained it to me. There is a guy with my same first, middle and last name that is a murderer where I live. He has about 40 felony convictions... but, he is black, I am white, and he's in prison and I'm not... seems they would figure that out... it's all good... I get approved usually within 4 hours... sometimes the next day... never longer

That's why social security usually fixs it, may have same name but not number. I used to get held until I have been putting number on form, haven't been held up since.

[mr surveyor]

do you guys with license to carry that get delayed all live in states that don't require an fbi background check to get the license to carry?

just trying to figure out the reasoning behind the delays for persons with a legit license to carry. (and, yes, the "same name" thing does cause a delay if the "call" is required)

[apheod]

not sure about the fbi background check. i have a kansas ccw and have never had any delays buying weapons.

i live on the west end of town, but know of a couple of other places that do $20 ffl transfers, FTW motorsports and a loan at last.

[Jeremiah/Az]

Here in Az. they don't call if you have a CCW. I used to always get delayed before I got my permit.

[MW surveyor]

"Selling guns out of the back of the beauty parlor" - THERE'S YOUR PROBLEM! ;)

[Kahrson]

It's happened to me the last two times. Last time was Saturday. My ffl just called yesterday and said I'm clear to pick up my K9 Elite today. My ffl suggested not to put my ssn on the 4473 next time. He claims that is the reason for delay many of the times. I never realized it was optional.

Then again sometimes thay are just busy. It is a pain in the ass when it happens. Forunately my ffl lives just 5 minutes so I don't have a long drive involved.
They should take the word "instant" out of NICS title though.

[TheTman]

Got delayed a 2nd day. :confused: Never happened before. Usually I can pick it up the next day. Maybe that speeding ticket I got put me on the "watch list". LOL Or maybe it was the 2nd amendment and NRA bumperstickers that did it, you know how the current administration despises how we cling to our guns and bibles. I actually don't have any bumper stickers at all. Just joking. I leery of having NRA bumper stickers and stuff like that on my car. It's pretty new, and like the clean bumper on it. Sure wouldn't have any polictical or NRA stickers on it. Never know when somone will see an NRA sticker and break into your car hoping to find a gun, or some cop might not like something on your bumper and give you extra crap over it. Plus it's no one's business where my sympathys lie. Don't put gun rights stickers like on my house either, figure it might make someone want to break in and make off with my guns.
Well unless I get denied for some reason, I can pick up the gun Friday at the latest. :mad:

MR Surveyer, I have a CC permit, and they still do background checks here in KS.
MW Surveyer, I was kinda surprised about a beauty salon/gun store combo to, but I guess they make it work.

[Bawanna]

Wonder how the administration expects us to cling to our guns and bibles if they keep delaying us getting em. The bastards.

[JohnR]

...I've been informed that I'd better use commercial ammo or a DA or the bad guy's attorney in a civil case will make a big issue out of using "deadlier" bullets and crap.
Hope everyone's week is starting out well.
Huh? Where the heck didja get that from? :confused:

If it were true, anyone using ammo bigger than .22 would get sued. :rolleyes:

[TheTman]

I joined the US Concealed Carry Association (usconcealedcarry.com), and they give out a lot of tips about self defense. They said, that if you were using handloaded ammunition, it could help the opposing attorney portray you as a gun nut, out to make deadlier ammo than you could buy. Seems like some knowledgable people like Massod Ayoob have backed that statement up. In a civil action, the opposing attorney will do anything they can to picture you as a gun crazy fanatic out to kill anyone that gets in your way, and if by chance you were brought up on criminal charges, the DA could do the same thing. They said to ALWAYS use commercially available loads in your carry piece. They tried to paint one gun owner like that for using hollow points, and Mr. Ayoob came to his defense (at a hefty fee) and demonstrated how hp ammo is actually safer than FMJ, since there is less chance of it passing through a bad guy and hitting a bystander. In that case, they said Mr. Ayoobs testimony helped swing the jury to a not guilty verdict. Otherwise the shooter would have been facing some prison time for 2nd degree murder (I think, all this is from memory, and my memory is not that great), all for trying to save some lives. What a mess of a country we live in. There's a revolving door for the criminals to go in and out of jail, but they have to make "examples" of ordinary citizens defending themselves. What a crock.

I may have been mixing cases up in the above, but what I really mean to say was, to be safe from attorneys, use commercial ammo.
Oh, BTW JohnR, nice to see another Dr. Who/Tom Baker fan. He really was the best one. Although these new guys aren't too bad.

[Dietrich]

I believe you are correct about the trial Ayoob testified about.DAs with political ambitions are as dangerous to people trying to defend themselves as the criminals.If you have to shoot in self defense you better have your ducks in a row and you may still posibly face a ton of grief and financial ruin.

[TheTman]

That's for sure Dietrich. Part of the reason I joined the USCCA was to get all those tips about what to do and say if I was involved in an incident. The give you little cards to hand over to a cop that says something like, I'm really confused and upset right now, and don't wish to provide any further statements until I have a lawyer present. Please give me the same treatment you'd give one of your fellow officers if they were involved in a shooting. On the other side it tells you what to say to the 911 dispatcher and what to say and do when the cops arrive. Stuff like make sure you make it a point to stress that you were in fear of your life or another's life you were protecting, try to get witnesses to stick around, or at least get their name and contact info, point out any evidence cops may have missed, ask to sign a complaint against the bad guy, etc. Nice info to have handy when you may be terribly upset and emotional after such an ordeal.

[JohnR]

Oh, BTW JohnR, nice to see another Dr. Who/Tom Baker fan. He really was the best one. Although these new guys aren't too bad.
Yes, Tom Baker was the best!

I don't reload, but if I did I wouldn't lose sleep over what someone thought a lawyer might one day consider doing.

Fortunately, here in Florida, the castle doctrine and self-defense laws are very much on our side. If shooting to stop a felon was determined to be justifiable, there will be no trial. In a civil action (not a very likely event in the first place), I'll take the label "gun nut" (i.e. crime victim) over the label "violent felon" (i.e. dead perp) any day.

[aray]

My father's first name is Lon. He has no middle name. But there is a guy in his state with a first name of Lonny and the same last name who must be a real deadbeat. About once every 7-10 years he has cops show up on his front door looking to arrest him. Fortunately my dad must be 20-30 years older than the deadbeat because, so far, they've never hauled him off to jail. Also, fortunately, none of the arrest attempts have been "no knock"...

[TheTman]

JohnR, you do live in a good state, they might not make a big deal out of reloads. I'm actually worried more about what an opposing attorney might do to me in a civil action, or possibly an overzealous prosecutor out to make a name for themself.
I guess because you can pack more powder into a case if you want and select the best hp bullet available, that makes the reloads "deadlier". It's all a bunch of nonsense, but we have good citizens sitting in prison right now, or bankrupt because of the actions of the courts due to such nonsense. I just want to do everything possible to not give some attorney another stone to throw at me. I sometimes worry about using this Winchester Ranger "For Law Enforcement" ammo. It doesn't say for "Law Enforcement ONLY" but I still wonder if that is enough to give an attorney a little more leverage to sway a jury. I would just say, "it was on the shelf, and I bought it figuring if it was good enough for law enforcement, it was good ammo".
I've heard the old saying better judged by 12, then carried by 6, but the courts can really screw over your life, particularly in a civil action. I'm sure you've read about civil actions, where the paint a glowing picture of the perp, and that he was just about to turn his life around, when you so viciously ended it before he had a chance to turn things around. They do anything they can to paint you as a bigoted gun nut, and if the perp is another race, unless you are black and he was white, then look out.

[DKD]

That reloading deadlier loads is alot of BS! You can only load just so much weighjt of a given powder anyway before you run into over pressure loads that do really bad things to both you and your gun.
there are also diffrenet burn rates on specific powders andf bullet weights that have to be factored in to boot. I have been a reloader for +36 years so all these self proclaimed experts in law suits make me sick. Most of those attorneys are limp wristed, limp D..k meatheads. Most of them are full of more crap than a christmas turkey.

[Bawanna]

I'm curious how you really feel about this subject DKD?

I feel the same way but enjoy reading yours better.

[DKD]

Sorry BAWANNA, I am on a tie raid today. I beleive in telling it like it is...don't give a damn about political correctness...it is ruining our country.

Lead....Follow...or Get out of my Way.... I make no appologies, give no quater, no surrender, come back with your shield or on it.... I am and old Airborne Infanrty Officer. And that is just the way it is.

By the way how are all you guys doing today? Oh before I forget I have a check for you BAWANNA for O'DELL will go out tomorrow.

[Bawanna]

Sorry BAWANNA, I am on a tie raid today. I beleive in telling it like it is...don't give a damn about political correctness...it is ruining our country.

Lead....Follow...or Get out of my Way.... I make no appologies, give no quater, no surrender, come back with your shield or on it.... I am and old Airborne Infanrty Officer. And that is just the way it is.

By the way how are all you guys doing today? Oh before I forget I have a check for you BAWANNA for O'DELL will go out tomorrow.

Well at long last I've found my missing twin brother. I think thats 2 in 2 days. (6 more and we can have our own rug rat television show. Jocko and Kate plus 8. Trust me it'll be a comedy.) I feel exactly the same way in all areas. How I've managed to survive here as PC incorrect as I am is only due to the careful application of medication and deep breathing exercises. I am the king of call em the way I seem em and what a shake up we'd have if I had some power in this country.

I'm not sure what a tie raid is, perhaps tirade? But Ive been on one for about a month, just not my usual self of late. Perhaps mid life is striking me in my prime. I've lost control of my castle, my dog doesn't even listen to me anymore, a door mat is 3 floors above my current level but I woke up breathing this morning so it can't be too bad.

Stand proud, I expect no apology from you thats a positive fact.

[Bawanna]

I'm bet that any glitches that can delay a purchase are encouraged by the present administration, rather than fixed.
Bawanna, there is a place on the 4413(?) form to enter a number that I guess is this number you get from the FBI if you can get your case straightened out. Supposedly this number keeps you from getting delayed in the future. I really don't mind waiting another day, except for the extra gas burned, and at Gun Shows, where you have to make arrangements to transfer the item to a local dealer and is a general pain in the a$$. Used to be no problem when a friend owned a pawn shop and had his FFL, but he sold his business and gave up his FFL, so I don't have a good contact anymore that will do it for free. It would be nice if you could just phone in your info, get delayed, then wait to drive down when the purchase clears, but they won't call for a background check without the 4413 form signed.

I just now received a training bulletin where our state is going to accept applications thru the state patrol for the number you mention. Its for people with what they call compromised identity. It's a form with finger prints that basically proves your not the person with the similar name etc.
Guess it's a brand new thing for us anyhow which is why I hadn't heard of it before.
I guess a card will be issued to the person with their actual state ID number along with other information and a thumb print.
Since all states have state ID numbers it probably has already gone into effect in other states.
Makes a little more sense to me now. Not sure it will be a for sure fix all but hopefully will help some although it didn't seem to do so in your case.

[mcgyve]

Just picked up my CW9, I got delayed also- 3 days from a local gunsmith. I've had my permit since 1978 here in the Empire state. Haven't done anything wrong in all those years, I was told it might be because I didn't give my complete SS# and or I did apply for a TSA job 9 years ago which required an FBI check. I don't know what to believe I think it's almost random at times. Cleaned her up per Jocko's instructions can't wait to put some rounds through it

[TheTman]

I got the OK today about 10 minutes before the shop closed, so will pick it up tomorrow, maybe Friday, had some stuff plannded for tomorrow.
Not sure if I'll mess with that getting that UPIN or whatever it's called. The less contact I have with fed agencies, the better I feel. I have a feeling that people that rock the boat tend to get audited and stuff more often. Sure as hell don't want to piss off some petty buerocrat and get put on some list. Just have to get used to waitin a couple days. Won't be a problem except at gun shows, and I usually try to buy things there that don't need a form filled out. I like my old Mausers and other older guns you don't need paperwork for, YET. Pisses me off to have to wait, but I'm not sure I want em nosin around on me either. Not that I have anything to hide, but I'm sure they could find a problem with my taxes or some other BS to mess with me.

[jlottmc]

Well it's like yesterday, I filed out the 4473 at my soon to be no more to me LGS, and because some one had pissed off the ATF woman years ago, they had me do about 6 4473's. Any where else, it would have been fine, but not there. Thankfully, I got out of there before I got irate with them.

[Fedor]

I must be lucky, I've never had to wait nore than four or five minutes.

[Bawanna]

I must be lucky, I've never had to wait nore than four or five minutes.

Same with me, never more than a few minutes.

As a note- I ran a pistol transfer yesterday on a fellow and a bunch of bad indicators were popping up. I very rarely see one that is a bad guy. Once a guy applied that somehow forgot he was a felon until he was reminded.

Anyhow this guy had some really bad stuff. BEfore I even finished trying to decipher the technical gobbledgook, the FBI was on the phone and said all the flags and bad things are removed, he's ok, proceed.
At first I thought it was one of them let it thru and we'll see where it ends up deals but as I was reading I saw lots of clues that it wasn't the same guy.
Anyhow the Feds worked for the good guy yesterday and he got approved.

Score one for the FBI.

[mr surveyor]

I'm still wanting to know how many of the states where you guys that have these problems in do not require an FBI background check as part of the original issue of license to carry? During the initial application/approval/issue of the license the FBI background check does increase the cost of the license process a bit and adds another week or two to the time frame to obtain the license, but it eliminates a lot of hassle in the years to come. Here in Texas you just show 'em the money, hand them your DL and CHL, and while you're filling in the blanks on the 4473 they are jotting down your DL# and CHL# in the log book. They hand you back your cards, you hand them back the 4473, then you trade them your money for the gun(s) and walk out whenever you're ready.

So, are all these delays (specifically speaking about those folks with current license to carry) due to the lack of having the one time FBI background check in the license to carry process?

Still curious

surv

[jlottmc]

To answer that, some states per the BATFE do not qualify their CHL's (or whatever you want to call it there) as an NICS substitute. Some stores will call regardless (happened to me a couple of times), TX and NC do qualify to substitute for NICS though. I have never been delayed on that end, but have been on the 4473 when I'm a dumb ass, or the store is overly finicky with the 4473 (like last night, but then again, they pissed the BAT woman off long ago). It all still depends on where you go, and how much they want to take your time.

[Bawanna]

All our CCW permits require FBI background checks. Thats how its suppose to work as you suggest and for the most part it does.
Even when the dealer gets the approval and the gun is delivered the paperwork still goes to the buyers local LE where they are checked for local or recent offenses that maybe the FBI doesn't know about yet.

Also checked for Domestic Assaults which is a disqualifier in our state.

A person here buying without a permit has a 5 day wait. During this time they get the FBI check, local check, courts, the whole smear. It usually doesn't take more than a few minutes even for that.

It would seem once a permit is issued it should be smooth sailing but doesn't always seem to work that way. Usually it does but not always.