PM9 Possible bad barrel? Peening a bit in certain spots.

[sttaffy]

After only about 120 rounds this doesn't look right.
It's a new gun, IA serial number.
This doesn't look like the peening from a few years ago, bt it doesn't look OK either. It's enough to get me to take all of these pictures! Please tell me if this is anything to worry about. I really don't like that it is a new gun and I am having any type of metal getting deformed at the same place that the barrels were getting peened. Doesn't inspire confidence as a carry gun.

It has never FTF or FTE, and shoots straight, I'll give it that!

I have a Kahr K9 that shows nothing like this type of wear, with about 1k rounds through it.

Please let me know your thoughts! I'll probably send the barrel and slide back to kahr, but let me know what is a concern and what isn't.

Also, What is the good customer service guy's name? Not the guy that everyone has problems with.

The pictures show:
1. The lockup surface, and how the upper corners are getting smashed in

2. The lockup surface with the two peened areas AND toward the back of the barrel where those angles are getting deformed a little

3. A different view of 1 & 2, the peening on the side of the barrel hood, an angle on the side of the barrel (other side looks the same). The angle looks like it is intentional, but confirmation would be appreciated.

4. Peening on barrel hood, angle on side of barrel

5. Peening on barrel hood

6. Another view of the most disconcerting damage

7. The area on the slide where the lockup surface is hitting - the area that is causing those little divots on the lockup surface

8. The machining of the slide - it looks a little weird the way it is machined - I drew a cross section in red lines to show the changes in angles. This is the area that is causing the peening on the barrel hood.

9. The lockup surface - this is indented a little bit down to the red line. You can see where it is shiny - this is where it seems beaten in a little bit. This is the same surface that was getting peened that caused the recall.

I also posted this at Glock Talk.

Thanks!

1.
http://www.amcmanus.com/HOSTED%20IMAGES/PM9/DSC04451.jpg

2.
http://www.amcmanus.com/HOSTED%20IMAGES/PM9/DSC04452.jpg

3.
http://www.amcmanus.com/HOSTED%20IMAGES/PM9/DSC04453.JPG

4.
http://www.amcmanus.com/HOSTED%20IMAGES/PM9/DSC04454.JPG

5.
http://www.amcmanus.com/HOSTED%20IMAGES/PM9/DSC04456.JPG

6.
http://www.amcmanus.com/HOSTED%20IMAGES/PM9/DSC04457.JPG

7.
http://www.amcmanus.com/HOSTED%20IMAGES/PM9/DSC04458.JPG

8.
http://www.amcmanus.com/HOSTED%20IMAGES/PM9/DSC04459.JPG

[sttaffy]

9.
http://www.amcmanus.com/HOSTED%20IMAGES/PM9/DSC04461.jpg

[wagon]

I would send the the complete gun to Kahr for them to look into, especially those "smashed in" corners at the front of the hood (and in #5, #6) doesn't look right.

My PM9 has the same angle as you outlined in #8.

Some other areas look like contact surface with the slide in action rather than peening ... but I am all new to Kahr myself, so I can be wrong, as always. For ref purpose, my new barrel has gone thru 206 rounds just last Monday and does not have the "smashed in" appearance, and less "shiny areas", i.e. contact surfaces with the slide when the gun is in action.

Yours just 120 rounds? Did you buy it new? BTW, when you assemble the barrel/slide, e.g., after cleaning, did the barrel just drop into the position or you have to push it down to seat? Just curious whether or it had a tight fit when new.


No doubt that other more experienced Kahr owners will chime in (I am a noob in Kahr guns), you'll surely get better input from them. Good luck.

[Wayne's World]

Holy cow! I have shot over 1200 rounds thru my PM9 and it looks nothing like the photos above. I agree with "wagon" when he (she) says "I would send the the complete gun to Kahr for them to look into". That is a major hassle concidering that when someone spends over $700 on a gun, you expect it to be top notch. There are a few threds on this site that give me pause on the purchase I made. So-far, so-good, though. No probs yet, but watching, carefully.

[jocko]

staffy:

PM sent...

by the way, nice photos

[BigD]

I also don't have any of the dented areas on mine, however I do have all the same "wear" style marks on mine. Infact im at right at 230 rds (that I have shot, used gun) and my wear marks are a bit worse then that. Nothing looks damaging though, just seems like wear surfaces from the extremely tight tolerances.. Will be watching to see how this plays out though.

[deadhead1971]

Ok. I have had 2 PM9 barrels.

Photo #2--my both barrels had shiny spots generally where you have them marked.
Photos#5 & #6--the first barrel did the same thing--the hood top edge dented in--but it was not as bad as yours. The new barrel is dented even less than the first. It's not really noticable.
Photo#9--can't remember what the first barrel looked like here, but my new replaced barrel has some wear, shiny spots on the front of the hood where you have that red line drawn

The only thing that is bad, in my opinion, is that dent in photo #6. You can hone that bent edge down with a sharpening 60/80 honing stone (if you want to keep the barrel).

I can give you off-line in a PM the contact at Kahr, name and e-mail address. You can e-mail him the photos and see what he says. Contact me if you want it.

There is going to be some reasonable wear on the barrel (shiny spots). Is yours unreasonable? Maybe. It's hard to tell.

I would suggest you go to the "tech" forum here and read the threads on barrel flaking--that is something you need to watch out for too

[kpm9]

MY PM9 has many of the markings yours has, including the little indentation by the chamber in pic and the sides near the front of the locking block. Those are clearly from recoil and the the front of the locking block hitting the inside of the slide.

The shiny areas are normal.
If it runs, then just shoot it and don't worry about it. It's doubt any of that is going to effect accuracy or cause an unsafe condition. Hasn't in mine with 1500+ rounds.

You might want to order a new recoil spring if you don't already have one.

[wagon]

KPM: what is the recommended mileage for the spring? I think it's a good idea to keep 1~2 handy. My PM9 is ~300 rd right now, fyi.



You might want to order a new recoil spring if you don't already have one.

[deadhead1971]

what is the recommended mileage for the spring?

I can't cite any specific source, but I remember reading like 2,000 to 3,000 rounds before the spring needs to be replaced.

Do you just replace that 1 big spring? Or the other piece (guide rod) too that has a spring.

[jocko]

I can't cite any specific source, but I remember reading like 2,000 to 3,000 rounds before the spring needs to be replaced.

Do you just replace that 1 big spring? Or the other piece (guide rod) too that has a spring.

replace the big spirng about 2000 rounds and leave the little one alone. Seems to work perfect..

[kpm9]

I replaced mine @ 1000 rounds. When I got the replacement, it was noticeably stronger/longer.

I searched but didn't find the pic of the 2 side-by-side, but it was out on this forum IIRC.

[sttaffy]

The whole gun is back at Kahr, I was told to expect about a two week turnaround. I'll keep you guys posted...

[jocko]

I replaced mine @ 1000 rounds. When I got the replacement, it was noticeably stronger/longer.

I searched but didn't find the pic of the 2 side-by-side, but it was out on this forum IIRC.

springs will take a pre-designed set which does not mean they have lost power..

[kpm9]

Well my point was missed I guess. :rolleyes:
The springs were different and not because one took a set, as taking as set for a PM9 recoil spring will not mean less coils and a full .375" shorter.

[sttaffy]

I sent it off last Monday and got it back today (Friday). They said it would take two weeks but it took ten days. They paid both ways no problem. Ian was very helpful and quick with his emails and Shawn was good to talk to on the phone.

I got the gun back today - the enclosed sheet said only:
"Inspected. Replaced slide and Barrel. Lubed and test-fired, OK."

Looks like they replaced all of the other pieces that went with the slide as well. The sights looked as if they'd been drifted off my gun and put on this new slide assembly. The gun is as tight as it was before I started the break-in. The barrel looks a bit different than the old one - the old one was more gray, this one is shinier.

I should be able to fire it on Sunday, I'll report back.

[wagon]

Congrat! You basically have a new gun back -- except for the polymer frame. Shoot at least 200 rds, if all goes well without drama then it should be a keeper.

Yes, CS are indeed wonderful in Kahr Arms.

[sttaffy]

put 200 rounds through it, regular remington 9mm, and it chewed them and spit them out no problem. No FTF, no FTE, no failure to return to battery. Nothing but a few times that it failed to lock back on an empty mag, and that tapered off to zero instances by then end of the 200 rounds. The slide and barrel look new still. The lockup is rock-solid, and all critical surfaces look perfect. No chewing on the polymer frame rails, no brass shavings anywhere, the spent brass looks nice.

I'd take pictures of the barrel but it would just look brand new. It's the shinier version, not the gray media blasted one.

Shoots straight as an arrow, too.

Got myself a winner!

Kahr CS was the ****. No hassle, good to talk to through email and on the phone, quick (and generous) repair, and it cost me nothing. :D

[wagon]

Good to hear that the issue is resolved!

[mx5fan]

You know, the top of my barrel looks like the first pic posted by sttaffy. Does anyone or everyone else's look like that, as well?

[jocko]

You know, the top of my barrel looks like the first pic posted by sttaffy. Does anyone or everyone else's look like that, as well?

went but unless ur barrel is showing peening that wear u are seeing is normal and for some reason kahr puts a coatingon their all nickel palted barrels, and u are seeing the coating wearing off. there is contact upon ejection of the upper inside of the slide running backover the upper top of the chamber. . Thetop of my G19 is half worn off withthe black finish that came on the barrel..

[mx5fan]

OK, thanks Jocko...I'm not exactly sure what "peening" really is, but since my PM9 shoots really well, I'm not inclined to worry about it. I just thought I'd check to make sure it's normal.

[mike m]

I have 307 rounds thru my pm9,and no marks like that at all

[wagon]

My 1st barrel ~180 rds. No such obvious "indentation" (may be a wrong term) in the barrel hood area in the as shown in OP's pix.

My 2nd barrel 206 rds. ditto above.

"Normal" (or not) is subjective to one's expectation, and should include how many rounds under normal use in the consideration. Abnormal to me can be normal to you, and vice versa. You should compare with your other semi-auto pistols as reference point.

Apparently, after inspecting OP's PM9, Kahr concluded to replace the slide and the barrel -- under warranty. Good for Kahr and good for Sttaffy.

If you are uncertain, you may sent some pix to Kahr and have them to tell you if it needs to go back for further inspection or not. I think that would be the most appropriate.

Good luck.


OK, thanks Jocko...I'm not exactly sure what "peening" really is, but since my PM9 shoots really well, I'm not inclined to worry about it. I just thought I'd check to make sure it's normal.

[ontarget]

This is my first try at a comment.

I have 3 kahrs first is mk40 great pistol but what a kick. ABT. 350 ROUNDS

2nd is a pm9 also a great little gun. ABT 500 ROUNDS I LET OTHERS AT THE RANGE FIRE IT (WITH HIS AMMO)

3rd is a p380 i just love this one. 200 ROUNDS NICE NICE NICE

But all three have some peening like the photos.

On the ejection side of the hood.

None have ever missed a beat.

It seems like just a normal kahr thing.

Hope this helps with your problem.:)

[Jim K]

Send it back. No reason to accept this kind of garbage.
Get Kahr to pay for shipping both ways.
Kahr has excellent customer service. take advantage of it.

BTW, there are folks who will try to make excuses for a defective product. Paid endorser or shill is the word.

Good luck, it looks like your pistol could use some.

[jocko]

Send it back. No reason to accept this kind of garbage.
Get Kahr to pay for shipping both ways.
Kahr has excellent customer service. take advantage of it.

BTW, there are folks who will try to make excuses for a defective product. Paid endorser or shill is the word.

Good luck, it looks like your pistol could use some.


who that statement was directed at. What an idiot:banplease:

[Jim K]

who that statement was directed at. What an idiot:banplease:
Sorry you feel that way Jocko. If you think that a statement may be directed at you then maybe YOU are the idiot. Maybe just a kook.

The Kahr pistols have a good design but from what I've seen and read they are seem to be getting a black eye from QC problems. This is just my opinion but it is still a valid point.

If you have hurt feelings because someone challenged what you believe then too bad. I can PM you a hurt feelings report if you wish.

Please remember that this is a forum to exchange ideas and information, not a personal soapbox to attack other members.

Merry Christmas Jocko.

Merry Christmas to all mankind, Jim K

[jocko]

trust me Jim K, u ain't smart enough to hurt my feelings, Just post away, the forum enjoys your trivia. Other than sarcasm, u don't add to much to this forum. and u have a merry Christmas to, maybe santa will bring you a really good gun....

humm: paid endorser or shill, not an a personal attack, Humm...I stand by my statement, u are an idiot..but heh, when u decide to add something positive to this forum, please PM me in advance, so that I don't miss it..........

[deadhead1971]

You two are night owls--posting in the wee hours of morning. Go get some sleep.

[varoadking]

What an idiot...


...YOU are the idiot...


...u are an idiot..

You fellas may be new to online forums, but there's no reason or excuse for this kind of juvenile behavior...

[jocko]

probably right, been on many online forums, so I am not new, can't speak for Jim K. I stand by my statement, whether you approve or not..

How about "totally uninformed person" would that sneak through the censors????

[Jim K]

Hi Jocko,

Apparently I did hurt your feelings. Sorry about that. Even though it's easy sport, it was not my intent. Chill out.

Santa did bring me a new pistol. It's a CZ75-PO1. Low price and 100% reliable right out of the box. It's not so pretty that I worry it'll get scratched It appears to me that there are no QC issues with airframes & firearms manufactured in the Czech. Republic.

Y'all have a merry Christmas and remember that we celebrate the birth of Jesus. It's not about stuff.

Jim K

[jocko]

Hi Jocko,

Apparently I did hurt your feelings. Sorry about that. Even though it's easy sport, it was not my intent. Chill out.

Santa did bring me a new pistol. It's a CZ75-PO1. Low price and 100% reliable right out of the box. It's not so pretty that I worry it'll get scratched It appears to me that there are no QC issues with airframes & firearms manufactured in the Czech. Republic.

Y'all have a merry Christmas and remember that we celebrate the birth of Jesus. It's not about stuff.

Jim K oh so glad that sucker worked or it would be in the mail pronto. No u didn't hurt my feelings, but if u think u did I accept your apology. The day u hurt my feelings is the day I get off this forum:59:

But you know you should also live by ur standards to. You preach, if it ain't right out of the box, then it must go back, no TLC or anything but yet back in Sept. you stated you hacked your extractor pin to make ur P9 work, and then u insisted that kahr give you the extractor tension specs, as if u deserved this inside knowledge, of which u found out that they would not do so. So why is it ok for you to hack and mess with your P9 and yet when some on here, myself included try to help a person who has issues, u constantly say send the "garbage:" back. It should be perfect out of the box??? Seems to me the old adage of " do as I say (send the garbage back) but don't do as I do, (hack grind Ur P9) doesn't apply to Jim K...

As u found out by hacking on your P9, many guns can be tweeked without sending them back, Many just need a good through cleaning and lubing, which many feel they should be that way when they buy them, and we know they are not. IMO, ur hacking on the P9 extractor system merely "masked" over what in your gun was truly an extractor issue, not indicative of kahrs, so no hacking is needed on most all kahr extractors but it does go to show that one can sometimes fix something that is not right without sending it back..

Time will tell on the CZ

Hope Santa registered that gun:59:

[wagon]

This thread has been hijacked !!! Respect the OP and go start a new one.

Outisder looking in will think we're a bunch of NOOBs...

[jocko]

I seriously doubt that.......