Put DeltaPoint red dot on Kahr?

[KahrfulTharPilgrim]

My EDC is a PM40. My tired old eyes (behind tri focals) take way too much time to get the front sight in focus. I have been considering installing a Leupold DeltaPoint. My questions:

1: Would that help get a faster, accurate first shot?

2: How do I get it mounted? One of the mounts that come with the sight fit a Kahr? Know of a pistolsmith with success doing the job?

Know anyone who has had this done that I can "talk" to?

New to this forum. Looks good.

thanx

[jlottmc]

Good luck with this endeavor, this is a very new idea of putting dot sights on defensive carry guns and not just race guns anymore. I have no idea if any one has done it yet, but it had to be a matter of time before it happened. From what I've seen, those little pistol red dots give about the same advantages as their bigger brothers that are all the rage on an AR or shotgun. Things that would concern me are 1. is that mount to replace the rear sight 2. are you going to have to have the rear of the slide machined (the ones I've seen need it, unless it is a brand new FNP45 (comes that way from the factory) 3. are you going to be able to find a holster for it 4. is the little sight going to be a pain to maintain, and if it's pulled will you need to re-zero 5. what happens when the thing breaks? Those are some big ones in my mind, and I really can't be a beta tester for that, how about you?

Welcome to the asylum.

[Kingcreek]

I've toyed with various optics and red dots on race guns, handguns, and carbines. IMO, just spend yer money ($200 or less) on a Crimson Trace laser trigger guard. no gunsmithing, no fuss, and it won't add a lot of weight on top or make it awkward to holster and handle. Holster would have to change but there are lots of options. I carry a PM9 with CT laser in a CrossBreed MiniTuck BTW. Red dots have thier place, but I can't quite see the advantage up top on a carry piece.
I must have missed the announcement for the spring membership drive but welcome to the forum! (You get to learn the secret handshake after the mandatory probation period)

[Kingcreek]

I want to add, for a red dot to be fast and effective, it has to have a pretty large viewing area. which will change the dynamics and overall size of the weapon.

[Bawanna]

I'm with Kingcreek on this one. Try the CT laser setup. I think that would fulfill your needs without adding a bunch of bulk on top of your gun.

[Tilos]

Most self defense 1st shots are at bad breath range and I don't think the sights will mater much.

Your element of suprise is lost if you need to extend both arms at eye level and look for sights:o.

With a laser, you can see where the shot will go with the gun close to your side at hip level:D.
You never need to look at anything but the bad guy:cool:.
No ones going to see the gun there or try and grab the gun:p.

The BG will only know about the gun when he hears the bang and says "I've been shot".
If YOU hear him say that...you need to pull the trigger again:eek:.

just sayin'
Tilos

[KahrfulTharPilgrim]

Thanks for the replies.
Yes, I’m and early adapter so I spend my life fighting with beta flubs. I design holsters which is one of the reasons I want to try this type of sight. Addressing the bulk issue, it’s thinner than my Kahr and will be less than 3/4” above my present Trijicon. I made a Kydex mockup and, being on the opposite end of the fulcrum (I wear an IWB at 3:30) it protrudes little. On my present IWBs the Kydex extends up and protects the rear sight and I want to try that on this type sight. Yes, a main reason I’m looking to add a red dot is that they’re prevalent on the race guns at the winners’ tables; lasers are not. As for why I’m leaning towards a DeltaPoint: a. It withstands 50 kazillion Gs of shock. b. Small profile and only .6 oz. c. Motion activation. They can be removed/remounted while holding point of impact – not important to me as I find what I like best and leave the gun that way. This is just the unit that pushes my button today. I someone knows of a model that would work better, holler.

I have read elsewhere that “they wouldn’t use these for duty or defense.” I would – or I’d get rid of them. I remember hunters many years ago that said they thought scopes were great but that they wouldn’t trust them in the field. You sure don’t hear that from knowledgeable people today. I think the same will be true with these quality sights with quality mounts. Or, like I said, they’re gone.

Know any top smithies that I should call for the milling or whatever I need?

Again, thanx much.

[Bill K]

Most self defense 1st shots are at bad breath range and I don't think the sights will mater much.

Your element of suprise is lost if you need to extend both arms at eye level and look for sights:o.

With a laser, you can see where the shot will go with the gun close to your side at hip level:D.
You never need to look at anything but the bad guy:cool:.
No ones going to see the gun there or try and grab the gun:p.

The BG will only know about the gun when he hears the bang and says "I've been shot".
If YOU hear him say that...you need to pull the trigger again:eek:.

just sayin'
Tilos

Mostly agree with this post from Tilos but not entirely... I would try something like XS big dot sights before going to a laser. Have a laser on one of my P3ATs and am a firm believer in benefits of lasers for training and practice; I'm not sold on them for carry. Your SD situation could be in bright light making it hard or impossible to see the laser dot. You could be looking for a dot when you should be shooting. Take my opinion with a grain of salt; I'm not an expert but I have a bit of experience.

Bill K.

Ps. 66 years old with those continues lenses so I can appreciate where you're coming from. :(

[Tilos]

As I see it, most hunters have the element of concealment...are never shot at...or even charged by game, except in Africa where iron sights are prefered.

I mentioned the benefits of a laser, but never suggested removing the open sights.

I use all the help modern technology can give, to aid my tired old eyes...in gun games, but not self defense.

YMMV
Tilos

[Bawanna]

Thanks for the replies.
Yes, I’m and early adapter so I spend my life fighting with beta flubs. I design holsters which is one of the reasons I want to try this type of sight. Addressing the bulk issue, it’s thinner than my Kahr and will be less than 3/4” above my present Trijicon. I made a Kydex mockup and, being on the opposite end of the fulcrum (I wear an IWB at 3:30) it protrudes little. On my present IWBs the Kydex extends up and protects the rear sight and I want to try that on this type sight. Yes, a main reason I’m looking to add a red dot is that they’re prevalent on the race guns at the winners’ tables; lasers are not. As for why I’m leaning towards a DeltaPoint: a. It withstands 50 kazillion Gs of shock. b. Small profile and only .6 oz. c. Motion activation. They can be removed/remounted while holding point of impact – not important to me as I find what I like best and leave the gun that way. This is just the unit that pushes my button today. I someone knows of a model that would work better, holler.

I have read elsewhere that “they wouldn’t use these for duty or defense.” I would – or I’d get rid of them. I remember hunters many years ago that said they thought scopes were great but that they wouldn’t trust them in the field. You sure don’t hear that from knowledgeable people today. I think the same will be true with these quality sights with quality mounts. Or, like I said, they’re gone.

Know any top smithies that I should call for the milling or whatever I need?

Again, thanx much.

As we receive a few more facts and reasons for your plan it makes a bit more sense. I certainly wouldn't want to discourage you from following thru with your plan. Thinking outside the box sometimes is a wonderful thing.
Perhaps some pictures of the sight set up close to the gun to get a grasp of your idea would be a benefit.
I don't know where to point you for the machine work but any decent gunsmith shop in your local area should be able to do whats required.
All the big shops could do it, Robar comes to mind. I know Novak has a mill but might take a long time. We had a local guy here that surely could do it but he's semi retired and moved to the southern part of the state.

[johnh]

I have experimented with small dot sights (not that one specifically) on pistols in place of the rear sight. I find no issues with this other than the added size. They are easier to pick up than normal sights. If they have a power failure, one can use them as a large ghost ring in a pinch. Certainly good enough for close up work. Some have a notch in the frame that acts as a backup rear sight. They do add cost, and my personal shooting style does not rely on sights that much, so I have not gone any further than playing with it on a long ago sold Glock. I have thought about doing it again on a home defense pistol, as I have been wanting to set up something fast to shoot with a very high capacity magazine to use for that purpose. I have seen some interesting Glock 34 and 35 packages other shooters set up that way. In part this is to make it easy for my wife to grab and go, as she would have a light, very easy to use dot sight, and around 30 rounds to solve any problem that cropped up. ;)

[gknola]

There's nothing like resurrecting a 7 month old thread.

My situation is - I have 3 Delta Points and love them. All are on M&P 9's, a 9L that's a USPSA Open (Major), a 9FS that's a steel Open gun and a 9c which is my primary CCW. Since I shoot the Delta Point's an average of 3 days a week and have 71 yo eyes, it's the way for me to go. I've been carrying it for a year and I'm delighted with it. Using one on a CCW seemed strange to many of my shooting friends at first but more and more have come to the conclusion that it is the wave of the future for those that can afford it and use the sight regularly. It's right there, day or night.

The M&P 9c is always inan IWB holster and I also carry a PM9 and / or a P380 as a pocket carry BUG. There are times where I need deeper concealment and carry the PM9 IWB and the P380 in my pocket.

The PM9 and P380 both have CT LG's and I've grown increasingly unhappy with them over time. The wear and tear of daily pocket carry causes them to lose their sighting and they need to be resighted at least monthly.

I would like to put either a Delta Point or some other small, ALWAYS ON or AVAILABLE (like an Aimpoint) on the PM9. The Delta Point would involve either milling the rear dovetail or the entire rear of the slide, or fabricating a new dovetail mount that fits the existing dovetail in the slide, the latter being my preferred approach for my initial testing. I don't have to modify the gun or the sight, just have a simple dovetail fabricated. This becomes a fairly cheap experiment so I'm going to try it out

I thought I'd find out if anyone has taken this further in the last 7 months either with the DP or another RDS an can shed some light (pun intended) on the subject.

[tv_racin_fan]

I was thinking about doing a Burris Fast Fire on a K9 myself. It would make it a bit hard to pocket carry but should work just fine in a modified pancake.

[Rainman48314]

My EDC is a PM40. My tired old eyes (behind tri focals) take way too much time to get the front sight in focus. I have been considering installing a Leupold DeltaPoint. My questions:

1: Would that help get a faster, accurate first shot?

2: How do I get it mounted? One of the mounts that come with the sight fit a Kahr? Know of a pistolsmith with success doing the job?

Know anyone who has had this done that I can "talk" to?

New to this forum. Looks good.

thanxTry Todd, owner of Customized Creationz in Washington, MI

http://www.customizedcreationz.com/

[Longitude Zero]

I say give it a shot. But don't expect an easily concealable weapon to emerge. For me there are far better platforms for a red dot. Putting one on the Kahr destroys its primary virtue, concealability. But to each this/her own.

[mct883]

Any luck with this? Just searched the forums and found this. I am looking at doing the same thing. pics would be nice. even if it was not practical, just because we can.

[gknola]

Any luck with this? Just searched the forums and found this. I am looking at doing the same thing. pics would be nice. even if it was not practical, just because we can.

A fellow shooter in southern Louisiana is a devotee of RDS on a carry gun. We both have Delta Points on our primary M&P 9's (his a FS and mine a 9c) which we carry all of the time. We also both have PM9's which we carry either as BUG's or, on occasion, as primary our CCW. I have a P380 which I also carry as a BUG.

We've been kicking the can down the road on a Delta Point on the PM9 for a while and he finally did it. You can see pictures and his explanations here: http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/showthread.php?71489-Worlds-first-RDS-Equipped-Kahr&highlight=KAHR

I want to take a different approach and create a Delta Point mount that will fit the PM9 rear sight dovetail but haven't put a real effort into it yet. I want to take the same approach on my P380.

As an aside, my Crossbreed IWB's fit my M&P / Delta Point without modification. I believe that my Crossbreed IWB's for my PM9 and P380 will need minor modifications. My pocket holsters for these guns will also need minor modifications (DeSantis Superfly and Recluse holsters).

[gknola]

I say give it a shot. But don't expect an easily concealable weapon to emerge. For me there are far better platforms for a red dot. Putting one on the Kahr destroys its primary virtue, concealability. But to each this/her own.

Based on my experience with my M&P with RDS, I expect that a Kahr in an IWB holster will be no more difficult to conceal or access. A Kahr in a pocket holster will possibly be a different story, not so much from a concealment standpoint but from an unencumbered draw from a front pocket with the additional height from the DeltaPoint.

[mct883]

thanks gknola. any pics of that slide with the sight off? curious of how much milling was done.

[gknola]

He also posted a thread on this forum - http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=10194

Go ahead and post your questions there

[mct883]

thanks