extraction issues Again

[TexasK9]

Attended our department's concealed carry for law enforcement class which entailed alot of running, fighting, and over 500 rounds of shooting. well i brought out my off duty guns and gear. Out came my favorite off duty weapon the MK9. Right off the bat i began experiencing fail to extract/jams. the empty casing was not spit out and facing almost vertical with the new round jam underneath. The casing and live round were jam so tight that a tap and rack didnt even work. I literally had to force the mag out the bottom end to get the jam cleared. this went on over and over again, until i put the gun up and brought out my sig239.
ammo used was department issued practice : Winchester FMJ 124 grain
had never had an issue with this ammo before nor my duty ammo: Speer Gold dot 124 JHP.
Gun was lubricated the night before and not dry. I have had the gun not even a 1 1/2. Spoke with John with Kahr Customer Service.He is sending me a new Guide rod spring. If i am not mistaken the spring is attached to the guide rod. So i am hoping it comes with instructions. If this doesnt work it will have to go back to KAHR. At least it happen in training and not on the job!
has anyone had this problem?

[GadsdenGalt]

I had one stovepipe during my break-in period. After that, the gun has been perfect with everything even a couple hundred rounds of Igors finest steel cased wonder ammo from Soviet Russia. My MK9 does seem to beat the hell out of the cases though.

How many rounds have you put through it?

[TexasK9]

I have the gun almost 2 yrs. put in a little over 600 rounds. I took my sister shooting with it and fired at least a box and a half of old hollow points 147 grain speer gold dots and several fmj. All zipped right through without a hicculp. There was only one fail to extract and that was because it was majorily limp wristed. Clean the day lights out of it. the only thing different i did to it (not sure if this did it), was used break free ccp (which i use on my two duty guns) took the gun apart and played with the trigger and looked at the internals and everything seems to be functioning fine.Nothing appears to be cracked or loose.

[monkeyapeman]

I feel your pain brother... there isn't a much worse feeling than having your carry weapon continue to have issues.

First thing I'd do, is carry something else until you are satisfied that the issue has been resolved. Secondly, I'd replace the ejector and related parts, extractor and extractor spring, and of course as Kahr recommends, the recoil spring.

I've had my Mk9 elite for about 4-5 months and it has been rock solid. I'm sitting at approximately 1200 rounds and the thing is a beast. I've done one complete armory strip of the upper recently and found that that the extractor is actually quite difficult to clean completely with a basic field strip; consider ordering the parts and then replacing them during your armory strip.

Good luck man!

[pappy42]

First, examine the chamber to see if the factory coating has flaked and created a rough spot. If so; a light polishing with Flitz or Simichrome paste may help.

Visually check the ejector for chips and or deformity.

Shouldn't be a factor; but you didn't happen to spray your lube into the clean out hole in your slide did you? If you did, that could be a factor. Spray that clean out hole with gunscubber or brake cleaner per Jocko's tutorial and don't put any lube in there afterward.

If you have the patience, replace the recoil assembly and see what happens.

Then replace the extractor and spring.

Did you introduce new or different magazines into the equation?

The trick is do one thing at a time until the problem is cleared up, that way, you learn. If you do every change at once; you might resolve the issue, but not really learn what caused it.

[Bawanna]

The trick is do one thing at a time until the problem is cleared up, that way, you learn. If you do every change at once; you might resolve the issue, but not really learn what caused it.


Words of wisdom here. I had an officer report his Glock was malfunctioning every single mag. Slide lock, FTF on and on. I took it apart, everything looked just fine. I took it to range, had 5 other guys and myself shoot the heck out of it, not one failure.
Firearms instructor told me to replace every replaceable part in the gun. I flat refused, told him it was the dumbest idea I ever heard.
He said theres a time for an armorer to figure stuff out and a time to just fix it. My rebuttal was that it didn't need fixing. If 6 guys can shoot it, limp wrist it on purpose, shoot it upside down and not have a failure you got a shooter issue.

A glock rep was in the area and we ran it by him. 1 minute grip tutorial and no more issues. Go figure.

Take it one thing at a time, eliminate the possibles and Jocko is fond of saying and exercise a little patience and these things will rock.

[jocko]

u mean bawanna u bucked the system. You know These firearmsn instructors absolutley know it all and they know everything about every fokking gun to. That is why they are FIREARMS INSTRUCTORS. U are just a lowly armoroer and those 6 guys that shot it and had no issues, they certainly don't know what the hell their talking a out either. Becuase this guy IS A FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR, and that as u know puts them actually one step below God, whom we know, knows all things and that is why God made that a-hole A FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR..

[Bawanna]

Silly as it is, you've just perfectly described how things really are in the firearms world. There's firearms instructors and the rest of us lowly subhumans.

Of course there are some excellent and normal instructors out there, (none in law enforcement that I've ever encountered, course cops are trained to be alpha's and not listen to anyone) that should not be lumped into this category. Sadly they are in the minority.

I've often had a desire to become a new shooter instructor as I like to help people but I don't want to be trained to be an A hole and get a swelled up head. It's really hard to swagger when your in a wheelchair. I'll just freelance.

[jocko]

ur the grand poobah here, so that qualifes you to be a a-hole, with out being a FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR. Why duplicate what u already are??? We tend to love you though the way u are, wheels or no wheels..

[cgarcop]

I share your pain. I sent mine back with over 500 rounds fired for the same problem and peening. Most of the malfunctions were like you described, spent shell failed to eject and the next round beneath couldnt feed. A few stovepipes mixed in. They polished the barrel but said the gun functioned fine. I just thought the metal on metal contact that was casuing the peening slowed down the forward momentum of the slide. The gun worked better but continued to malfunction, not nearly as bad. Close to a dozen times for every 100 rounds.
Instead of calling customer service, I ordered the Wolffs 22.5 spring and guide set up, being I wanted to do that anyway. Last nights range session resulted in another dozen malfunctions over the course of 150 rounds. Now at over 1000 rounds fired and though it doesnt malfunction as often as it first did, I'm still not comfortable with it for everyday carry.
I dont have it in me right now to call customer service and argue over the shipping cost. I'm thinking about just ordering a new extractor and ejector from kahr for the same price of shipping but that would void the warranty. Will probably give it one more try with a Wolffs extra power mag spring I ordered at the same time as the steel guide rod set up. Not to confident that will solve the problem. The gun was malfunctioning with both the 6 and 7 round mag.

I'm eager to get it right. very accurate for a small gun. malfunctions aside, its a pleasure to shoot when I can get through a mag or 2 without it jamming up

[jocko]

ordering new parts should not void any warranty. I would suggest you do that before sending it back to kahr..

[cgarcop]

Thats the paranoid in me. I'm thinking if they see me ordering parts that require breaking down more so than field stripping, they'll know I took the slide apart.

[cgarcop]

Similarities. thoughts ?

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/phase3.html

There was another issue, where they took our glocks and filed down the ejector. Dont remember the reason behind it but I'm sure it wasnt the same "phase 3" issue

[jocko]

Thats the paranoid in me. I'm thinking if they see me ordering parts that require breaking down more so than field stripping, they'll know I took the slide apart.

the slide all th eway down does not void any warranty. recoil springs are parts, magazine springs are parts. magazine followers are parts. One can replace any part he wants whether broker or not and not void warranty. Modify their parts and it might be another story, but if u sanddown a follower to smooth it up. it sure ain't gonna void a bad barrel being warranted.
If a slide stop breaks and u order a new one that does not void warranty. I thynk your really worrying to muchb about something that just is not going to be ever an issue.

My two cents on this..

[cgarcop]

I called Kahr and got a RA number. Thought about buying a new ejector and extractor but I figured I shouldnt have to put more money into making it work right. Its an expensive gun to begin with.

[TexasK9]

I read the posting on the Gun Zone. And that is exactly what i am experincing " A phase III malfunction". the recoil spring has not arrived from kahr. But your right CGAROP its a very expensive gun and new gun to be experiencing this type of problem. Its gonna take a long time before i will carry it off the clock.

[TexasK9]

Will Kahr did send me a new guide and spring system. went to the range and between classes was able to put in about 65 rounds. of the 65 rounds shot. i had the following:
* round ejected but followup round did not make it up the ramp all the way. (round 5/6)
* round 13 was a stage 3 Malfunction
* round 17 was a true stove pipe that was easy to clear.

rest of the rounds went off without a hitch. I am wondering if the indexing of my thumb against the side of the gun might be the culprit. not entirely sure. i reposition my thump in a very uncomftable position and still had the stove pipe. may put more rounds down range and see what happens before i start carrying it again.

[cgarcop]

Just got my MK9 back from kahr moments ago. hopeing they got it right the second time around.

The tech service worksheet lists action taken as follows:

Tested. Replaced extractor. tested. polished extractor. Lubed and test fired 50+ rounds. tested OK.

Visually, it looks as if the front of the extractor doesnt protrude slightly out of the slide. I'm positive it did before. Does anyone think that may have contributed to the spent shell getting caught up in there or maybe to the barrel peening ?

[jocko]

well ur jnext outting willtell u alot. cross ur fingers andjust shoot the gun like u stole it take no prisoners..

[cgarcop]

Looks like kahr got it right this time around. 150 rounds with ZERO malfunctions. A first for this gun.