That Pesky Break-in Period!

[OldLincoln]

I keep coming across the "why does a Kahr need a break-in period" posts on forums and continue to respond, but today came across information on the resurrected Coonan 357 Mag Semi-auto handgun. It's a 1911 stainless model retailing for $1,200 for the basic model so of course it's ready to shoot out-of-the box, right?. Wrong, per them, "the initial break in of the pistol is accomplished in 200-500 rounds." Wow, really?

I have to say I suspect they have the magazine thing figured out though and I'd love to see similar for Kahr.

First they have a pivoting follower that allows a steeper nose up angle on bottom rounds thereby reducing the gap between the second and top rounds. I believe this would allow Kahr rounds to have less nose dives on initial rounds. Take a full mag and do a slow-mo controlled racking watching the rounds come off the mag and you'll see what I mean. They dive less on each subsequent round.

Second they have a simple but ingenious way to load mags without chipping your nail polish!

First, notice the hole in the mag follower and the little tool. More importantly, notice the round angle increases as you look further down. This is the opposite of Kahr mags which have the angle match the follower's up to the second round, then the top round gaps up. If it pivoted the follower would change it's angel and rounds are expended. You can see how the second round's nose is snug against the top round. Bet the top round doesn't nose dive!
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_5854.jpg

Insert the little tool in the hole:
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_5855.jpg

Pull the follower down with one hand and reload with the other:
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_5856.jpg


Cool huh?

[melissa5]

Sharp as a tack!

[Dietrich]

Looks like a good idea to me.

[jocko]

IMo every gun out of the box needs a break in. U can call it what ever you want but if anyone buys a new gun and loads the magazine and the gun and then calls it good to go without some rounds out of it, is just IMO a damn fool. Most kahrs realy don't need any 200 rounds through them, as we just read of so many who took it out of the box, cleaned and lubed it and shot it like they stole it. U don't hear of to many people buying a new car and the dealer telling them to drive it like they stole it. When parts move, they need to mate up properly to move right and to move longer. If you buy a $2000 gun and they mfg-er tells you he shot it 200++ times, then you damn well better break that gun in also before staking your life on it. The thing with kahr over every mfg-er that I know is that kahr actually tells you that in the owners manual. My Para carry 9 acted up and when I called Para about it, they said call them back after you get 500 rounds through it. It shot itself clean by then to. One can gripe, bit-h, complain or whatever and say by gollly it should be perfect out of the box, but with most guns, that is just not so. Kahrs do seem to shoot some of their early on issues out by round 200, and when they don't it is then time to call kahr and discuss the next step.

[mr surveyor]

I have wondered why Kahr hasn't come up with a hinged follower magazine for the last two years. It can't be that difficult.

[OldLincoln]

Especially if it cured a lot of the fail to feed issues!

Just occurred to me that it would likely mess up the slide lock open on empty feature. But I do think it could be engineered around.

[OldLincoln]

Just for the heck of it, I stuck a small bit of wood dowel between the follower and the nose of the first round as an experiment. For the first time I could slow rack rounds into the chamber.

With the mag crammed tight with 5 rounds in my 6 round mag, the top one was a tad nose high, but all the rest were snuggled together at the nose like I think they should be and the rounds simply slipped up the ramp into the chamber.

The loss of 1 round was because I added the dowel on top of the follower and I don't think that would be the case if a pivot were built in under it.

It's something I wish Kahr would pursue. If not them then an aftermarket outfit. I also checked out the slide lock feature and believe that could be easily overcome.

[GadsdenGalt]

I am new to Kahrs, but the mag issue is one I noticed immediately the first time I ever shot one.
Maybe we should petition MecGar?

That tool for the magazine is a great idea. Sadly, I lose things, so I would have to have mine attached to my gun like a drill chuck.

[melissa5]

I like how .22lr pistol mags have a kind of knob built into them to pull the springs down for loading.

[mr surveyor]

melissa

you will also notice that the "button" is recessed into a channel in the side of the magazine. Full sized mags probably would not be able to handle the extra parts due to the tight confines of the mag well.... good thought though:)


surv

[OldLincoln]

It was just a piece of 1/4" dowel about1/2" long I had sitting in a catch all on my desk. I didn't trim it or anything, just stuck it in there on a whim.

I don't think the skin of a follower will shape enough to do the trick. It looks relatively easy to pin the bottom of the Kahr follower but I don't know if the front and back skirts will allow enough slope change. I'll mess with it in a few days and see what come out.

[mr surveyor]

I just don't think a rigid follower reshaped to any particular angle, other than that the engineers at Kahr designed, will change anything for the better. Each round that comes off the top of the stack changes the "angle of attack" of the new top round... a follower that could moprh itself to the new angle of attack would be better able to hold the top round firmly with the feed lips of the magazine.....but, what do I know.... I just a lowly dirt surveyor:)


surv

[Bawanna]

Maybe so, but your opinion counts enough with me to save a magazine follower from "death by Dremel". :D

That's a good one, worth storing in the tool box of classic saying.

Death by Dremel. Heck yeah.

Wynn, what do you think. I know enough of my stuff has bought to to the out of control rabid dremel. Course most power tools have the same effect with me at the controls.

[OldLincoln]

I just don't think a rigid follower reshaped to any particular angle, other than that the engineers at Kahr designed, will change anything for the better. Each round that comes off the top of the stack changes the "angle of attack" of the new top round... a follower that could moprh itself to the new angle of attack would be better able to hold the top round firmly with the feed lips of the magazine.....but, what do I know.... I just a lowly dirt surveyor:)


surv
That's why I believe the answer is a follower that swivels like they did on the Coonan. Look at the rounds in the mag and see how they change angle from top to bottom. The swivel allows a push up from the bottom giving the rounds the option to adjust for each to sit snug against the one above and below. Of course the follower angle will change as the mag empties to match what you see for each round. Now that's cool!

[Catshooter]

Old,

So, is that Coonan mag yours? If so, would you please take it apart and post pics of the parts?


Cat

[OldLincoln]

>>is that Coonan mag yours?<<

In my dreams!

[Bawanna]

The 357 being a rimmed case they had to figure out a swiveling follower. A 20 round magazine would almost make a full circle.

The same setup would work in a Kahr but the feed lips would have to be tightened up and more restraining. Seems like it would be simple enough to do for a metal guy with the right stuff.

Mine seem to work just fine so I don't feel any need to mess with them. The top of the mag to the chamber isn't a very steep angle so I'm not sure how great the benefits could really be.

Course you could invent just the thing that solves all auto feeding issues world wide and have to hire people to keep track of your loot.

[Bawanna]

Exactly. But it seems like it would be hard to get the rims in the wrong order. Seems like once one cartridge was started, the next would have to be in front.
I suppose with the spring pulled down one could maybe bounce over but I'm sure the tolerances are designed to help prevent that. Just a guess.

I've held a couple but never shot or seriously played with one.

Would like to of course. Add it to the list.

[jlottmc]

The other option would be am interrupter like the Mosin Nagant uses. I was kinda wondering how Coonan solved the rim issue.

[OldLincoln]

I have a notion of how to modify a Kahr follower to pivot. I'll mess with it a bit in a day or two. The pivot itself should be easy, don't know if the skirts need to change.

[jlottmc]

They would almost have to. It can be done, but I have neither the inclination, nor the time nor the materials to play with right now to make a go of it. Easiest way would be to rivet a small hinge to a follower after it is cut. Just my quick thoughts on it.

[Catshooter]

Actually rimlock isn't an un-heard of problem in some poorly designed .32 ACP mags. They're a semi-rimmed cartridge and even though you can load them properly, during recoil a rim can jump. Bad when it does.


Cat

[mr surveyor]

rimlock was not a problem with the .32 acp until the advent of the shorter oal jhp's. as long as the cartridge length was standardized for ball nosed rounds, and the magazines were designed for that particular length cartridge, there was no room for a lower round in the magazine to be propelled forward to cause a rimlock on the round above. look at the angle of the magazine itself on any pistol, includong the monster .357 semi above, and you will see that the base, or rim area, of each upper cartridge will load and stay forward of the cartridge below.... as long as there is NO room for the cartridges to move forward. I think you may find that Larry Seecamp designed his original LWS32 around a specific jhp cartridge for optimum ballistics performance, but the longer, less expensive fmj's would not fit the magazine. I think rimlock is possible on any .32 acp, regardless of "price", if it was designed for standard ball ammo and shorter jhp's are used.

as for the design of a follower for the Kahr pistols, I still think the hinged follower, similar to that in the Chip McCormic Shooting Star magazines would work. since the 9mm cartridges are tapered, I am assuming this problem is only inherent in the 9mm Kahr pistols?


surv