Open Carry

[Old Salt]

Been in PA a month already and last week I received my Pennsylvania (LTCF) License To Carry Firearms, sure feels good to carry again. Pennsylvania allows Open Carry, coming from a state that did not allow open carry it’s kind of strange. I guess it’s up to the individual but for me I’ll stay with CC, besides I’ve heard the City Police like to hassle people that walk down the street open carrying.
Sorry jocko and Bawanna45cal now that I’m in PA I guess there is no need to send you my guns.

[jocko]

How claose are u to York?? beent hre and toured the Harley Plant there. bvig place.

[Old Salt]

How claose are u to York?? beent hre and toured the Harley Plant there. bvig place.

Northwestern PA on the Southern shores of Lake Erie. York is about a 6 hour drive from Erie.

[TD2K]

Headed to Allentown to work at our PA plant next week. Still trying to decide if I want to go through the hassle of bringing my MK9.

[deadhead1971]

I support the right to open carry. Personally, I won't do it because it creates too many issues and possible hassles when out with the general public--regardless of what state you are in.

Watch this and you decide...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2jgHXQHYT4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKZfa_XweBo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FWXnK5UyRI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJVpCMyMKWU&feature=related

[.45fan]

Folks, a right not exercised is a right lost.
I OC on a regular basis, and we spend time educating the chiefs of police and city councils in problem cities about the error of their employees ways and after a few years we are not getting hassled much anymore.

[deadhead1971]

Agree. This is just my personal decision.

It sounds like you have done a preemptive strike by education. The point of the videos was to show that unnecessary hassles may occur which we all know.

One of the reasons I choose to not open carry in public is because I am afraid businesses will start posting "no gun signs" which have the force of law here in NC.

[TD2K]

Oklahoma is debating making our state open carry. My husband (a LEO) is totally against it. If it passes, neither of us will open carry. I teased him though, said "if it passes, I am SO getting a Dessert Eagle. In fact, I'd need 2, otherwise I'd walk tilted to one side".

There are too many places that do not allow firearms (gub'ment buildings, schools, a lot of medical bldgs, etc). If a bad guy sees some big hog hanging from your side and then sees you go into one of those buildings, where did you just leave that firearm? In your vehicle. And now it's gonna get jacked.

[Bawanna]

Historically these open carry discussions have rapidly deteriorated to down right ugly in short order around here.

We live in a profiling world as un PC as that might be it happens and I think it really needs to happen as thats why things are messed up like they are.

To me it would be scarey to see some of the basic dirt bag types walking around with a gun on their hip and I don't blame LE one bit for questioning them. The dude in the first video I would seek to question even without a gun, just has the I'm up to something look about him.

Probably just me but the folks that are so pro open carry are also the same ones that look like they just got out of an institution and should probably not have. I do support open carry, just for when your covering garment slips or you make a quick trip to the mailbox. But I do not open carry and can't imagine I could ever be comfortable doing so.

See how things are already getting ugly. Anyhow since I'm gonna just climb into the viewing stand and watch this one let strive to stay civil. It's an emotional hot bed for sure with lots of folks in both camps.

[deadhead1971]

One other thing. NC is an open carry state because state law does not mention it and therefore it's not prohibited. So what's not specifically prohibited is interpreted to be allowed.

NC law is complicated. Here is what state laws says. NC is a Dillon's Law state which means cities, towns, and counties (subdivisions of the state) cannot do anything unless state law says they can.

§ 160A‑189. Firearms.

A city may by ordinance regulate, restrict, or prohibit the discharge of firearms at any time or place within the city except when used in defense of person or property or pursuant to lawful directions of law‑enforcement officers, and may regulate the display of firearms on the streets, sidewalks, alleys, or other public property. Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit a city's authority to take action under Article 36A of Chapter 14 of the General Statutes. (1971, c. 698, s. 1.)

Notice that last part. Some local cities and towns do have ordinaces prohibiting open carry (they call it display of firearms) on "public" rights of ways -meaning you can't walk down the street but you can open carry on private property (businesses and eating places). A sidewalk running in front of your house within a public right of way ir public property because the city or town is responsibe for maintenance. See here: http://www.townofcary.org/Departments/Police_Department/Community_Services/Firearms_within_the_Town_of_Cary.htm

Now there is a whole "unconstitutional" argument to go along with that but I am not aware that it has been to the courts.

[TD2K]

http://www.gomonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/can-of-worms.jpg

(sorry)

[deadhead1971]

TD2K - I don't think it's come to that. Nobody here is opposed to open carry. Some just choose to exercise their "right" not to. :)

[OldLincoln]

I suspect there a lot of "rights" not commonly exercised, but I disagree they are lost. I cannot say as a known fact, but strongly suspect if one were to read through case law they would discover a wealth of legal activities supported by the constitution that are seldom practiced, perhaps not for 100 years or more, but still they are legal.

Until the need exists, I'll remain concealed. However, I have worked and lived in places that open carry was the norm and for good reason so I did. It was in high country and the threat was of the 4 legged variety. Every body came from the wild into town and just didn't disarm.

I am confident open carry will fail to sway the masses to consider it the norm. What it will do is promote laws to make it illegal as the bill in the CA legislature currently.

The second amendment isn't going away no matter how much one frets about it. But I fear common sense is not so enduring.

[TheTman]

I'm generally prefer not to open carry handguns, which I believe is legal here in Kansas, at least in non-urban areas, except when on my own property or business,
farming, and when hunting or fishing. I feel no need to advertise that I am carrying to the general public and bad guys in particular. I do support the right to open carry, like Bawanna says, sometimes a garment gets caught on something and your weapon shows. I feel that shouldn't be a crime, but I guess it can be called "brandishing a weapon" in some places.

[jocko]

with a ccw permit one can do so in Indiana but I can assure you, ur gonna get challenged by every cop that see u, EVERY COP. Just for me not worth it. Maybe that is why I have not seen that in and around the Terre Haute area for many years.

But as u know some people just have to show their ass without pulling their pants down..

[AFVet]

I was born and raised in Erie, PA. Nice family place. We'd move back, but the economy there is not so great.

Agree with you on the open carry. I like the element of surprise with concealed carry.

[Catshooter]

I too prefer the element of surprise.


Cat

[CW9owner]

I'm not educated on the open carry laws . From watching the videos it seems one thing is in common for the most part and that is looking for a confrontation with law officers concerning this right. First of all do we really need to waste their time and our money in this way. I mean just walking around wanting someone to call in about this looking for a confrontation just to prove a point is wrong - there are better ways. I know all don't act in this way, I do support the right for those states that have the law, citizens should have the right in those areas. I just hope while these type of actions are going on in this way family members are not in need of offices to aid with serious crimes underway. It would be a terrible shame if the wife of the man walking around with the headphone was raped in broad daylight - but officers could not respond due to wasting time dealing with the husband arguing about open carry laws and rights. THERE ARE BETTER WAYS to deal with this topic.

[Old Salt]

Hay guys this was just an observation about open carry in my home town and state of Erie Pennsylvanian. I’ve lived in South Carolina for the past five years, I never had a concealed carry permit until I moved to the South. When I returned to Erie I applied and received my first LTCF and was not aware there was such a thing as open carry. I do not want to get anything started on this forum and I’m sure and support the moderator will shut my post down if it gets to heated or disrespectful. I certainly support the right to open carry but I personally will not and do not open carry. This is my decision and I hope you will respect that decision just as I support your decision if you choose to open carry.

[Catshooter]

CW9owner,

You say there are better ways to deal with this topic? Mmm, not trying to jab you, but can you say in what better ways you are dealing with this topic?

If the answer is nothing, then those who are walking around open carry in an effort to educate their local cops are doing more than you, even if you disagree with how they are doing it.

Secondly, cops rarely catch someone in the act. It happens, and it can seem to happen alot because lots of cops do catch people doing non-violent acts. An example is traffic violations.

But rapes? Or the equivilent? Naw. They'd love to, but it doesn't happen often. Ask a cop with 30 years on the force how many violent crimes he's interrupted. Chances are good it will be a few, but not many and 30 years is a whole lot of hours on the street.

You gotta think more long term here. Someone walking around open-carrying with the intention of drawing LEO attention is educating the system. That takes time. But once it's done, then it's done and then everybody is more free than before.

I'm really not trying to prod you, just giving you a different point of veiw. And this is from someone that it would take incredible circumstances to make me OC.


Cat

[Bawanna]

Old Salt, no worries, your responsible for your own actions but not those of others. So your aces with me.

The problem with this whole open carry thing isnt the police officer or at least they aren't the whole problem.

It's public perception. We've gone 100 years since the days of the old west where everyone wore their gun to town and even then sometimes towns made you hang them up. I saw Wyatt Earps gun hanging in a bar in Juneau where he turned it in and didn't pick it up.

It's not something the public is used to seeing and it screams for attention.

Even people who are into guns do a double take when they see someone walking down the street with a gun on their hip.

I seriously doubt it will ever be accepted as common place again. Police will continue to get man with a gun calls and they will respond or contact if they see you first. Some of those towns that advocated open carry as a statute might make it happen. Its heavily publicized and everyone in that town knows this is ok.

I still advocate open carry for the occasional wardrobe malfunction but I'm keeping mine under wraps, much as I'd like to display them.

The phrase, we need to educate local cops does not set well with me. As stated earlier it isnt the cops that are the issue. And they have a multitude of other BS they need to remember.
I compare it to riding a Brahma Bull with your hands tied behind your back.
All it takes is one citizen complaint valid or not and a officers career can be over. The one job where you can do everything right and still get fired.

[dirty_sanchez]

Agree. This is just my personal decision.

It sounds like you have done a preemptive strike by education. The point of the videos was to show that unnecessary hassles may occur which we all know.

One of the reasons I choose to not open carry in public is because I am afraid businesses will start posting "no gun signs" which have the force of law here in NC.

Proud OC'er here in South Louisiana.

I agree with the "Rights not used are Rights Quickly Lost" argument along with all of the pro's and con's associated with either mode of personal protection carry.

To the OC neg's in the room, I say don't give me static and I won't give you static-Leave me along and I'll do the same for you.

No Guns Signs down here are commonly known as No Fly Zones. I take my business and money elsewhere and the problem is solved.

Dirty

[jocko]

I don't buy those bumper stickers slogans anymore!~!! and thats alalthey are IMO>

[CW9owner]

CW9owner,

You say there are better ways to deal with this topic? Mmm, not trying to jab you, but can you say in what better ways you are dealing with this topic?

If the answer is nothing, then those who are walking around open carry in an effort to educate their local cops are doing more than you, even if you disagree with how they are doing it.

Secondly, cops rarely catch someone in the act. It happens, and it can seem to happen alot because lots of cops do catch people doing non-violent acts. An example is traffic violations.

But rapes? Or the equivilent? Naw. They'd love to, but it doesn't happen often. Ask a cop with 30 years on the force how many violent crimes he's interrupted. Chances are good it will be a few, but not many and 30 years is a whole lot of hours on the street.

You gotta think more long term here. Someone walking around open-carrying with the intention of drawing LEO attention is educating the system. That takes time. But once it's done, then it's done and then everybody is more free than before.

I'm really not trying to prod you, just giving you a different point of veiw. And this is from someone that it would take incredible circumstances to make me OC.


Cat

Looking for a confrontation as demonstrated in these videos is not educating anyone but causing a disturbance . I'd say just for a few examples start with local city council meeting - in these types of meeting you can get the public and officials together as a group with discussion on this topic. Awareness groups I'm sure there is a way to get the word out to the general public that in your area this is a right citizens have.The net can be useful as well. As far as cops rarely catching crimes in the act give me a break this happens all the time. Clearly in those videos while the police officers did treat most of these guys with respect , their time { officers} our tax payer's money is wasted with these type of tactics. To make this work you don't start by trying to educate the officers first - they don't make policy they follow a procedure pasted down the chain from above. Start at the top, urge governors, mayors, cith council members to get involved to get the information out. There are other sources I'm sure, NRA, right to bear arms groups,legal groups need I go on - I'm sure I can come up with more ideas and I'm not even involved in this.

[CW9owner]

Looking for a confrontation as demonstrated in these videos is not educating anyone but causing a disturbance . I'd say just for a few examples start with local city council meeting - in these types of meeting you can get the public and officials together as a group with discussion on this topic. Awareness groups I'm sure there is a way to get the word out to the general public that in your area this is a right citizens have.The net can be useful as well. As far as cops rarely catching crimes in the act give me a break this happens all the time. Clearly in those videos while the police officers did treat most of these guys with respect , their time { officers} our tax payer's money is wasted with these type of tactics. To make this work you don't start by trying to educate the officers first - they don't make policy they follow a procedure pasted down the chain from above. Start at the top, urge governors, mayors, cith council members to get involved to get the information out. There are other sources I'm sure, NRA, right to bear arms groups,legal groups need I go on - I'm sure I can come up with more ideas and I'm not even involved in this.

Sorry in my first post on this I never stated I was involved - the post started with I believe what is your opinion- my opinion is there are better directions to take than showed in the videos.

[apheod]

I'm generally prefer not to open carry handguns, which I believe is legal here in Kansas, at least in non-urban areas, except when on my own property or business,
farming, and when hunting or fishing. I feel no need to advertise that I am carrying to the general public and bad guys in particular. I do support the right to open carry, like Bawanna says, sometimes a garment gets caught on something and your weapon shows. I feel that shouldn't be a crime, but I guess it can be called "brandishing a weapon" in some places.

you have it right, but its not all urban areas. unless prohibited by local law, OC is legal in KS. wichita has no ordinance banning it, but i guarantee you'll encounter problems if you try it in town. the only place i can remember off the top of my head banning it outright (except in your home or place of business) is overland park, but i know there are more.

personally, i just stay concealed. if you see my weapon, its about to be used.

[Catshooter]

Sorry in my first post on this I never stated I was involved - the post started with I believe what is your opinion- my opinion is there are better directions to take than showed in the videos.

CW9owner,

You are absolutley correct, my opinion. Thanks for you calm, reasoned response.


Cat

[.45fan]

with a ccw permit one can do so in Indiana but I can assure you, ur gonna get challenged by every cop that see u, EVERY COP. Just for me not worth it. Maybe that is why I have not seen that in and around the Terre Haute area for many years.

But as u know some people just have to show their ass without pulling their pants down..

I am not familiar with the gun laws of IN, are the cops allowed to detain you for the challenge you mentioned?

[.45fan]

I'm not educated on the open carry laws . From watching the videos it seems one thing is in common for the most part and that is looking for a confrontation with law officers concerning this right. First of all do we really need to waste their time and our money in this way. I mean just walking around wanting someone to call in about this looking for a confrontation just to prove a point is wrong - there are better ways. I know all don't act in this way, I do support the right for those states that have the law, citizens should have the right in those areas. I just hope while these type of actions are going on in this way family members are not in need of offices to aid with serious crimes underway. It would be a terrible shame if the wife of the man walking around with the headphone was raped in broad daylight - but officers could not respond due to wasting time dealing with the husband arguing about open carry laws and rights. THERE ARE BETTER WAYS to deal with this topic.


Rosa Parks was told the same thing, "there are better ways to deal with this". She disagreed with that comment as do I.

Most states (yours included) do not have a OC law. A law is usually made to stop something, meaning there is no law saying that you can wear a blue shirt on Tuesday, the purpose of most laws would prevent you from wearing a blue shirt on Tuesday.

Did you know that only 7 states (plus DC) do not allow open carry?



ETA: If enough people got their head out of the sand and educated the public, people wouldn't get raped while cops were wasting time messing with those who are doing nothing illegal. If people would spend time helping cops/dispatchers get trained better, the MWAG calls would be handled much better. Rather then sending somebody running code for a man with a gun call, they can ask "what is the person with a gun doing"? When the caller says shopping at Wal-Mart with a holstered gun, there would be no need for a big hurry to check out the non illegal activity at Wal-Mart.

[CJB]

Here in Fl, we're on the brink of passing an open carry law, with permit.

Just my own little world of opinion, but the good book tells us there's a time and place for everything. A time to open carry, a time not to. A time to not not carry at all, a time to go well armed.

I'd rather be able to, and not, than not be able to at all. For me in my lifestyle... concealed in my jeans pocket is about as friendly as I need, but if somebody makes a fuss because they see the end of my magazine or somethin', I like being legally protected, and I like having the option to open carry, when and if the need arises.

[jocko]

I am not familiar with the gun laws of IN, are the cops allowed to detain you for the challenge you mentioned?

honestly give you an answer to that, as although OC is legal. it just is not done. They can detain one for abourt anything up to a point. Naturally if you have done nothing wrong they can't do anything but they can hold u up from going where you were going for awhile at least. To me not worth the hassle of this happening time and time again. They will challenge you and what happens after that is how the challenge between u and the officer has occured. If he is an a-hole u rgoona get some b.s thrwon at you. If youir an a-hole expect to go no where.

For me I just chose to not advertise to a cop or for that matter anyone. I see cops every damn day on my motorcycle, pass some around this area on their police motorcycles and I can assure you if I have a gun strapped on myside when I go buy them, they are going to pull me over. I just don't need that crap to prove my point.

each to his own...

[ltxi]

I can't believe I'm letting myself get sucked into commenting on this subject yet/once again. But....

Open carry has a place. Rural Montana, working a ranch in Wyoming, hunting in Pennsylvania, off-roading in Colorado, trail hiking in New Hampshire, etc.

Open carry in downtown Philadelphia or any other, especially anti-gun, city simply to provocatively assert a "right" is seriously, seriously stupid and is seriously damaging all of us and the cause.

Completely unrestricted open carry ended before the turn of the 20th century, well back in the late 1800's. Get over it, move on, and quit making the resurgent assertion of our second amendment rights more difficult than it already is!

[Longitude Zero]

Open carry in downtown Philadelphia or any other, especially anti-gun, city simply to provocatively assert a "right" is seriously, seriously stupid and is seriously damaging all of us and the cause.

Completely unrestricted open carry ended before the turn of the 20th century, well back in the late 1800's. Get over it, move on, and quit making the resurgent assertion of our second amendment rights more difficult than it already is!

Agreed.

If I was a bad guy and open carry was legal in the area I was operating who do you think would be the first to die when I pulled my job??? Open carry is a target to be hit first.

[.45fan]

honestly give you an answer to that, as although OC is legal. it just is not done. They can detain one for abourt anything up to a point. Naturally if you have done nothing wrong they can't do anything but they can hold u up from going where you were going for awhile at least. To me not worth the hassle of this happening time and time again. They will challenge you and what happens after that is how the challenge between u and the officer has occured. If he is an a-hole u rgoona get some b.s thrwon at you. If youir an a-hole expect to go no where.

For me I just chose to not advertise to a cop or for that matter anyone. I see cops every damn day on my motorcycle, pass some around this area on their police motorcycles and I can assure you if I have a gun strapped on myside when I go buy them, they are going to pull me over. I just don't need that crap to prove my point.

each to his own...

I understand your position on OC and have zero problem with it, I am just wondering if you did want to OC how hard it would be. The cop is MI used to try and harass/challenge OCers, but a group of us started contacting their chiefs and city councils and let them know it was illegal (in MI) and that if they continue they would be held accountable, the majority of the harassment stopped.

I am not sure about there, but here a cops qualified immunity is void if they violate your rights (recording can help prove this), so once they realize (that you know) that their attitude can cost them their house, cars and kids college money, most of them rethink their position.

It is not legal here for a cop to demand ID or your carry permit just because they see your gun. That is why I was asking about the IN laws, because they could be completely different which would change things a bunch.

[Bawanna]

I hope everyone considering pursueing Law Enforcement as a career reads this last post. Even the good guys are after your job, your house and your kids college funds. (whats a kids college fund?)

Is this a great career or what?

[.45fan]

I can't believe I'm letting myself get sucked into commenting on this subject yet/once again. But....

Open carry has a place. Rural Montana, working a ranch in Wyoming, hunting in Pennsylvania, off-roading in Colorado, trail hiking in New Hampshire, etc.

Open carry in downtown Philadelphia or any other, especially anti-gun, city simply to provocatively assert a "right" is seriously, seriously stupid and is seriously damaging all of us and the cause.

Completely unrestricted open carry ended before the turn of the 20th century, well back in the late 1800's. Get over it, move on, and quit making the resurgent assertion of our second amendment rights more difficult than it already is!

Wow.

The funny part about this post is that those of us you seem to be saying are making problems are actually getting results. Feel free to compare your states gun laws with mine, today and 10 years ago.

Did you know that in the places I can not CC I can OC? Thank you for trying to endanger my family by making less places I can defend them, I hope you sleep well at night.


Hows that unrestricted CC thing working out for ya? lol

[Bawanna]

Sleep well my friends. In the immortal words of my good friend and administrator JohnH. This ones ran it's course.

bye