Should ignorant people be allowed to vote?

[aray]

Given the source (CNN) a surprisingly interesting and provocative article: http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/04/12/granderson.ignorant.vote/index.html?hpt=C2

[Jeremiah/Az]

Should ignorant people be allowed to vote? No! I believe that any voter should have basic knowledge of the system & the candidates. How different would the outcome of elections be?

[gagnejs8]

I agree.... People should have to know something in order to vote.

[Willieboy]

I think people should be able to vote in accordance with their contribution to society. If one contributes nothing, or worse yet, is a drain on society they get no votes. Also, noone gets to vote until they have a job and are paying taxes. Also, noone gets to vote unlesss they're conservatives. Also, .....!

[ltxi]

Ok, I'll bite. With the caveats that we're really talking ignorance, as opposed to stupidity, and my personal belief that anyone who wants to vote should be required to take a positive action to register as in before "motor voter" syndrome....how do you differentiate or force someone to be not ignorant?

[ltxi]

I think people should be able to vote in accordance with their contribution to society. If one contributes nothing, or worse yet, is a drain on society they get no votes. Also, noone gets to vote until they have a job and are paying taxes. Also, noone gets to vote unlesss they're conservatives. Also, .....!

My wife doesn't have a job at the moment through no fault of her own, so she doesn't get to vote despite being an intelligent member of a high income, tax paying family? She's also drawing unemployment benefits from an insurance program she's essentially paid into for decades....does that make her a drain on society?

[MikeyKahr]

We can only go by what the law says about who can vote (an adult, a citizen, etc.). Though we may wish it were different or more defined, there's nothing stated about a competence level or ignorance level.

[BuckeyeBlast]

I'm for a simple test. A map test on the front of the ballot card.

If you can't identify the location of the USA and Washington DC on a map of the globe, then your votes don't count in a national election.

If you can't identify your state and state capital on a map of the USA, then your votes don't count in a state/local election.

Simple, yet effective.

[ltxi]

I'm for a simple test. A map test on the front of the ballot card.

If you can't identify the location of the USA and Washington DC on a map of the globe, then your votes don't count in a national election.

If you can't identify your state and state capital on a map of the USA, then your votes don't count in a state/local election.

Simple, yet effective.

And that proves lack of ignorance wrt anything essential that matters in any given election how? All you've just done with that test is to eliminate the utterly, hopelessly stupid.

[mr surveyor]

ignorance is bliss. just ask basic questions of 51% of the voting public.

[ltxi]

We can only go by what the law says about who can vote (an adult, a citizen, etc.). Though we may wish it were different or more defined, there's nothing stated about a competence level or ignorance level.

This is very true and actually not all that bad. You can't force folk to study and reach reasonable conclusions on issues. My biggest problem, by far, with our system today is automatic voter registration. I'm old enough to remember that if you wanted to vote you had to take some proactive step to register. Today it's get a driver's license or maybe even just a library card and a ballot shows up in the mail. I hated that concept when it began and am even more dismayed by it now. We fault politicians for playing to the lowest common denominator but we're the enablers.

[BuckeyeBlast]

And that proves lack of ignorance wrt anything essential that matters in any given election how? All you've just done with that test is to eliminate the utterly, hopelessly stupid.

It matters in an election by eliminating the utterly, hopelessly stupid from the polls. I'd bet that the percentage results in the 2010 election would've been quite different if the votes didn't count from the people who are utterly, hopelessly stupid and can't identify the USA on a map. ;)

[Willieboy]

My wife doesn't have a job at the moment through no fault of her own, so she doesn't get to vote despite being an intelligent member of a high income, tax paying family? She's also drawing unemployment benefits from an insurance program she's essentially paid into for decades....does that make her a drain on society?

Your wife gets two votes Itxi.

[jimbar]

well, I don't have a job, but I do pay some taxes, although not a lot.I get a pension, and soc sec disability, and I figure I earned that with 4 yrs service (USN), and 34 yrs working after that, so I don't consider myself a drain on anybody.
As for the hopelessly stupid and clueless being able to vote, I think if they were prohibited, we would have a different pres right now.

[Chief Joseph]

As well as the ignorant voters, it's the ILLEGAL voters I really have problems with.

[Willieboy]

My reference to having a job was in reference to college kids who are full of ideals but little life's experience or common sense. I would like them to have a bigger stake in the country before they help determine how country is going to be run.

What I vehemently oppose it the fact that people who have done nothing but sit on the front porch drinking their forty ouncers , playing dominos and holding out their hands out for the resources for which somebody else worked. This has been going on for generations in too many cases. If one is unwilling to get off their dead asses, get an education, get a job and do their part, in Willieboy's World, they would not have earned the right to vote.

The Democrats and the Left want to give convicts the right to vote. How wrong-headed is that?

By the way, I absoultely agree that the ignorant should not be voting, nor should the illegals. I also agree people must do something affirmative in order to vote.

[Tiki Mon]

Our founders would say "NO." They tried to make sure "good folks" were in charge, as best they could imagine.

We definitely needed to open up the voting rolls, such as to women and non-whites. That's all for the good.

However, universal unqualified suffrage is a bad thing. It lets the failures and criminals and parasites vote, and what do you think they vote for? Now liberals want non-citizens to vote, all for crass political gain. Eventually the system is taken over by the losers, and everyone loses. Which is how the US is being turned into the (failed) UK.

[Bawanna]

We got two bingos in a row here. I totally agree with the college kids line, their professors indoctrinating them and all the feel good bs that goes on. Criminals, parasites, non legals voting, who could comprehend such a thing?

The current administration certainly could.

All I know is the people I vote for never win, and theres a severe lack of common sense in America these days.

[jlottmc]

Maybe B you should switch sides and vote for the others that you don't want to win then. I think if they try to get that crap going that it'll be game over and then they will have their own little world called Kommiefornia that is floating away. As for the college kids thing, I agree to a point. Remember that not all who would be called kids, and attend college are that inept. Should there be a poll test in order to vote, sure why not, but the potential for abuse is too great. The best solution is to give the libtards their own little country and let them run it into the ground. Send them and the lawyers there.

[MW surveyor]

I'm staying out of this one.

Ah, what the heck. The main question is "Where do you draw the line?"
Non-citizens, of course they should not have a vote. Last I recall, I can't vote anywhere I'm not a citizen. Which means, I can only vote here in the USA.
Non property holder, IQ less than a certain percentage/score, skin color, hair color, eye color, place where you live.....

This is a slipery slope debate.

[Bawanna]

Maybe B you should switch sides and vote for the others that you don't want to win then. I think if they try to get that crap going that it'll be game over and then they will have their own little world called Kommiefornia that is floating away. As for the college kids thing, I agree to a point. Remember that not all who would be called kids, and attend college are that inept. Should there be a poll test in order to vote, sure why not, but the potential for abuse is too great. The best solution is to give the libtards their own little country and let them run it into the ground. Send them and the lawyers there.

Too many of them to give them their own country. I guess Siberia would be good, the whining would freeze the moment it left their mouth.

Mexico might work, can't be too many people left there as residents, mostly tourist and gun runners and cartels. Too close to home though, they'd try to sneak back.

[Willieboy]

Another solution I've thought quite a bit about is along the lines of giving the left their own country to ruin. I wish that could happen. I'd even be open to dividing this country if that were practical. A way to accomplish the same thing though would be to allow taxpayers to determine how a portion of their personal taxes would be allocated. In Willieboy's World, every citizen would pay their fair share to support the consitutionally required role of government, such as defense. All other government spending though, would have to be supported only by the tax dollars of those who believe in the programs. That way, the liberals could direct a portion of their tax dollars, and additional contributions if they wish, to support the National Endowment for the Arts, Acorn, NPR, Planned Parenthood, and all the other goofy causes they support. Conservatives could direct their taxes to the functions of government they support. Again though, everybody would be required to support those govnmental functions required by the consitution.

I would not mind paying so much in taxes if I could be sure the money was being spent on things I support and I'm sure liberals resent every dollar they've earned spent on conservative leaning causes.

In Willieboy's World, if there was sufficient support from the left to maintain organizations like Acorn, for example, Acorn would exist. If the left was unwilling to put their money where there mouthes were, well, adios Acorn. But not one penny of mine would end up in the Acorn coffers.

[getsome]

My favorite segment on Jay Leno's Tonight Show is called "Jaywalking", Man on the street...Jay goes out on the streets and picks random college age kids walking past on the side walk and asks them basic questions like, Who is the Vice President? Way too many don't have any idea at all, one said D!ck Cheney...Jay asked one kid how many members make up the United States Senate, again he didn't know and made up a number...He asked one young lady if she knew what the Bill of Rights was and her answer, "I'm like not really sure but I think it's like when you like get arrested for something you like have the right to remain silent"...While she was trying to come up with this answer she had to do the head sling thing 7 times to get her hair out of her face...I think whats wrong with the young women these days is brain damage from all that head slinging for hair fashion, kind of a perment state of mini concussion...All of these kids were well dressed and in college which is very sad and when Jay asked who they voted for President last election guess what every single answer was, Yep Presbobama and all said they thought he was doing a great job (couldn't say exactly what that job was) and they were going to vote for him again in 2012...:eek:...I really think the drinking age as well as the voting age should be raised to 21 at the very least to keep educated idiots like these examples out of the voting booth for as long as possible and it's just this bunch of fools that may get Obama back for 4 more years...:w00t::mad:

[Bawanna]

I say raise the drinking and voting age to 45. Give time for all that touchy feely give peace a chance crap to drain off.
I think your onto something with the perpetual mini concussion thing, sort of like shaking your baby later in live. Like ya know brain damage.
If that morphadite miscarriage (the rest is banned) gets reelected I'll just like scream.
Cue head flip. Crap, no hair to flip, mini concussion anyway.

[Willieboy]

Good post getsome. Have you noticed that most times, when Obama is addressing a group, that group is made up of a bunch of kids on a college campus. I guess at some point these kids will get some common sense and awareness what must change if the country is to survive.

My daughter went to college at the University of Texas. When my wife and I accompanied her there for a parents/students orientation, I was shocked that the liberal indoctrination began at that session. Were on campus about an hour when the speakers began running down Republicans and anything othet than liberal thinking. It really is too bad.

[MW surveyor]

Bill - It will take about 10 years out in the real world for just some of that to go away. Been there, done that and all I got were a couple of base ball hats.

[O'Dell]

I'm going to throw my own can of worms into the discussion. Where did the 'right to vote' come from anyway? Certainly not from the Constitution. The only mention is the 15th amendment stating that a state cannot DENY the right to vote based on colour or race, and the 19th which states the the right to vote cannot be abridged because of gender. I suppose that it may be found in state constitutions, and I'm not going to look them all up, but as far as I can see, there is no 'right to vote' in federal elections. Chew on that one.

[DKD]

Originally our Found Fathers / Framers of our Constitution wanted only land owners, and people who generally contributed to the common good of the nation the right to vote.
I think they were originally on to something here....

[Willieboy]

Makes sense to me. What we have now is a battle over transfer payments.

If I'm not mistaken, many productive people are fleeing states like NY and California, and maybe Illinois and Massachusetts as well, to avoid excessive taxation.

[ltxi]

Your wife gets two votes Itxi.

My apologies, Bill, for pinging so hard off your initial post.

[Willieboy]

My apologies, Bill, for pinging so hard off your initial post.

No problem ltxi. I've been pinged by experts. Now your wife gets four votes and you get two.

[Zorn]

Do you guys actually believe the **** you're spouting in this thread? Only the right people should vote? Read some history. Take a look at the 1930's in particular.

[ltxi]

Do you guys actually believe the **** you're spouting in this thread? Only the right people should vote? Read some history. Take a look at the 1930's in particular.

Well, yeah, I believe it at it's core. The original question was should the ignorant be allowed to vote? The consensus appears to be we would all be best served if they didn't.

Today, every adult citizen of this country has the right to vote, as it should be. But we also have a duty to exercise that right in an informed and responsible manner. At least that's what I was taught and believe.

I also believe we've much lost the bubble on that basic "informed and responsible" precept and as a consequence our political system sinks to the lowest common denominator. We're unfortunately now getting what we collectively deserve.

[aray]

Speaking of ignorant voters you'll find the following two videos interesting.

1. Interviews of Obama voters the very day of the last presidential election. Their knowledge (or lack thereof) of government and of Obama himself was stunning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm1KOBMg1Y8

2. Interviews of female students at a women's school designated as a "Center of Excellence" by the Department of Education. They're asked to sign a petition "ending women's suffrage" (i.e. that would remove their right to vote!): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUP9Jm9SqvY

[aray]

In addition to the two above this is pretty funny too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RMK9zxb5HyE

[Willieboy]

These are really troubling videos Ray. The caller on Michael Savage's show should be pictured in the dictionary beside the words : "I know absolutely nothing and contribute nothing. Therefore, somebody else should be responsible for my support. Now, where's my ballot?"

[pappy42]

Ignorant folks already vote. The original framers off our Constitution had the right idea, you only voted if you were a landowner. I would expand that to those file a tax reurn and pay taxes.

If we don't get some logical reasoning into place: the idiots in DC will run us into the ground.

[aray]

Ignorant folks already vote. The original framers off our Constitution had the right idea, you only voted if you were a landowner. I would expand that to those file a tax reurn and pay taxes.

If we don't get some logical reasoning into place: the idiots in DC will run us into the ground.

Given that 49% of the households already don't pay federal income taxes ...

[steve666]

To answer the OP's question... Why not, they're allowed to get elected. Just look at all of the clowns in Congress.

[NewBlackDak]

Ignorant folks already vote. The original framers off our Constitution had the right idea, you only voted if you were a landowner. I would expand that to those file a tax reurn and pay taxes.

If we don't get some logical reasoning into place: the idiots in DC will run us into the ground.

How many of you actually "own" land, and you are not "renting to own" from a bank?

[mr surveyor]

we don't "rent to own from the bank". We borrow money from the bank at the current value of the property at time of closing, then pay a substantial amount in taxes directly to the local government.... with taxable value increasinig almost every year. Then when we have paid off the original loan (plus about 350% interest over the length of a 30 year mortgage), our property taxes have increased substantially.

[ltxi]

I completely agree with mr surveyor. Borrowing money to buy and "renting to own" are not the same concept, not at all.

That said, I count myself among the fortunate majority (yes, majority as I was surprised to discover) of homeowners who have no mortgage and own their homes outright. It appears we're also normally older and conservative, but no surprise there.

[jocko]

itxi: and wiser to.

[Dietrich]

There is nothing wrong with being ignorant.Ignorance is only a lack of information.Stupidity is a whole other ballgame.A case in point: A child reaches out and touches a hot stove.He is instantly bombarded with a plethora of information ,ridding him of his ignorance.If he reaches out and touches the stove again, he has drifted over into stupid.And we all know what Ron White has to say about that.


P.S. Ray,you sure know how to shake things up.I love it.

[jocko]

How about a stupid, ignorant person, u know like ac/dc. he can be both u know..

[aray]

Stoopid or ignert. Won't ask what category you think I fit into. :confused:

[ltxi]

Ah...ignorance normally complements stupidity as a consequence. But not the inverse. Ignorance is curable. Stupidity isn't.

And what's wrong with AC/DC? Even at my age I recognize it both as an acceptable concept and them as a great band. :cool:

[yqtszhj]

Here's a thought:
1. In order to be able to vote, everyone should have to pass what my wife did to become a citizen and EARN THE RIGHT TO VOTE. Had to know and be able to explain the 3 branches of government, what each one did, how the officials got their position, what the legnth of their term was, who was in office at the time, the bill of rights, the declairation of independance, mayor, governor, who wrote the national anthem, who was the first president, the first amendment, etc... Our high schools and colleges aren't cutting it.

2. have real term limits. Yes we get to vote the rascals out every few years but if the only choice is the old guy your tired of (and no one else in his party could win because they can't raise enough money) or a new someone that there is no way you would vote to let them in the office, who are you gonna vote for???

3. give the guys that get elected a bed in a dorm room that they all share together so that they realize they are there to work and serve the country and not live high on the hog. It works for the military. :80: Ooooo... what about Barney Frank. Could be a problem.

[ltxi]

As appealing as the idea may appear, poll tests were outlawed sometime back when I was a kid primarily because they were perceived of as/being used as a racial discriminator. Unfortunately, this was mostly true and that poisoned the basic concept forever.

[Willieboy]

give the guys that get elected a bed in a dorm room that they all share together so that they realize they are there to work and serve the country and not live high on the hog. It works for the military. :80: Ooooo... what about Barney Frank. Could be a problem.

Poor Barney the "Banking Queen".

I like the idea of the dorm and bunks. The job of Congressman and Senator is entirely too attractive. Eliminate the pensions and salaries and we'd have more statesmen and fewer politicians applying for the job.

[aray]

P.S. Ray,you sure know how to shake things up.I love it.

Thanks Dietrich! Coming from the Official Kahrtalk Pot Stirrer, I consider that quite a complement!