What prevents 'Slingshotting' Kahrs ?

[joe d]

I've slingshotted my new CM9 after the break in period a few times without a problem...I know that it isn't supposed to be done like this possibly causing unreliable feeding...My question is this...What is it that possibly prevents it from feeding correctly when slingshotting? Is it the mag itself,or the angle of the feed ramp ? Is there a technical answer to this?...I saw on youtube a guy using promags w/ his PM9 and he stated that solved the issue...Is that just youtube baloney...forgive the questions on this as I'm sure this has probably been discussed here before... I'm just trying to understand this function..

[jocko]

I've slingshotted my new CM9 after the break in period a few times without a problem...I know that it isn't supposed to be done like this possibly causing unreliable feeding...My question is this...What is it that possibly prevents it from feeding correctly when slingshotting? Is it the mag itself,or the angle of the feed ramp ? Is there a technical answer to this?...I saw on youtube a guy using promags w/ his PM9 and he stated that solved the issue...Is that just youtube baloney...forgive the questions on this as I'm sure this has probably been discussed here before... I'm just trying to understand this function..

nothing wrong in slingshooting the slide to load that first round or to do the tap, rack and bang thng. The reason kahr recommends using the slide lock lever to load that first round is that most will agree, kahrs are tight, kahrs have stiff recoil springs, that combination makes for many a harder time to sling shot a slide properly. Using the slide lock lever to load that first round releases that slidelock lever EVERY TIME with the same needed velocity to load that first round. If you can do it both ways with ease, go for it. Nothing wrong in that at all.

I at first had a hard time hand racking my PM9 but after the gun and I got to know each other better and the gun itself smoothed out, I can hand rack withy ease. I do it both ways. MyP380 was a real ***** for me to hand rack, I often complained about it evenon the P380 forum. but after awhile the gun smoothed out and I guess I got better at hand racking it to. For it works both ways perfectly now.

[jocko]

Might just be me but I think a captive dual spring recoil assembly makes a gun harder to hand rack and we seem to find that on smallass guns. kahrs have a good reputation of being tight and a tight gun over a sloppy gun is normally harder to hand rack.

[ripley16]

Maybe it also has to do with the short slide/strong recoil spring

That's how I see it too. Stating use of the release lever in the manual lowers the "human snafu failure rate". Not everyone, especially new shooters, are accustomed to aggressively racking the slide.

[kpm9]

My question is this...What is it that possibly prevents it from feeding correctly when slingshotting? .

Riding the slide.

I slingshot ALL my Kahrs without issue. Handle like a hammer (the tool it is) and it will work fine.

[OldLincoln]

I agree with all of the above, but have a different slant on the "why." If one can pull the slide ALL the way back AND release it cleanly from that point, it mimics the slide lock. So Kahr could have said learn to hand rack and it is okay. Problem is they are dealing with human nature.

The slide serrations are sharp and I for one found it difficult to let the slide loose while I had my skin folded over the razor edge. I wanted to relax my grip on the slide then let go, but that's a fail. The Kahr is a very short gun that needs all of the rack to compress the recoil spring enough to chamber the next round.

To do it right, you need to use an overhand grip on the slide at the rear serrations so that your hand pushes from the muzzle to the breach and squeeze it between the meaty part (heal?) of your thumb and fingers.

Now with a good grip, enthusiastically and with great vigor slam the slide back and concurrently push the gun forward toward the target. Your grip should still be on the slide when the motion rips your hand off it. Someone said your hand should be going for your armpit without pause. The pushing your gun toward the target while racking also gets it back on target faster for the next shot.

I'm not going to say it's impossible to pull the slide and release it from behind the gun, but unless you practice that and are proficient with it it is not recommended. The point is the slide has to be totally against the back stops when released. Many think it is but in fact ride the slide forward even a millimeter and blame the gun. It's not the gun but is the driver.

[jocko]

hand over the slide is the only way to rack a kahr and get away with it. Now my G19, is so easy I think I can grab it with my teeth and rack it, but fokk up with a kahr and it will bite u.. some guns arejust easier to rack PERIOD. Kahrs IMO are not one of them..

[Cornel]

FWIW, same thing with the CW45. Hard to slingshot at first, but then it is ok and now it is like any other of my pistols.

[CJB]

One thing not mentioned, is that there is precious little over-travel in the slide upon its rearward movement. It has "just enough" room to pickup that fresh round. So little room, there's that bevel on the breechface that allows things to slide forward when inserting a magazine on an open slide.

A full size 1911 has damn near a half inch of over-travel... which also translates to more cartridge rise time, and greater leeway in functioning. The Kahr PM45... has a few mm's of over-travel, and the timing of things is much more precise, with much less room for variance in slide movement.

[joe d]

great responses and info... I thank you all !

[Rainman48314]

Recognizing that a gunfight is extremely rare, and the need to load a new mag in the course of a gunfight, even more rare, it still seems a significant problem when all training teaches the slingshot. There's a lot of extra time to lock back the slide. I find that a mag needs to be inserted or its incredibily hard to catch the lock and keep it back.

If you get a stove pipe or a dead round in the middle of a fight, what are you supposed to do then? Are you seriously supposed to drop the mag, rack to remove the round, lock back, reload mag, and use the slide release???

[OldLincoln]

Rain, heaven forbid that it happens, but that's exactly what you are supposed to do if it does. If you are staring the BG in the eyeball you are in some serious stuff, but they don't always shoot straight either and the first hits may be survivable.

Of course if faced by 6 or 7 Fresno Policemen you are likely going to be okay. The last big shootout I read about they had a man with a pistol standing in his doorway and when he pointed it at them they poured something like 86 rounds and may have hit him once. They hit all over the front of his house, the house next door, and even a parked car. No they weren't 100 feet away, but within 20 yards. Point is you never give up in a gunfight. So practice the clearing drill.

[yqtszhj]

Riding the slide.

I slingshot ALL my Kahrs without issue. Handle like a hammer (the tool it is) and it will work fine.


Yep, what he said.

[PattayaPistol]

Since my PM9 got a couple of hundred rounds through it, it slingshots just fine. However due to arthritis and a badly healed broken finger I use the knuckles of my index and middle fingers to grip the slide rather than index and thumb. Works just fine.

Cheers
PP

[O'Dell]

I pretty much ignored Kahr's recommendation and hand racked all of mine, even during break in. I never had the first problem.

[jocko]

I think kahr puts that ih their manual for "newbies" more than anything. at least with a locked open slide and use the slide lock release it is releasing with the same needed velocity to load that first round. Kahrs are tight and many, myself included had difficulty at first with my pM9.

Probablyu eliminates alot of guns being sent back for ftf on the first round..

[TucsonMTB]

Probably eliminates alot of guns being sent back for ftf on the first round..
And, would be more effective if they described the process more clearly. :rolleyes:

Telling people to insert a loaded magazine before locking back the slide seems silly. Whatever . . . you already have much more experience helping new shooting customers get off on the right foot than most of the rest of us ever will have. Experience counts! :)

[Bawanna]

It's already been said more than once but my PM45 slingshoted just fine right out of the box. I think the slide lock lever is a good measure and I use it at the range or when loading after cleaning.
If I'm ever dodging bulets and running/ rolling for my life it will be slingshot all the way just like all my other guns.

Some new ones don't sling shot to easy but once they get broke in and if the owner practices doing it correctly and like also said work it like a tool with enthusiasm and let her rip they will all slingshot just fine.

This is one area where operator error is a big prominent factor.

[jocko]

I agree, it is confusi8ng t not state FIRST: lock the sldie back, now insert loaded magazine. now relesse witht he slide lock lever. course as u know they did not ask you and I how to write that text either. Thats why it is fokked up,,,,u think.

Course if I worte it, no one wouldbe able to read it..

[Bawanna]

I agree, it is confusi8ng t not state FIRST: lock the sldie back, now insert loaded magazine. now relesse witht he slide lock lever. course as u know they did not ask you and I how to write that text either. Thats why it is fokked up,,,,u think.

Course if I worte it, no one wouldbe able to read it..

And you want me to clean up my act? Your talking like my 3rd grade school teacher, the language for petes sack!

[TucsonMTB]

I agree, . . .course as u know they did not ask you and I how to write that text either. Thats why it is fokked up,,,,u think.

Course if I worte it, no one wouldbe able to read it..
Yeah, I think that's partly why it's "fokked up" too.

And, yes, when you are replying to posts from your iPhone or whatever, they are sometimes a little hard to read. But, when you are at the keyboard, they come through looking very professional. You would just have to dictate to a pretty young secretary or something. One of the few perks of the job, I'll bet. :)

[jocko]

oh my ur giving me to much damn credit. I can't post through a Iphone, don't own one of those complicated things, just a normal cell phone that talks back to me at times.

surely ur not calling my phrasieology "very proifessional". if so u do need some serious couch time. I try my best o post better but it just doesn't work out for me. I guess lazy is a good word, not acceptable to any I know but I am what I am andasI am sititng here at 2 a.m in the morning I amj asking myself what the fokk am I doing on a damn gun forum at this time...I have little hobbies,.

[CJB]

If you get a stove pipe or a dead round in the middle of a fight, what are you supposed to do then? Are you seriously supposed to drop the mag, rack to remove the round, lock back, reload mag, and use the slide release???

No, do like they do in the cowboy movies, and toss your gun back at the other guy, in hopes of tripping up his horse.

[CJB]

If hand racking / slingshotting the slide is oh so very bad, I guess I've committed some heinous and egregious transgression by letting the slide go home on a chambered round.

Its hard on the extractor, but its also something that "may" have to happen should things get very dire, so I wanted to see just exactly what _would_ happen in that instance. Nothing special. The slide closed, and I shot a magazine full downrange.... although ever since then I've got some pain in my left little toe.

[RUT]

I pretty much ignored Kahr's recommendation and hand racked all of mine, even during break in. I never had the first problem.

Ditto that. Never had a problem with sling shotting when done properly. (the operative word being properly)