Disgusted with new CW45

[TheTman]

I have never been so disappointed in a gun in all my life as I am with this CW45, :32: I finally got around to getting the first 200 or so shots thru it.
The good news: It shoots straight. That's all the good I can say about it. The bad news is that it is one horribly unreliable piece of crap.
I did not get through ONE freakin magazine without a failure of some sort. I finally gave up on the 7 round mag for now and used my two 6 round mags.
I used WWB round nose FMJ for break in. I encountered one thing I haven't read about before, the slide would go back into battery ready to fire, (or so I thought, I did try and push the slide in a few times and it was in as far as it would go), and I'd pull the trigger and nothing. No click, no noise of any type. So I would do a press check far enough to reset the trigger, and it would go bang. After doing this repeatedly, I decided to see what would happen if I just kept pulling the trigger, and sometimes after the 3rd or 4th trigger pull it would go bang. I've not heard of this before. This happened at least once every mag, and often a couple times on one mag. It had repeated failures to feed, maybe that is my fault, I didn't polish the feed ramp. Also the slide often would not lock back on the last round, the take down lever worked it's way out to maybe 1/8th of an inch or so sometimes, and other times it just didn't lock back. That happened repeatedly also. I have seen a thread on the take down lever working it's way loose am going to look it up after I beetch a little more. I was so disgusted with the gun after 200 rounds, well more like 194 after I threw away some mangled cartridges, that I didn't even try any SD ammo.
Right now I'm ready to take this gun and shove it up a certain gun makers ass as far as I can shove it. What really pisses me off, is I took the time to do Jocko's prep, lube it up well, and rack the slide hundreds of times. And it performed worse than my CW40 did without any prep at all. I guess no good deed goes unpunished.
I have to tell you though, If this had been my first experience with a Kahr, I'd sell it in a hurry and hope to never hear about Kahr again. As it is, I'll have to think a long time before I buy another one. Things never got any better as I came closer to the 200 round mark, same things kept happening over and over and over and over.
I made real damn sure I wasn't limp wristing it, or anything else that would make it not function. The CW40 ran perfectly after I put the .45 away, even with my arms getting tired. Now I have a country music song running thru my head, "Take this gun and shove it..... I ain't shooting it no more". Bear with me please, trying to maintain some of my sense of humour thru all this mess. I'm not sure what to do with the damn thing now. Is there anything I can do? Does it need to go straight back to the mothership before I go fooling with things? Any ideas?

Well, at least the CT laser was fun. It got kind of embarrasing though the madder I got the more the little red dot bounced around the target. Should have covered up the lens I guess.

It's making me wonder if Jet Guns didn't clean up someone else's problem child and sell it as new. I guess Kahr would now if it'd been registered for warranty before. Maybe that's why I got it so cheap. Crap, I shouldn't go dragging a gun dealers name thru the mud unless I have proof they did something wrong. I'm just way pissed off.

WHEN it DID shoot, it shot pretty well.
These targets are from the 7 yard mark, in the order I shot them. I was getting pretty agitated by the 2nd and 3rd targets. The targets are 12" wide and 18" tall.
http://graphics.pccomps.com/targets.jpg

[Bawanna]

Deep breathing, happy thoughts thetmanski. Distance yourself from that CW for awhile. Sounds like you got a bad trigger bar for sure, thats why it's not resetting like it should.

You did your best to get the 200 down, it's not better and getting worse. Back to the mothership she goes.

Document everything you experienced just as clearly as you can. I think alot of issues are missed due to miscomunication between the owner and the smiths at kahr.

Send the mags that don't lock the slide back with it, send it in the original box if you still have it. Give the Kahr folks a chance to fix that evil reject.

If it comes back still bad I'll help you think up new swear words and we'll ridicule everyone east of the Mississippi and everyone north of the mason dixon line as norther aggressors.

We're with ya here, we want this CW to run for you as much as you do.
Don't give up. It's sad, it's wrong, its a travesty to get past QC but lets give em a chance.

[CJB]

Easy one's first - failure to feed and failure to eject, to be expected during break in.

Next - failure to fire, to me sounds like dirt or debris in the striker channel. I suggest removing all the top end components (there's a breakdown for it on the forum) cleaning well, and trying again. If that doesn't do it, call Kahr, who I'm sure will send a label so you can send it back for service.

[2edgesword]

I don't have any answers for you but appreciate your feelings of frustration. My CW45 had some relatively minor issues during the first 200 rounds, one fail to fire that I attribute to a bad primer and one failure to go into battery which I also suspect was cause by the cheap ammo I used. The other issue was a guide rod that was not properly beveled making it very difficult to insert during reassembly after cleaning.

I'd also add that In my opinion any prepping beyond a basic clean and lube prior to having a firearm that is fully functional out of the box is a failure on the part of the manufacturer.

[CJB]

My bad - no click on trigger pull... yes, trigger bar not quite as it should be.

Just call Kahr and they'll do the rest.

[gb6491]

...I encountered one thing I haven't read about before, the slide would go back into battery ready to fire, (or so I thought, I did try and push the slide in a few times and it was in as far as it would go), and I'd pull the trigger and nothing. No click, no noise of any type. So I would do a press check far enough to reset the trigger, and it would go bang. After doing this repeatedly, I decided to see what would happen if I just kept pulling the trigger, and sometimes after the 3rd or 4th trigger pull it would go bang. I've not heard of this before.

...It had repeated failures to feed, maybe that is my fault, I didn't polish the feed ramp.


...Also the slide often would not lock back on the last round, the take down lever worked it's way out to maybe 1/8th of an inch or so sometimes, and other times it just didn't lock back. That happened repeatedly also. I have seen a thread on the take down lever working it's way loose am going to look it up after

The failure to fire issue could be a myriad of things.
I think this especially true as you can get it to fire by repeated pulls on the trigger. This suggests to me that the trigger is reset, but
1. The cocking cam is not rotating enough to release the striker (bad trigger bar or cocking cam). It also occurs to me that the striker block could impede the travel of the cocking cam (check that block depresses fully and moves freely). Does the trigger seem to have more travel when it does fire?
2. The cocking cam is functioning properly, but the striker still needs more travel from it to release (bad striker, slide or frame).
Of those above, about the only one you can check is the striker. Look for any damage or burrs on it where it engages the cocking cam. I guess it wouldn't hurt to check the cocking cam lobes as well (neither would dis-assembly and cleaning of the slide if you haven't already done so).

Failure to feed: never discount a bad magazine. Could you be more specific in what the failure is (three point jam, bottom of feed ramp, etc.)?

Here's the link to the slide stop issue:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=15672#post15672
Perhaps fixing this will also affect the other issues.

Regards,
Greg

[Fedor]

my wife & I have put 50 rounds through ours with no problems, hope things get better for you.

[TheTman]

Thanks guys,
I think I'm gonna ship it back to the factory. I didn't make the thing, I didn't break anything, and I'm not going to be the one to fix it (I Hope).

The jams really didn't bother me so much as the trigger not setting the gun off, never ran into that before and it just flustered the hell out of me. The jams I recall the bullet tips were were jammed into the top of the barrel opening. I could have lived with the jams, it being a new gun and all. The other deal with the trigger just had me so discombobulated I kind of lost track of the other problems.
Well I think I've calmed down to where I can call Kahr and have a resonable discussion, anger has turned to a mild depression. Don't you just hate when new toys don't work? This whole episode is making me rethink Kahr quality control, or lack thereof. What with the troubles the .380's have, and this thing. And the numerous other problems on the forum. I'm not sure I can ethically recommend one to my friend that liked my CW40 now and wanted one. I bet when he hears about this he won't want one anyway.
I'm startin to feel like somehow I've wandered on to the Kel Tec forum. LOL
I've just never had a gun behave so badly before, and it's really shaken my confidence in Kahr. Maybe if I could have gotten just ONE mag's worth of bullets to run ok I might feel a little better. But NO, the freakin gun wouldn't even give me that.
Ok, there's my morning rant. Needed to get that out of my system. Going to call Kahr in a few. Better wait for my blood pressure med to kick in so I don't blow a gasket.

[jocko]

gun is out of time and there is nothing you can do for it. Kahr must fix it. Insist and be nice though that they pay to pick up the gun. document everything you have done etc so the techs can start somewhere instead of guessing. Light strikes are an out of time gun and again most culpirts are a out of spec trigger bar, but I have seen totally new slides replaced also,. Kahr can just sit there and replace parts until it works, we can't. You know from readig many posts the cw series is a really reliable gun, you just got a lemon.Let um fix it and when it comes back and all is OK you will forget soon of this inconvenience..

[Fedor]

After all the problems I have been reading about on this forum, if our Kahrs start acting up they will be gone like a fart in the wind.

[jreXD9]

wow, I hate that for some of ya'll. my pm9, cw9 and cw45 run like a sewing machine. alas, I DID sell the cw45 cuz I caught the 1911 bug.....a Kimber Compact Stainless II took the place of the cw45.

[TheTman]

They agreed to ship it back on their dime. You know I really want this gun to work out, but I'll trade it in a heartbeat (with documentation of it's problems) if they don't get it right.
I better lay low as I don't have anything nice to say right now.
What gets me is another Tupperware gun maker, seems to get their guns right the first time, without all this fussing around, and 200 shot break in and crap. What is up with Kahr, and particularly their .380's?
They must not test guns more than a shot or two at the factory, as I didn't even make it thru the first mag without that trigger issue coming up.
I'll catch you all later when/if I feel more upbeat about Kahr.
Now I feel like I better go run another couple hundred rounds through my .40, make sure it didn't catch anything from the .45 while they were stored together.

[Fedor]

They agreed to ship it back on their dime. You know I really want this gun to work out, but I'll trade it in a heartbeat (with documentation of it's problems) if they don't get it right.
I better lay low as I don't have anything nice to say right now.
What gets me is another Tupperware gun maker, seems to get their guns right the first time, without all this fussing around, and 200 shot break in and crap. What is up with Kahr, and particularly their .380's?
They must not test guns more than a shot or two at the factory, as I didn't even make it thru the first mag without that trigger issue coming up.
I'll catch you all later when/if I feel more upbeat about Kahr.
Now I feel like I better go run another couple hundred rounds through my .40, make sure it didn't catch anything from the .45 while they were stored together.

Glock perhaps ?? I have owned quite a few Glocks and they were (are) all totally flawless without doing a "clean & prep" or any kind of break in.

[TheTman]

Bingo!

[Bawanna]

Bingo!

You can get one of those but you might want to hang out with us over here anyhow. I've never been there but I've heard they can be pretty ruthless on their forum.

I got one and they still let me hang out here so your ok, you know?

[jocko]

someone today posed and I can't find it a very nice article on the G19'
s owned by the NYPD. I love mine and it shoots in the same hole. It had to go back once for slide lock issues but as good as they are glocks gave issues, glocks (some) still give issues. glock has many many many internall changes over the years, has to be a reason. My point is,glocks are great guns but don't fool yourself into a false sense of security either. Indians State Police bought over 1200 G22 a few years back and had so many issues that finally glock had tocome in and take um all back and reissued G17 which they carry and love today. Illinois State boys had the same exact issue and now carry G17.

I feel ur pain thetmanski, not much I or anyone can do for you here either. I have always been an advocate of, that if you love the gun, give it one time back to the factory to get right and then after that PEDDLE it . To many good "other" guns out there than to let one model fokk with your mind.

[TheTman]

Thanks Bawanna and Jocko, and everyone.
Jocko, you're right, no gun maker is perfect, and I'm sure Glocks have their fair share of problems. I never really was into Glocks, they just don't appeal to me. I really liked the Kahr's CW series, they just seem to fit my hand so well and are affordable for me. In my problem description, I asked them to put a bevel on my guide rod so it will be easier to assemble, think that will get done? I'm betting against it.

Don't mind me, I'm just pitchin a hissy fit. I had such high expectations for the gun after doing the prep and lube and hand racking so many times, I just figured the break-in would be a breeze, so that was a lot of my frustration. Plus that trigger deal was unlike anything I'v ever encountered, so it had me really flustered.
Now Kahr got my street name wrong on the shipping label, so I have to wait until Monday when they're open to get that straightened out. Jeez. What a freaking bunch of crap. I even spelled the street name out to the the "bloke" who took my call, guess he wrote it down wrong. Otherwise I probably could have had it at Fed Ex by this evening's cut off time. It's cold and rainy here so I don't even feel like hitting the road on the scooter and leaving my cares behind. A good dash down the interstate at 85-90mph does wonders for my attitude. I bet Jocko nows the feeling.
Thanks for all your kind words everyone. Time to get off the pity pot and do something constructive. (or destructive, muhahahahaha)

[2edgesword]

They must not test guns more than a shot or two at the factory, as I didn't even make it thru the first mag without that trigger issue coming up.

I would be very interested in knowing the extent of functionality test conducted before a firearm leaves the factory. The idea that you have to cycle the slide hundreds of times, buff the feed ramp, etc. before the firearm is 99% reliable is unacceptable in my opinion.

[jocko]

A good dash down the interstate at 85-90mph does wonders for my attitude. I bet Jocko nows the feeling


Harleys just don't go that fast, !!!!!!

[Cornel]

WOW!! I'm not sure what to tell you.

My CW45 worked really well for the firsts 250 rds, then the slide stop started coming out, as yours, about 1/8" and that's when my CW45 started to produce some stovepipes and some slide failure to return to battery. That's when I pulled the trigger and didn't go bang. Then I tighted up the slide stop spring screw and the gun ran perfectly for another 55 rds until the same problems started to happen again. Really frustrating.

I sent an e-mail to Kahr and they sent me a new slide stop spring. After the installation the slide stop was as hard as to when brand new. I still need to go and run another 100 rds to see how this new spring "resolved" the problem.

To me a number of Kahr pistols are having too many issues with this slide stop or the slide stop spring or the slide stop spring screw getting loose.

I, like you, like my Kahr a lot. Really a nice grip that makes me shoot it well and therefore made it my first ccw choice. After this I'm not sure if it'll continue to be.

I may have to go back to another of my plastic guns that runs darn well... my XDM or glock.

I guess we'll find out.

[fleegs]

Fell your pain.My pm45 is a piece of crap and on its way back to the mother ship.I am hoping its a lemon as i will give kahr one more chance.My 600 rounds thru my pm45 was more than i should have put thru it.You should not have to tweek shi-t on your cw45 and if its new you are doing the right thing sending it back.The people on these forum know there sh-t about kahrs but seem to be more understanding than i.Good luck!

[Fedor]

Wow, it's sounding more and more like I made a bad choice buying a pair of CW45's. :(

[TheTman]

LOL Jocko, I know you'll top 100 easy on that machine of yours. I can get mine up there, but it's not very comfortable, being a hard mounted engine on a softail frame.

Cornel, wow. Ain't that some B.S. with that slide stop spring.
I agree with what you say about the quality. These pistols are supposed to be so good, but why to we have such problems with them? I had to look up at the top to make sure I wasn't on the Kel-Tec site, LOL.

I think the thing is, they feel so damn good in our hand, that we are willing to put up with a little more crap than normal from a gun, and there just isn't anything out there that I want to carry that is anywhere near how thin the Kahr is. They are a great gun when they are working properly, but a great gun shouldn't require new parts after 250 rounds. And certainly not after just leaving the factory. (if that is indeed my case, still not sure I didn't get a slightly used gun). I was just thinking, I remember having a much harder time removing the slide stop lever on my CW40 than on the .45. I practicly had to knock it out with a hammer on the CW40, but it just required a light press and just pulled it easily out the other side on the .45.
I don't care if my problem is the slide stop spring or what, I want them to go over it again, in case it is the trigger bar or related parts, or something else.
I'd love to know the ratio of good guns Kahr sells to ones that need some repair within a year. Of course we are going to hear more about the guns that are acting up than the thousands of people that have no problem with them and happily shoot away, or else fire a few trouble free rounds thru them and call it good. At least we do get good reports here along with the bad.
I will admit, this site almost scared me off buying a Kahr, but I also read posts from some pretty dedicated Kahr followers, saying yeah, they may need a little work, but they're worth it, so I gave it a try. The Kel-Tec forum totally scared me off those guns. Plus I really wanted a .40 and not a 9, but I'd carry one if I needed too. I got a chance to hold a PF9 up against a CW40 and CW9, and to me, the CW's seemed to have a better quality than the PF9. Nothing real specific, just overall fit and finish. There may be a 9 in my future, I'm looking at a couple smaller 9's for summer. One WAS the CM9, that may get scratched off the list depending on how my current situation gets resolved. LC9 is another one. Another one isn't even on the market yet but looks very promising. Just want something small and concealable under a t-shirt, or will fit in a pocket holster.
I do hope your Kahr works out for you so you don't have to go back to those fat a$$ guns.
Fleegs, sorry your's is giving you problems. Hope they make it right for you.
Fedor, give em a chance. They're probably ok. They've got to make a large number of trouble free guns, or else they'd be out of business.
Have a good weekend everyone.

[Cornel]

Hahaha!! It may be too late for the CM9 for me since I got one THIS WEEK!!! LOL :(

Hopefully these problems are rare in the PM9 and, therefore, the new CM9. On this one the slide stop is very tight and very hard to take out and put in. And because is a slimmer gun the slide stop tip protrudes more on the other side of the frame. Perhaps this little difference will make less likely for the slide stop to come out of its locked position. Also the slide stop spring is longer at the straight end that locks the slide stop "hook/latch" in place.

About the other plastics coming 'close' in thinness could be the XD9sc or the G36, very concealable and reliable pieces.

Anyway, maybe we need to make a video instead writing in the forum, like this guy did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T710Z2-udJ0&NR=1

[CJB]

Ya know... I sit here, read all this and smile a little.

A lot of disappointment rises to the surface, and below are countless satisfied customers. Yah, only takes a few to make things seem bad, dire even.

So, someplace upward of 10's of thousands of sales annually, almost wholly satisfied customers. Pretty much the same for my own industry, except the numbers are 100 times bigger as far as units (industrial product) sold.

[TheTman]

I didn't mean for this to turn into a bash Kahr thread. I was just bitterly disappointed in my gun and I guess it struck a chord with some people.
I'm sure the majority of their guns work fine. I wouldnt think they'd be in business long if they didn't. I'm pretty confident Kahr will make things right. It's the same feeling as if you bought a new car or bike, and tried to drive it somewhere, and it died on you every couple of miles, then had to go back to the dealer for a couple weeks. I'm sure you'd be bummed out.

[joe d]

I'm startin to feel like somehow I've wandered on to the Kel Tec forum. LOL

That's funny :D...sad,true,but still funny...Actually,I own a PF9 that's been flawless...I just replaced it w/ a new CM9 which so far has been flawless as well...Hope they get it sorted out for ya...

[jocko]

Hahaha!! It may be too late for the CM9 for me since I got one THIS WEEK!!! LOL :(

Hopefully these problems are rare in the PM9 and, therefore, the new CM9. On this one the slide stop is very tight and very hard to take out and put in. And because is a slimmer gun the slide stop tip protrudes more on the other side of the frame. Perhaps this little difference will make less likely for the slide stop to come out of its locked position. Also the slide stop spring is longer at the straight end that locks the slide stop "hook/latch" in place.

About the other plastics coming 'close' in thinness could be the XD9sc or the G36, very concealable and reliable pieces.

Anyway, maybe we need to make a video instead writing in the forum, like this guy did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T710Z2-udJ0&NR=1

will loosen up a tad but notmuch, u don't wantit creeping out either. accept that as a safety isdeue more than an inconveniencje. I also on my right side of mY PM9 I modified that pin sticking out and madeit flush fitting . Looks like aht trigger pin basically. U can pull that phot up on jocko's custm PM9 and see how it looks. I am still able to get my sflie stop lever out but I just use alittle small ass screwdriver and pop it loose from the left side.. a tadf of grease on that back sid eof the slide stop spring where the lever goes into the frame helps it slide past easier...

[Cornel]

I didn't mean for this to turn into a bash Kahr thread. I was just bitterly disappointed in my gun and I guess it struck a chord with some people.
I'm sure the majority of their guns work fine. I wouldnt think they'd be in business long if they didn't. I'm pretty confident Kahr will make things right. It's the same feeling as if you bought a new car or bike, and tried to drive it somewhere, and it died on you every couple of miles, then had to go back to the dealer for a couple weeks. I'm sure you'd be bummed out.

Indeed that's my very same feeling without a doubt.

It's just that we really like the handgun so much that is very frustrating when things like these happen, especially when you want ours Kahr pistols (that are made) to be used primarily for CCW for self defense. Also when a great number of CCW carriers have had other handguns to compare with and nonetheless many of us end up here with Kahr pistols!!... this fact should say a lot (of good things) about Kahr.

Anyway, if anyone has any idea about how eliminate or at least decrease any of these issues, please let us know so we can keep and trust ours Kahrs.

Can I get an AMEN!!!:behindsofa:

[Cornel]

Hi jocko!! I will certainly shoot my brand new CM9 and, as you say, shoot it like I stole it!!!

BTW... let me take the time to say a BIG THANKS!!! to you and to the many other of the "old timers" in this forum for all the great advise and knowledge you all bring to us, the new Kahr pistol owners. It is thanks to all of your comments that I decided to get my CW45.

I will look up for your posts for the keeping and fixing of what we all have alike in this forum.

[Fedor]

I'm ready to unload both CW45s, I have no patience for this kind of nonsense.

[gb6491]

I'm ready to unload both CW45s, I have no patience for this kind of nonsense.
What nonsense? Didn't you recently post a range report that your wife and you "both ran 50 rounds through our new CW45's with zero FTF's or FTE's."?
Has something changed with your pistols since then?
Regards,
Greg

[fleegs]

Hey fedor i am going thru the same issues with my pm45 and all the members have been very receptive untill CJB wanted to throw a little smack(probably the alcohol talking)I was told i was paronoid because i am feeling the same way that you are.I spent $906 on a pm45 and vented my frusrations and granted i used a few words i could have left out.BUT not being paranoid about 450 out 600 jamming or not ejecting is fooken stupid.I did not want to bring up this point yet out of respect to the members and to kahr(one more chance) the gun smith at the gun shop i bought my pm45 at said he would NEVER buy a kahr larger than a 9mm with a polymer base because he personally feels they dont have it down pat yet.I asked him than why would you sell one to me.??This is my PARANOID DELEMA.If kahr is going to replace my pm45 with a new one which they should do i have the gun shop put this new pm45 on the shelf and i pick another brand???? I wont make this decision untill it comes back.I informed the owner that he and i would become very close if i would shoot the 200 rounds thru it and have problems.Please remember that most folks on this forum are hoping people like you and i get satisfaction.It is getting old the saying all guns have issues.Iam for now keeping a open mind.Good luck to you and hope one way or another your carry piece is reliable.

[Fedor]

What nonsense? Didn't you recently post a range report that your wife and you "both ran 50 rounds through our new CW45's with zero FTF's or FTE's."?
Has something changed with your pistols since then?
Regards,
Greg

It's a matter of Trust. I'm not sure I trust them for concealed carry now.
Too much negative stuff about them.

[fleegs]

Fedor i can not trust my pm45 yet and on the fence.It does seem like a very select few dont like the airing out of problems with the kahr line.Let me give you my opinion.If you dont trust it and you have given it the opertunity than dump it.I could give a rats ass what the very select few think as they are probably on the payroll anyway.I will give kahr one more chance to convince me(no one else) that my pistol is reliable and i can carry this with 100 confidence or i will dump it and take the loss,Ultimatly it will be there loss.Good luck.

[Bawanna]

Thats a sad post right there. Myself and most of I assume the select few would completely endorse your dumping your Kahr or any other gun that you don't have faith in or confidence.

I can't speak for others but I can assure you I'm not on the payroll.

We certainly don't have an issues discussing legitimate issues or problems with Kahrs or any other firearm here.

We hear alot of bad stories here, perhaps more bad than good mostly because owners seek out this place looking for answers. Usually either thru help here or a trip back to Kahr things get on track.

Many here have sent guns back numerous times. Wyn comes to mind.

I thought them CW's were running fine Fedor, I hope your not letting negative stories effect your judgement but again if your confidence it gone, dump em and move on.

[gb6491]

Fedor i can not trust my pm45 yet and on the fence.It does seem like a very select few dont like the airing out of problems with the kahr line.Let me give you my opinion.If you dont trust it and you have given it the opertunity than dump it.I could give a rats ass what the very select few think as they are probably on the payroll anyway.I will give kahr one more chance to convince me(no one else) that my pistol is reliable and i can carry this with 100 confidence or i will dump it and take the loss,Ultimatly it will be there loss.Good luck.
As I'm the one who questioned Fedor in regards to why he was considering dumping his reliable pistols (as per his posts), is the above directed at me?

[TheTman]

Fedor, I think you may want to reconsider dumping your .45's. It seems like you had a great range report with zero problems. I'd keep running those guns and see if anything developed. I bet they run fine with the great start you had.
Right now there are a lot of negative stories from unhappy customers. Other times the pages are full of good range reports and friendly banter, with a problem here and there.
What you are not hearing is all the people happy with their choice and not having problems. How could a company stay in business if all it turned out was junk? Your pistols seem to be running well, I'd keep feeding them ammo and see if anything develops, and consider them good unless something does happen. There has to be thousands of happy Kahr owners out there who have no problems with their gun and probably don't even know this forum exists. We tend to seek out these places and post more when we have problems seeking advice, and not just come in and say "Hi. I'm Tom, and I'm so happy with my pistol I just wanted to say it on a forum" so of course we are going to see a lot of problems. Some problems do cause people to decide to move on to other brands. I will too if I lose faith in Kahr products.
I think we expect so much out of them that they really let us down when they do act up. Sometimes things get out of whack and need to be tuned up some. Even a good old 1911 needs some loving care now and then. Every maker has it's problem childs. You can look up any manufacturer and find stories that would make you avoid that brand.
I was very disgusted with my CW45 when I wrote the original post to this thread, but I've had time to think and I just had such high expectations for the gun that I was really pissed when it acted up so much. I'm not going to run out and sell my CW40 because my CW45 has problems. The .40 has earned my trust and it's place in my carry rotation, and I've ran quite a bit of ammo thru it that I wouldn't want to have wasted all those bullets. I sure wouldn't sell a gun or guns I had good luck with because some other guy had problems with his. What would you replace it with? There are few guns out there in .45 that have the features that Kahr does in as compact a package. You get a lot of gun for the price in the CW line. I'm just saying I'd have a hard time parting with a Kahr that has been good to me, because some other guys were having problems with theirs. It's too bad we can't find some survey or something to show how many are happily shooting away and have no idea this forum exists, versus those relativite few of us really having a bad time and post it in the forum. There must be thousands of happy Kahr owners out there, or there would be no Kahr to ***** about. I just had such a weird problem with that trigger not resetting that it really flustered me bad. I had not heard of this happening with anyone else, so I was totally unprepared for it. I was expecting maybe a few FTE's of FTF's or other jams, but that deal with the trigger made me blow a gasket or something. I'll give Kahr a chance to make it right, if it does, fine, if not, then the pistol is history. It will be hard to sell like that, maybe the dealer will exchange it for something. I doubt if anyone would want to buy something like that. It may just end up in the junk drawer. Sell it by pieces or something.
Anyway, Fedor, don't let all this talk make you do something you don't really need too.

[Fedor]

I'm going to give them a fair chance, but at the first sign of any problems they will be traded away.

[Zunkted]

!!!

[jocko]

Thats a sad post right there. Myself and most of I assume the select few would completely endorse your dumping your Kahr or any other gun that you don't have faith in or confidence.

I can't speak for others but I can assure you I'm not on the payroll.

We certainly don't have an issues discussing legitimate issues or problems with Kahrs or any other firearm here.

We hear alot of bad stories here, perhaps more bad than good mostly because owners seek out this place looking for answers. Usually either thru help here or a trip back to Kahr things get on track.

Many here have sent guns back numerous times. Wyn comes to mind.

I thought them CW's were running fine Fedor, I hope your not letting negative stories effect your judgement but again if your confidence it gone, dump em and move on.

not a sad post bawanna. Stupid one maybe but not sad. When people put that crapola in a post to me they loose all credability and are really just wanting to start an issue. again ur to kind:photo:

[500KV]

I'm ready to unload both CW45s, I have no patience for this kind of nonsense.

That really seems strange to me.
Because someone has a problem with a PM45 your considering dumping two perfectly reliable CW's ???
Or did I misunderstand ?
Not trying to be a SA, just trying to understand your reasoning.

[jocko]

That really seems strange to me.
Because someone has a problem with a PM45 your considering dumping two perfectly reliable CW's ???
Or did I misunderstand ?
Not trying to be a SA, just trying to understand your reasoning.

its a strange person posting. He is not trying help, he is just wanting to stir the pot. When you make a statement like he made it kinda shows to me the character of the person.

ur to kind .:rolleyes:

[TheTman]

Those with pistols running well, should hang on to them. I still believe in these guns, I just got a bad one is the way I look at it.
If you've lost faith in Kahr then move on. But do it because YOUR gun was acting up, not mine or fleegs. Things happen to all makes of guns. Maybe Kahr does have some quality control issues, the p380 comes to mind, but no gun maker gets them all perfect. Fleegs and I, and some others will see if the Kahr service department is worth a damn or not, and I'm sure we'll let you all know our experiences.
They seem to have done well in the past for people, And I'm betting they make our guns right.
I'm still carrying my CW40 as my main carry piece. It functioned once again at 100 percent the other day when I was having so many problems with the .45.

I don't know that there is any more that needs to be said here, perhaps the thread should be closed before it gets out of hand. I'll leave that up to Bawanna.
Just don't let my bad experience, or fleeg's or anyone elses, turn you off a well running gun.

[Bawanna]

We've approached ugly here but seem to pop back to civil discussion. I'm really trying to get people to like me here so I'm really reluctant to pull plugs.

I'm watching though. If ugly rears its Ugly (duh) head. We'll drain the bathtub.

[jlottmc]

Look, not to rub too much salt in, I have a P45 that I bought used, and the wife has a CW45 that was bought new. Both have been 100% when I didn't do something like put the slide stop in until the spring caught. I take a lot of heat here and elsewhere because I have a couple of Taurus guns that I carry as well. Thing is, I've heard the horror stories, and mine have been boring in their reliability, accurate too. I shoot all my guns plenty, and inspect when I clean, that way I solve issues before they become issues. I also function check everytime I pull one apart. If you really want to unload those 45's send them my way, and move on. Do it just because you can't make up your own mind from an internet forum. The others have stated quite well what happens with internet forums. I say peddle them and move on, but I for one am staying right here and happy with my guns.

[jocko]

We've approached ugly here but seem to pop back to civil discussion. I'm really trying to get people to like me here so I'm really reluctant to pull plugs.

I'm watching though. If ugly rears its Ugly (duh) head. We'll drain the bathtub.

a mirror bawanna, now that is ugly, don't pull ur own plug!!!:cheer2: I've said my peace, I will just read and watch, really no one is forcing anyone to buy, sell, trade, pitch, peddle, barter. when someone throws a stick of dynamit i the water expect an explosian. Everyone here is just voicing their opinions:cheer2:

[TheTman]

Jlottmc, we need to hear more stories like your experiences with your .45's. Glad yours run trouble free. I suspect at least 95% of the guns have no problems. Probably more. As I said earlier, it would be interesting to see what percentage of guns have to go back to the mothership. I bet it's under 5. If it was too many you'd think we'd see some radical design changes or something.
I just had a bad day Friday. I have some things going on in my personal life that are stressing me out, so I thought a couple hours at the gun range would do my attitude wonders, and get to try out that laser (that part was still fun), and figured my CW45 was all ready to go, and was really ready for a good time, but it was not to be, so instead of coming home in a better mood, I was really ready to rip someone a new one, and maybe I went a little overboard on my original post on this thread. I really don't think Kahr guns are crap, I am still carrying my CW40 almost daily, if I'm going to be out of the house more than a half hour or so, it goes along.
I still may give the CM9 a chance at being my summer gun. Probably see if I can work something out with a LGS that they'll take it back if it gives me too much trouble, and let them deal with Kahr.
Bawanna, thanks for your watchful eye. I really didn't want something I started to turn ugly, and was leery it was headed that direction.

[Bawanna]

No worries. I took Jocko's advise and looked in the mirror. WTF! I've lost a tiny bit of my above average good looks. Where did they go?

I'm not ready to pull my own plug, well maybe a little but I fear my chick magnet days are on the wane.

[OldLincoln]

As an old guy around here it seems I've spent a chunk of my life fixing things that were supposed to be good from the factory, or seller claims. I guess it boils down to expectations followed either by joy or disappointment. But then I'm not one to complain when my soup isn't very hot either. It's all part of life and perspective.

What I've seen quit a bit of here are initial quality issues that mostly are resolved if one has the time and patience. I agree every Kahr should come off the line perfect and remain perfect, but what the heck, it just isn't going to happen. Our CEO, Johnh, is close to Kahr management and he was told that Kahr has less than .05 return rate. That includes minor as well as major stuff.

I have bought a few new cars in my days and in every case have been told to expect some minor issues and just bring it in for service and they will take care of them. I've also bought a couple new homes and was told that I'd discover things and just make a list so they can fix them. In the Air Force I took delivery of a brand new Boeing KC-135 and it had initial problems. Brand new ships go on a shake down cruise to find problems. Why wouldn't a gun be the same way. In case you think other brands don't have problems, you just haven't really looked into them.

So, I do understand the concerns about trusting it, etc. and tell you that you definitely should NOT trust it until you prove it to yourself. The last thing you want is to be concerned about you gun at the moment it is needed. So, go ahead, get it fixed and shoot it like you stole it until you can shoot a couple hundred or more rounds without a hiccup. When YOU are willing to bet your life on it, then do so.

If you are an instant gratification type person and yours has a problem, recognize that it may be a great gun someday but you aren't willing to put up with that and get rid of it and move on. It gets tougher when your brand new Dan Wesson or Les Baer, Kimber, Dan Brown, etc, has similar problems. Again, some do, most don't. As my son says... "Get over it."

[jlottmc]

As an old guy around here it seems I've spent a chunk of my life fixing things that were supposed to be good from the factory, or seller claims. I guess it boils down to expectations followed either by joy or disappointment. But then I'm not one to complain when my soup isn't very hot either. It's all part of life and perspective.

What I've seen quit a bit of here are initial quality issues that mostly are resolved if one has the time and patience. I agree every Kahr should come off the line perfect and remain perfect, but what the heck, it just isn't going to happen. Our CEO, Johnh, is close to Kahr management and he was told that Kahr has less than .05 return rate. That includes minor as well as major stuff.

I have bought a few new cars in my days and in every case have been told to expect some minor issues and just bring it in for service and they will take care of them. I've also bought a couple new homes and was told that I'd discover things and just make a list so they can fix them. In the Air Force I took delivery of a brand new Boeing KC-135 and it had initial problems. Brand new ships go on a shake down cruise to find problems. Why wouldn't a gun be the same way. In case you think other brands don't have problems, you just haven't really looked into them.

So, I do understand the concerns about trusting it, etc. and tell you that you definitely should NOT trust it until you prove it to yourself. The last thing you want is to be concerned about you gun at the moment it is needed. So, go ahead, get it fixed and shoot it like you stole it until you can shoot a couple hundred or more rounds without a hiccup. When YOU are willing to bet your life on it, then do so.

If you are an instant gratification type person and yours has a problem, recognize that it may be a great gun someday but you aren't willing to put up with that and get rid of it and move on. It gets tougher when your brand new Dan Wesson or Les Baer, Kimber, Ed Brown, etc, has similar problems. Again, some do, most don't. As my son says... "Get over it."
Add what he said to mine, like I said if you're ready to dump it based on what you see on an internet forum, then Kahr (or any other gun) is not for you. If those kinds of hiccups bother you that much, I don't know where you can find such a trouble free environment (except in the libtards little bubble world). It's called life, deal with it.
Tmanski, I understand how those things go, believe me I do. I'm not knocking you, as you said you're willing to make it right, and have a CW40 that is perfect.

[ruf45]

Well said jlottmc

[TheTman]

Well said Old Lincoln and Jlottmc. Any gun has to earn my trust before I carry it.
I don't care who makes it. Semi-auto's get a lot more testing than my revolvers, but they've always been the ones to give me problems. I've only had one revolver that had to go back to the factory. And that was my Charter Arms .44 special, (many consider Charter Arms to be junk), but it is one of my carry pieces. When I got it back, I put a couple boxes of ammo thru it, and it ran fine so it went back into the carry rotation. It developed some play in the cylinder, where the firing pin wasn't making good contact with the primer, so it went back. I think it was gone about 2 weeks. Just shows that you want to shoot your carry piece(s) fairly often to make sure no problems have crept in.

And thanks for that number on the return rate. Less than 1 percent. That's pretty damn good if you ask me. I hope that makes everyone that is doubting their guns reliability feel better.

[Kahr Carrying Infidel]

Holy crap! Sounds like I need to sell my CW45 ASAP! Mine has been 100-percent reliable, but since so many forum members are having such trouble with theirs, I better unload it while I still can! Fear! Fear! Fear! Sell! Sell! Sell!!!

[jocko]

sound slike the stock market, doesn't it, only maybe opposite. sell on good times buy o fear..

[OldLincoln]

If someone has a fearful PM45 they have to drop today I'll pay $100 shipped to my FFL. Just PM me and we'll get it going.

[jocko]

ur a nasty man old lincoln!!! Maybe Bawanna would part with his, u think???

[jlottmc]

I'll jump on that action too. I like 40's and 45's, the flavor of those is unimportant, P, PM, K, MK. As long as I don't have to add a caliber to the battery, I'll help give those problem Kahrs a good home too.

[Bawanna]

ur a nasty man old lincoln!!! Maybe Bawanna would part with his, u think???

Not likely.

[OldLincoln]

Hey, I'm only trying to be helpful here.

[kahrking]

P45 running strong here so far. No complaints but still breaking it in.

[Fedor]

its a strange person posting. He is not trying help, he is just wanting to stir the pot. When you make a statement like he made it kinda shows to me the character of the person.

ur to kind .:rolleyes:

You are questioning my chacter because I have concerns about the reliability of my CW45 pistols?

[jocko]

not really I got you figured awhile back..

[PCollen]

I'd also add that In my opinion any prepping beyond a basic clean and lube prior to having a firearm that is fully functional out of the box is a failure on the part of the manufacturer.

Hear, hear !!! +10 !!! When researching the Ruger SR9c pistol , I read about numerous 'break in' issues , and most recommendations included cleaning out the striker channel right out of the box to remove 'packing grease' and 'gunk' that Ruger loads it up with prior to shipping. To me, this is BS that any manufacturer ships a gun requiring a more detailed break down and cleaning , other than perhaps a simple field-strip. How many buyers know anything about a detailed strip of a gun, or have the tools and/or manual dexterity to do it. Perhaps a condition of sale (across a counter) should be a complete detailed prep of the weapon by the sellers shop or service center before the sale is completed.

[jocko]

maybe take that up with the mfg-er. As we do know how guns are shipped and our comments of how to prep a gun for its first outtinbg is based on the fact that most all makers don't clean and relube their guns. I certainly would not want any dealer taking my new gun apart either. It is not like it is a total strip either, especially in kahrs, it is not needed at all. If one uses that little clean out hole in the bottom of the slide up by the breech,he can clean perfectly that striker channel with out taking it apart. YMMV

[TheTman]

I think we'd all pretty much agree Kimber is a good quality gun. They recommend a 500 round break-in before depending on it. Under oiling voids the warranty, over oiling it voids the warranty. Shooting reloads voids the warranty. Speaking of reloads, A gun smith told a friend of mine that something is added to all the powders they sell for reloading, and it leaves some residue behind, even after a thorough cleaning, so the manufacturer can tell if the gun has been shot with reloads. Anyone else heard of that?

[jocko]

I really find that hard to believe on the powder thing, That is the first I have ever read that anywhere . might be true but I want more than a smitty's opinion... ask this smitty what he smokes, ????

sure looks like kimber is trying to cover all THEIR bases on the over/under oiling thing.

[TheTman]

Yep Jocko, I thought it sounded kind of fishy too. I can't figure out what they would use that would leave a residue behind after a good cleaning, yet not harm your barrel. Maybe the gun smith was just trying to make sure my friend didn't run any reloads through his Kimber.

[Bawanna]

Your entering the lawyers liability side of firearms companies. Has very little to do with the guys that build em, fix em and sell em. They are all very good at covering 6. No one blesses reloads, yet they still usually fix em.

I gotta cry BS on the powder thing too. Never heard of that, could be so but I find it difficult to swallow.

Powder for reloaders is a different blend than the big manufacturers use for factory loads, I've discussed this at length in an earlier life. Just the ingredients, not any kind of tell tale marker residue.

[gb6491]

Talking Kimber for a moment:
Kimber's warranty does not specifically mention anything about " Under oiling voids the warranty, over oiling it voids the warranty." http://www.kimberamerica.com/warranty

In regards to "break in" they say:
"For proper Break-in of the firearm shoot 400-500 rounds of Quality Factory Ball (230gr. FMJ) Ammunition, cleaning and lubricating the gun every 100-150 rounds." http://www.kimberamerica.com/uploads/manual-download/1911Fullsize45.pdf Page 23

There is no mention that the gun requires this "break in" to be dependable. To me it reads that extra care is required during this period (IE, "lubricating every 100-150 rounds.") to insure that the parts wear together properly during initial use. That falls in line with other products I've owned. It's been a while since I've bought a brand new vehicle, but as I remember they came with specific instructions about driving and maintenance during the first 500 miles.

Regards,
Greg

[declinetostate]

for what its worth my new cw45 went to the range with 100 rounds of cheap fmj federal from wally world and i had no issues what so ever. Not a single hickup. Funny thing is I was reluctant to purchase it because of the stuff I've read on the internet forums. I went to the range expecting ftf and fte problems but was pleasantly surprised. If the used cw40 I picked up runs anything like my cw45 I'll be a happy guy.

[jocko]

also remember one can print anything on the internet . Most all kahrs operate as they should, those that don't are indeed fixable, many can be walked through the ordeal without leaving this forum even..

[Longitude Zero]

Folks who post on the internet:

15% Know what they are talking about
25% Think they know what they are talking about
60% Are so stupid they need to be removed from internet access

[Bawanna]

Folks who post on the internet:

15% Know what they are talking about
25% Think they know what they are talking about
60% Are so stupid they need to be removed from internet access

We seem to be experienceing a larger than normal amount of the 60 percentile in recent times.

I see theres no percentile for the totally clueless. I'm not even on the radar YET. I feel kind of unnoticed.

[OldLincoln]

Ah come on, that 60% is more like 5% here on Kahrtalk. Most who don't know are trying to learn and some who are familiar with guns (your 25%) can't understand that Kahrs are not the same as the larger guns. Once they get it they will be fine.

Reminds me of the difference when I switch off between my 1911 Colt 45 and the PM9. Really big difference, in fact other than the pointy end going downrange just about everything is different.

Reminds me of a story. I bought a new 1985 Honda Civic as a work car and for years had all day meetings 3 hours away. I'd drive up and back, but after a bit got to where I'd almost crawl out and hang onto the car trying to straighten up.

Finally, in 1998 I bought a 1991 Lincoln Towncar (yep, an "Old Lincoln") and my back ceased hurting immediately. The Civic was a good car but the Lincoln was more comfortable. The Civic went precisely where you pointed it and you pretty much herded the Lincoln down the road. My 1911 is like the Lincoln as it is pleasurable to shoot and just feels good in the hand. My PM9 is all business and more of a tool than pleasure.

I know some here who are tough and likely ride a Harley will say their Kahr is pleasurable and fun. Well, I'm an Old Lincoln kind of guy that carries a tool that is uncomfortable so I may get a tad grumpy if I ever have to use it.