So I'm a Little Unconventional...

[Thunder71]

As a rather new handgun owner and permit holder since January of this year I am new to this world.

My gun background consists of tweety birds with a pellet gun as a kid and pheasant hunting with various shotguns over the years. I grew up with shotguns in the house, sitting open or cased in the corner of my parent's bedroom with the ammo on the floor next to them, it was never an issue, I was taught to treat all guns as if they were loaded - no matter what.

Typical - easy to follow, basic rules.

Fast forward to me closing in on 40 and I finally do something I've wanted to do for many years, own a handgun. I bought my first, an XDM 9mm Compact just a few months ago, shortly before getting my permit to carry, I already have 3 more since then, I love it and shoot every chance I get at the range - I even shoot over lunch break and became a member of 2 gun ranges, one near work and one near home so I could practice any time without much inconvenience to my family life, which includes my wife and 3 kids (8, 4 and 3).

That said, I seem to butt heads with members of all handgun forums that I'm on, something I am absolutely not used to.

I feel I'm generally well liked by most people and get a long well with all types and walks of life, but I feel the most out of place when I discuss my practice with handguns, in particular the fact that I carry without one in the pipe.

Breathe.

I want to carry with one chambered, I do. I'm actually coming to terms with the fact that I will simply have to carry with my PM9 chambered just for the fact that it's a stubborn mule when it comes to hand racking it. It's a perfect concealed carry weapon in my eyes, so I'm coming to terms with this slowly but surely.

My XDM could care less how one gets chambered and has become my bedside companion for now. I've practiced over and over drawing and chambering in one motion and have become quite good at it.

Anyway, I'm not trying to defend my position on carrying chambered or put down anyone who carries with one in the hole. I guess I'm just saying that it's taking me some time to adjust, I've never left a shotgun loaded, unless I'm out hunting pheasants.

For me, it's a little overwhelming... threads start about how you carry and I post my position on it and essentially end up in a 40-1 battle in most cases if I'm lucky, it's not intentional and I don't mean to argue the subject but it happens.

To anyone I've had a disagreement with in this regard, please know that I don't disrespect you for carrying with one in the hole and I hope to get to that point one day, but do understand I have my reasons - and to me they are 4 very important ones and I cannot imagine how I'd feel if something ever happened to any of them, or anyone else, because of being human myself.

Thanks to anyone who has taken the time to read this, I am trying and learning more every day, all I ask is for a little mutual respect.

Take care and be safe.

[Bawanna]

You've shed alot of light on yourself that was probably unknown to many of those who you may have butted heads with here and or elsewhere.

The fact that your a relatively brand new member of the handgun world more clearly explains your aprehension in carrying a loaded chamber. Many many new shooters are that way and who can blame them. I"m a little that way with a new gun. I want to get to know it before I load it and carry it.

Many refuse to own a gun that doesn't have some sort of external manually operated safety of some sort. Thats ok too. I know some like that that are actually ok with Glocks? How silly is that.

Right now your probably lacking in confidence (and thats a good thing). Kahrs are incredibly safe, very forgiving in the accident department.

There will come a time when you'll get comfortable and you'll carry with that chamber loaded. It might be a long time before you go the 1911 cocked and locked route and maybe that day will never come and your no less of a man for that either.

Keep shooting, keeping bonding and you'll eventually have no worries with that Kahr fully loaded.

[mr surveyor]

here's a simple way to "get over it". Buy yourself a 1911 (cheap side just for the "test", or better one for a keeper), an old Star Model BM, or any other single action pistol with a big old hammer and thumb safety. Get a cheap holster...anything that fits will do. Then every night while at home, and weekend time while doing those odd jobs around the house, holster up and carry the unloaded SA pistol with the thumb safety disengaged. Unless that gun has a damaged sear/trigger mechanism, that hammer ain't gonna fall without some help in the trigger guard. Now if a touchy triggered SA pistol, without the safety engaged, don't drop the hammer by itself, why would you even think that a safe action DA pistol would?

Simple:D


surv:cool:

[yqtszhj]

It's a free country. Carry how you like. I understand.

I had a single action colt 380 that I was paranoid about carrying cocked and locked. That's how I ended up with an LCP first then my CW9. I like the long revolver like triggers and carry in a holster to cover that better than that short, crisp trigger in the 1911 style for concealed carry. I just make certian that I know where the trigger is and where my index finger is.

[MW surveyor]

With three young children, I can understand your reluctance to carry the PM9 with one in the chamber in the event that you forget to un-chamber the round/clear the pistol when you get home or put the pistol up for the night.

As you have indicated, you keep an XDM bedside and can rack a round in it easily. So, when at the range practice sling shotting the first round into your PM9 until you can get to to chamber the round correctly and fire.

As Bawanna said, you are new to this and probably you also had some second thoughts about carrying initially. You have evidently got beyond this fear of carrying and I believe that you will eventually carry with a round in the chamber of the PM9.

BTW - no apologies are necessary in defending your opinions or actions.

[jimbar]

Welcome to the forum.
I can understand not wanting to carry with one in the chamber, being fairly new to handguns. I would hope you re-think it later. My take has always been that if I ever got into a "situation' where I needed to unholster, I want it to be ready to just pull the trigger, not have to chamber a round first. Just my preference. As for around the house, mine is always loaded, ready for use,...but, I live alone, have no small kids around, so it's not a problem.
Keep doing what's comfortable for you, it'll be fine.

[Jeremiah/Az]

Carrying one in the pipe, mostly not carrying, is a subject that seems to get very emotional quickly with many shooters. I see it on most gun boards at one time or another. I carry my PM9 & P380 with a round in the pipe without worry. I have been shooting & carrying guns for more than 60 years. I ,however, can not carry a gun c0cked & locked even though I know it is perfectly safe & the proper way to carry them. I just do not get into conversations about the subject. I guess I just did! :eek:

[aray]

Ya gotta make allowances for kids. Just the way it is. Sure, you can train the older ones, but even if you do it right there is an age where they are old enough to squeeze the trigger of "the toy" but not old enough to understand that the gun is not a toy to even touch. No debate on that, though some may argue the relative age ranges.

So what to do? There's no right answer there. You can keep it locked up in a safe, out of reach of the kids (but better be sure "out of reach" really is), no round in the chamber (hint: a safety can be flipped so that's only modest help), trigger locks, carry literally all the time and never have the gun out of your sight & control (but all means all), etc. The answers are as varied as the readers - no one size fits all. We might have our preferences, but it is incumbent on each owner to judge what he/she thinks is best for their particular family and situation. At the end of the day, you're the one who has to live with the consequences of your own actions - no one else.

[OldLincoln]

Aw shucks, Artisan. Most of us here are unconventional, at least to many of the gun forums I've been on. Question is does that make us conventional - hope not.

I initially carried a tiny Colt Mustang Pocketlite 380, a gun that now seems like was about 3" long and weighed 6oz, but I know it was bigger than that. Anyway, it was single action and had a hammer. The forums then (hadn't been here yet) told me I HAD to carry chambered and fully cocked. I looked at that hammer and it scared me, so I didn't. Everything I read and even the gun meisters at my LGS instructed me that if cocked and locked you could throw that gun against a brick wall without even the slightest chance it would fire. Still I refused.

I sold the Mustang and bought the PM9 and forced myself to carry chambered, but in a good holster that protected the trigger. As I became comfortable with that I continued reading and learned more about the design and my confidence in it grew. Now I wouldn't consider any other way.

I inherited another single action hammered gun, the Colt Commander 45. But now that I understand guns better I carry it chambered and cocked and of course with the safety engaged.

It's all good and some things have to grow on you. My belief is that you will over time feel better about carrying the Kahr chambered but the pace at which that happens is up to you. Tired but true saying is better to carry how you want than not carry. I don't know what percentage of SD gunfights are quick draw contests but I suspect fewer than one may think. At least I hope so as I am quite slow.

As far as respect goes, you have mine by standing up and speaking your mind. We do that a lot here and I'm sure you will fit right in.

[Jeremiah/Az]

Ray, I understand & agree. What I don't understand is how are kids different today. My dad's guns were always out or in the corner with ammo right beside them. My kids were raised the same way. No one ever thought of messin' with them. We did get to shoot a lot with dad & my kids with me. Is it the no discipline of today where so many parents just let their kids do whatever they want with no consequence what so ever?

[NewBlackDak]

If it's not ready to rock and roll you might as well carry a rock.

[OldLincoln]

>> If it's not ready to rock and roll you might as well carry a rock. <<

Pretty strong statement. What specific scientific notion is it's basis? Let's see, "rock and roll" likely equates to condition 1, and I presume "might as well carry a rock" could be facetious for not carry at all. Surely you don't mean that if one doesn't carry a weapon in condition 1 they should leave the gun at home, do you?

I tend to believe those well trained in defensive carry tend to carry in condition 1, however, those entering the field of study often are uncomfortable doing so. Those (such as I was) are like new recruits in the military who are not ready to carry loaded weapons until trained how to do so safely. In addition to knowledge, that training provides confidence in their ability to do so, and the combination of knowledge and confidence leads to a fully capable individual, military or civilian.

[HadEmAll]

I believe the simplest argument against not carrying with a round chambered is the fact that you just won't always have 2 hands available when the need arises. We just naturally assume we will.

[Dietrich]

I carry with a round chambered in my DA handguns all the time.However,when I carry my Browning HiPower,I am not comfortable carrying it cocked and locked and I don`t think I ever will be.I have read that this is THE WAY to carry it but I ain`t.Don`t worry about having one in the chamber if it makes you uncomfortable.The only way to get over your apprehension is to go slowly and adjust at your own pace.And don`t worry about someone jumping down your throat about it on this forum.If they do,I`ll guarantee they won`t be jumping down your throat for very long.We`re a pretty easy going bunch and we all have opinions but we try to be helpful to all people with questions and you can`t do that by berating or belittling someone.Go easy and let us know how things progress.

[ripley16]

As a rather new handgun owner and permit holder since January of this year I am new to this world.



I predict your view and carry mode will evolve over time as you become more comfortable with your guns and your abilities. In the meantime; practice, learn and develope your skills. :cool:

[jocko]

You've shed alot of light on yourself that was probably unknown to many of those who you may have butted heads with here and or elsewhere.

The fact that your a relatively brand new member of the handgun world more clearly explains your aprehension in carrying a loaded chamber. Many many new shooters are that way and who can blame them. I"m a little that way with a new gun. I want to get to know it before I load it and carry it.

Many refuse to own a gun that doesn't have some sort of external manually operated safety of some sort. Thats ok too. I know some like that that are actually ok with Glocks? How silly is that.

Right now your probably lacking in confidence (and thats a good thing). Kahrs are incredibly safe, very forgiving in the accident department.

There will come a time when you'll get comfortable and you'll carry with that chamber loaded. It might be a long time before you go the 1911 cocked and locked route and maybe that day will never come and your no less of a man for that either.

RESPECT has to be earned and your post here went along way in my book to do just that.

Keep shooting, keeping bonding and you'll eventually have no worries with that Kahr fully loaded.

indeed, his comments puts a whole new perspective n his thoughts . I know had I know tha tI wold have probably be less critical and more suggestive.

Being new to anything is when most questions should be ask IMO not directives given . In time he will carry with one in the pipe, if he feels confident with the weapon of his choice. So Little artisan, join the kahr forum, we (I) all like you and we are here to help, although some like Bawanna get alittle out of hand and we have to reel him in once in awhile. Listen to ol jocko, he is wise, SUPERLLY KIND AND GENTLE and really does want to help..:cheer2::cheer2:

[aray]

Ray, I understand & agree. What I don't understand is how are kids different today. My dad's guns were always out or in the corner with ammo right beside them. My kids were raised the same way. No one ever thought of messin' with them. We did get to shoot a lot with dad & my kids with me. Is it the no discipline of today where so many parents just let their kids do whatever they want with no consequence what so ever?

I agree. Look at some of the old TV shows for the way life used to be: The Andy Griffith Show comes to mind. Look in the corner near one of the doors & you'll see a rifle propped up against the molding around the door. Opie & his friends wandered around loose and there the guns sat. Ditto Lassie. And so on. Yes, these were just TV props with actors - but they put them there because in the era the shows were filmed a gun was a common household appliance. Today - not so much.

When I do carry CCW I'm fully locked & loaded. My gun is not peeking out unless I'm in a lethal situation, and fractions of seconds might count. Indeed that's one of the things I like about the Kahrs - no external safety for me to worry if it is in the wrong position or not. Just draw, acquire front sight, bang.

But for the guns around the house not in my immediate control, I keep them locked up in safes. My 12 year old knows not to touch them even if they were out (except when we go to the range - and oh by the way she has decided that it is "her" Uzi...) But the neighborhood kids? Don't trust 'em around guns. Heck my guess is not only are they not trained, but their folks probably wouldn't even let them come over and play if they knew we had guns in the house. (It is Maryland after all...) I can't trust those kids to have any sort of training or common sense in liberal-land.

And even for my own kid, before she was old enough to know better (think 3, 4, 5) I kept them locked up even for her.

Each family has to work out their own solution, because each environment is different, and we're all varying degrees of risk tolerant. Live & let live.

[Thunder71]

I wasn't expecting such a positive flow to this. It's great to read all of the comments this morning, they are all greatly appreciated.

I had a feeling there was some sort of disconnect between my thoughts and the other members, and perhaps it is just my newness to carrying vs other people. Granted, some warm up to the idea much quicker. That said, if I didn't have kids I'd be carrying chambered from day one.

Today, I carry my Kahr PM9 with a round in the chamber and 6 on standby inside my new Garrett Industries Silent Thunder IWB holster and my XDM's chamber loaded indicator is propped up as well as it waits quietly in the nightstand, locked in the pistol case.

I truly appreciate all the words of encouragement, you're a great group of folks and I'm happy to be here.

All the best,
Chris

[Tilos]

Light Artisan:

Have you considered a small revolver, da only, with a key lock in the frame.
No unloading at home, just lock it.
No racking, no empty pipe, etc.

I've done that;)
just sayin'
Tilos

[Thunder71]

No, I haven't even explored revolvers... might look into it though, thanks!

[mr surveyor]

now, I think I understand this was not about actually carrying a fully charged weapon, rather about small children having access to a fully charged weapon.

Two totally different discussions.

[Thunder71]

No, it was about carrying with one chambered.

[OldLincoln]

>> No, I haven't even explored revolvers... might look into it though, thanks! <<

No difference in carrying a revolver than a Kahr. Both are double action and the trigger must be pulled to fire, and with a chambered round, it will fire.

I recommend that you not carry chambered until you are more comfortable with carrying. Shoot it a lot, get training or train yourself, work it over cleaning and a little buffing. The more comfortable you become the more inclined you may be someday for carrying chambered. But if not, you still have it on you which is infinitely better than leaving it at home.

There is a lot of room for how things are done around here. Heck you should have read the guffaws I got when I set out to build a powder box for reloading. But they died off and I have it and use it and feel better about it. So don't let the naysayers get you down. The ONLY rule is you must hang out on the forum fairly often.:)

[mr surveyor]

well, if it IS about feeling safe in carrying a charged weapon then I stand by my original suggestion. Carry a cocked but UNLOADED single action pistol around the house, with safety OFF, in a proper holster until you are confident it will not go bang until the trigger is pressed. Even a DA/SA revolver, with hammer back (again, UNLOADED until you are confident) will prove the same point as a semi-auto pistol.

I think there was some confusion added to the discussion with the interjection of the children as a consideration.


surv

[Bawanna]

People say it adds a lot of confusion whenever I post?

[Thunder71]

Haha, yeah I think we are on the right track here. I'll visit often and continue to be an active member. Carrying chambered today after reading all the comments.

Thanks again guys.

[jocko]

People say it adds a lot of confusion whenever I post?

as u well know the majority is always right:photo:

[OldLincoln]

>> as u well know the majority is always right << HUH?

[TheTman]

Hi Light Artisan, do what you feel comfortable with as far as one in the pipe. I am on the side of carrying one in the pipe, but if you're not comfortable with it, then don't.
I just hope you have both hands free if you're ever in a situation.
I see you are are going to carry one in the pipe today, in a holster. GOOD!!!. No way would I carry a semi with one in the pipe without a holster that covered the trigger guard area. I do sometimes carry my revolver poked down the front of my pants "mexican style" with it's Barami Hip Clip clipped on my belt, but I feel pretty safe due to it's heavy double action trigger pull. I'd feel something going on if the trigger were to snag something.
As far as your kids go. I trained mine from a very early age to respect guns. Not to fear them, but just respect them. I took them and showed them what they would do to a watermelon and they got the idea of what could happen if they played with one. I used to test them by FIRST locking up ALL my ammo, and leaving a handgun out on the coffee table over night. It was never touched. I usually got a little head poking in the bedroom door in the morning informing me I'd left a gun out and needed to put it up. They got big hugs and lots of rewards for doing the right thing. They basically got the NRA Eddie the Eagle training. If you see a gun, don't touch, go tell an adult, etc.
I let them all handle them and ask questions, and once their curiosity was satisfied there was never a problem. Of course when they had guests, things were locked up tight. They all knew there was a loaded shotgun in the closet by the front door (except when we had guests overnight), and to leave it alone. (We had a drug dealer living down the street, and weirdos roaming around all hours of the night) It didn't have one in the chamber, but the tube was full and ready to pump. I think kids are just as responsible now, as they ever were if taught right. Dad always kept a loaded shotgun by his bed, and I knew not to mess with it as far back as I can remember.
Good luck and hope you are able to carry one in the pipe when you get comfortable with the idea.

[Tilos]

OL:
A revolver IS different...hammer can rest on an EMPTY CHAMBER.
We all know the trigger pull raises the transfer bar and a empty cylinder is not necessary but would give L.A. some piece of mind.

I think his concern is the firing pin being partially "retracted" with a round in the chamber.(sorry, not able to use the "c" word).

Of course, and empty cylinder would reduce the carrying capacity of a revolver by one round...BUT it would go bang when you pulled the trigger.
just sayin'
Tilos

[OldLincoln]

If a revolver sits with the hammer down on an empty chamber, what happens when the trigger is pulled? When the Kahr has one in the chamber what happens when the trigger is pulled? As for gun drop safety, both are equally safe, and if the trigger is grabbed trying to catch it, equally as dangerous.

Messing with an empty gun and moving the action slowly you can see the safety features at work. That's why I suggested getting familiar by cleaning, and generally messing around with the empty gun. When I did my first detailed slide take down I played with it for quite a while to see for myself how the trigger cams raised the sear block then brought the striker to full **** before releasing it. Funny when you see and understand it, it is both simple and genius, and it works to keep you safe.

[Tilos]

I know the logic...I'm not out of my comfort zone, I'm just trying to help L.A. with options that may best suit HIS logic/comfort zone.

He's the one concerned, a revolver on an empty CHAMBER can be locked that way, can be thrown against a wall all day long and wil not go bang...just like his FEELING about a semi-auto with an empty chamber.
The difference being the revolver WILL go bang when you pull the trigger.

If he sleeps soundly and carries with confidence doing this, regardless of the mechanics, he's better for it.

Just an option of something different, if just for his piece of mind, that's all.
Tilos

[MikeyKahr]

Thanks for sharing your background, Light Artisan. It was very helpful to me to understand previous posts, and with all of the replies, it's easy to tell that it's been helpful all around. I think we've got another case/victime of Kahritis coming on soon!! By the way, don't feel bad about being new to all of this and asking questions. I was more of a newb than you when I first fell head over heels for my Kahr and fortunately found this forum, and voila! Thanks everyone for helping Light Artisan and being the stand-up crew I know you to be, what can I say but I'm glad to be part of this community. By the way, can it really be that Old Lincoln's almost up to the big 1-0-0-0!?!? I think it's time for a party! :photo:

[Bawanna]

Wow, look at that 997. Party Time

[MikeyKahr]

I thought 1-0-0-0 was unbelieveable....then I looked over and saw you're three away from 7-0-0-0!!! :photo::photo::photo::photo:
Holy cow, uncle B - how have you not been fired yet!? :hippie:

[Bawanna]

I thought 1-0-0-0 was unbelieveable....then I looked over and saw you're three away from 7-0-0-0!!! :photo::photo::photo::photo:
Holy cow, uncle B - how have you not been fired yet!? :hippie:

Holy lightening strikes Batman, I hadn't looked lately. Looks like I've got uncontrolled mad keyboard syndrome or diahrea of the forum post or something.
Can you believe I haven't been fired yet? I better call Dr. Phil, polish his bald head and seek councelling.

Well just ignore this 7 grand thing, let party for Old Lincolns 1000.

[MikeyKahr]

How does one ignore 7000? Sorry, my friend, just can't do it....(look elsewhere)....

[Chief Joseph]

I don't carry one in the chamber of my pm9 either. I have a child in the house and I just don't feel safe yet having it fully ready to fire. I take him shooting and constantly remind him it's not a toy, since he sees me pocket it in the morning as we're leaving, taking him to school and me heading to work. I work by myself in a locked room, so I spend time drawing and racking a round and have gotten pretty quick at it. If that split second it takes me to do it is not long enough, I doubt I'd even have gotten it out in time anyway.

[jocko]

I know the logic...I'm not out of my comfort zone, I'm just trying to help L.A. with options that may best suit HIS logic/comfort zone.

He's the one concerned, a revolver on an empty CHAMBER can be locked that way, can be thrown against a wall all day long and wil not go bang...just like his FEELING about a semi-auto with an empty chamber.
The difference being the revolver WILL go bang when you pull the trigger.

If he sleeps soundly and carries with confidence doing this, regardless of the mechanics, he's better for it.

Just an option of something different, if just for his piece of mind, that's all.
Tilos

If one has doubts aboutr carrying a semi loaded, a revolver is the best bet. A good one will go bang every time, A good one is safe as hell, many today have internal locks for additional safety. I have said this many times for a woman who is not gun savvy like most men are and that wants a gun, buy her a revolver. She can make it work, she can unload it with ease, she can feel safe with it. She won't shoot it as good as a semi either but 99.995% won't ever have to use it in anger or defense either. We think a woman should have a semi,most women don't know one way or the other. We tend to push our thoughts off on what a woman should have or not have. We tend not to ask them as of course we gun guys know what is best.

any woman can shoot an automatic if it is handed t oher loaded and all she needs to do is pull the trigger, hell my dog can do that Give her one unloaded and see how good she is at it. That is proof of the puddin.Many men are the same way. many never owned a gun, had no need to own a gun, no knowledge of guns either. A new world for many. Revolveris the way for them to IMO. . It would be a boring gun world if there was only one gun that was perfect and every dealer had 100 of that same exact gun in his show case and nothing else..:cheer2:

[billpocz]

Light Artisan,

There really is no logic that can be easily injected into this discussion... Confidence or comfort is a feeling. If you do not yet feel this way regarding carrying with one in the chamber, no lengthy discussions, bullying, directions from internet experts, etc will change your mind... You have to have that confidence, or you will end up feeling as if you have something radioactive in your holster!

When I first started to carry, it was a Sig P6. It has no external safety, but the first shot is DA and it is a heavy pull. It was designed with the heavy pull so that the West German cops did not have the occasion for accidental discharges.

My feeling with my PM45 is the same. It is a long pull to get a round off, and by simply touching the trigger, it is not going to go off. I always use a holster that covers the trigger completely.

Personally, I have a high degree of comfort and confidence with carrying in condition 1 with Kahrs (and Sigs). Glocks, not so much!! Oh, I forgot to mention that I have 3 little ones also (9, 7, and 3, and one on the way in 6 weeks). I do not ever feel that I am putting them in danger, but am able to protect them by being ready.

I hope that as you carry more and more, you will gain confidence in yourself and your equipment.

Bill


ps: Congrats to all of the sky high post count folks!! Workin' on more, workin' on more...

[O'Dell]

I don't see anything unreasonable with anything you expressed. Gun owners can be very opinionated, and I've run into that on quite a few forums over the years - I've even been banned from a couple of them. I don't think you will have that problem here. They even tolerate me.

I can also understand you reluctance to carry with one in the chamber. I have been shooting pistols for over forty years, and I still struggle with that concept. Most of my guns have manual safeties which I prefer, HK's, 1911's, S&W's, but a few do not, SIG's, Kahr, LCP. Obviously, safeties can fail, but I'm still a lot more comfortable with one as an extra layer of protection. As for home defense. I live alone so that's not an issue.

So hang around a while and I think you will be pleased with the good folks here a KahrTalk. They are laid back, understanding, helpful, and extremely generous, but that's another story.

[gear_guy]

I have no problem carrying with one in the chamber, but my first time out I did use the safety. Hell, I am going out tonight with an empty holster. (don't ask)

[jlottmc]

I'm guessing a SCCC protest. I thought about doing that, but too many know that I work here too. Kinda hampers that idea.

[OldLincoln]

Nah, bet where he's going he'll carry it in his hand. "Feeling lucky..punk?"

[jlottmc]

Let me know how that works in the PRK for you there Lincoln.

[JimBianchi]

Time and experience will give you the confidence to carry with one in the chamber.

Kahr are very reliable and safe.

You could drop a MK9 loaded 6+1 from a five foot height, bouncing it off a medal step and concrete drive way, watching it turn and bounce in slow motion as the back of the slide hit the ground TWICE and the gun will still not discharge.

And then kick it accidentally and it still won't go bang.

Don't ask how I know....

I started out carrying a Charter Arms Bulldog 44SP in 1988, so the Kahr long trigger doesn't both me a bit.

Because of the internal safeties, I think the Kahr's are even safer than my old 4SP.

Here is a great exercise for you: (Do this safely and with no bullets any where near the pistol, preferably ammo is in another room.)

With an unloaded gun and unloaded magazine put the unloaded mag in the gun and rack the empty gun to ensure it is cocked. Carry the empty gun in your pocket all day, no holster, NO BULLETS.

At the end on the day remove the empty gun from your pocket and dry fire it in a safe direction. (dirt large pile or soft ground is good choice, aiming downward away from everyone and anything)

The gun will go click because the gun is still cocked.

It takes a deliberate pull of the trigger to make it go bang.

Very safe little gun.

[mr surveyor]

sounds like familiar but unnoticed advice:)

[jlottmc]

Don't worry about it Surv. I get ignored often, then what happens, what I said is the exact fix, and like Dietrich I'm sitting there saying "What'd I say?" Happens all the time, but on the flip side we can go back and say I told you so.

[Rainman48314]

I want to carry with one chambered, I do. I'm actually coming to terms with the fact that I will simply have to carry with my PM9 chambered just for the fact that it's a stubborn mule when it comes to hand racking it. It's a perfect concealed carry weapon in my eyes, so I'm coming to terms with this slowly but surely.


Look into getting a MA version of the PM9. It comes with a manual safety. It still has a DAO trigger but you can carry locked and loaded. I just bought a PM9 and considered it, but I would want a SA trigger.

Another option is to use the left side of the Kahr supplied trigger lock. It's a tight fit and blocks the use of the trigger. Train to push it out during your draw. Regardless of what you do, use a good holster that covers the whole trigger guard.

[jocko]

great idea on the MA PM9, gives rthe carrier two options of carry. Personally for me, he it been offered back then I more than likely would have went with the safety. at my age doing dumb things is quite normal. I would have errored on the side of caution. I bought my son A G19, his first semi, and I don't like the glock trigger afety, so I had the SIDER LOCK.COM installed on it before I gave it to him. finest safety I have ever seen and again my option to have it on or off. Kahrs are about as safe as any non safety gun can be, bit for mje I see a need for an option of a gun with a safety on it.

[OldLincoln]

I recall a drop test of a gun (sorry it may not have been a Kahr, it was a long time ago). He chambered an empty round with a love primer and dropped it from 5' and 10' landing on the barrel and the back end. Then he got a long pipe and taped a guide on the gun and ended up dropping it from the roof of his garage. It never fired. After all that he pulled the trigger and it fired as advertised.

Gun manufacturers are under such close scrutiny that if one had a defective discharge they would likely have liberal lawyers show up in a bus, file a class action on behalf of everybody in the US and try to get laws passed to stop all manufacture of guns. They have to do all they can for safety not only to protect from drops but from unfortunate handling, and even then once in a while...

[O'Dell]

great idea on the MA PM9, gives rthe carrier two options of carry. Personally for me, he it been offered back then I more than likely would have went with the safety. at my age doing dumb things is quite normal. I would have errored on the side of caution. I bought my son A G19, his first semi, and I don't like the glock trigger afety, so I had the SIDER LOCK.COM installed on it before I gave it to him. finest safety I have ever seen and again my option to have it on or off. Kahrs are about as safe as any non safety gun can be, bit for mje I see a need for an option of a gun with a safety on it.

I'm with you Jocko [not about giving my son a Glock - He has two and that's two too many for me] about the safety. Someone posted that with experience, you will feel comfortable carrying one in the chamber w/o a safety. How much experience is required? I bought my first hand gun in 1966 as a service carry, and I'm still not really comfortable with the idea. I guess 45 years isn't enough. For years I never owned anything but Hi-powers and 1911's and both had manual safeties. I shot both on pistol teams and only missed going to the 1968 Olympics because the Navy sent me to SE Asia. Still not enough experience, I suppose. I bought my first pistol w/o a safety in the early eighties, a SIG. I never carried that gun with one in the chamber.

Even today, most of my pistols have safeties. If I had thought about it when the PM9 was ordered, I would have specified a MA gun [my bad] I am 67 years old with countless thousands of rounds fired and years carrying a hand gun. I have never had a ND, and I don't want one this late in the game. I don't care how careful you are, accidents can happen to anyone, and I want that extra margin of a safety.

Rant over!

[jocko]

I guess my questions is ,, "what the hell is the matter with having a safety??

[mr surveyor]

I carried my 1911 cocked and locked for a pretty good spell, as well as an old Star BM (patterned after JMB 1911, but no grip safety). Had no problem sweeping the safety prior to firing, and would normally re-safety after firing a few rounds in an attempt to develop proper habit. My greatest concern (other than actually being forced to use a firearm in a SD situation) is that I would have the awareness in the aftermath to make the firearm "safe" prior to placing it on the ground or re-holstering. The 1911 having the grip safety is a lot less concern than other single action pistols with nothing but the thumb safety. I know that if I shot nothing but the SA's again, the muscle memory would be there in some form or fashion to remind me to automatically engage the safety before the firearm leaves my hand. Having DA handguns removes a step I no longer want to deal with concerning the carry of my SA or DA/SA (would I remember to hit the de-cocker in the aftermath of a SD use?) handguns. Before I added the KelTecs and Kahrs to the rotation I thought life was simple. Now that I have the true quality and simplicity of the Kahr, and 100% confidence in it's carry safety, life is much simpler.

I'm still a young 57-ish, but have found that I question myself quite often in the last couple of years. I'm learning to appreciate "siimple".


surv