P380, 150 Rounds In Pouring Rain

[Ninjatarian]

I went out to finish my break in of the P380, about 2 mags in it started to rain pretty hard. I got wet fast so I decided to just keep going. I put 150 trouble free rounds down range in the pouring rain. I had 1 failure to feed using a magazine of mixed up assorted ammo.

1 concern. I noticed right after I bought the gun that there is a little ding in the barrel right where the casings eject. Didn't seem to affect anything so I ignored it. But I noticed while shooting, every 3rd-4th ejected casing would come back and hit me on the head or in the face. Is that typical? Could it be that ding causing it?

Last thing, shooting in the pouring rain... the gun got soaked. Probably some oil/water mixture in the upper. Recommendations? Does it need to be totally stripped? Or will it dry out on its own?

[Bawanna]

I went out to finish my break in of the P380, about 2 mags in it started to rain pretty hard. I got wet fast so I decided to just keep going. I put 150 trouble free rounds down range in the pouring rain. I had 1 failure to feed using a magazine of mixed up assorted ammo.

1 concern. I noticed right after I bought the gun that there is a little ding in the barrel right where the casings eject. Didn't seem to affect anything so I ignored it. But I noticed while shooting, every 3rd-4th ejected casing would come back and hit me on the head or in the face. Is that typical? Could it be that ding causing it?

Last thing, shooting in the pouring rain... the gun got soaked. Probably some oil/water mixture in the upper. Recommendations? Does it need to be totally stripped? Or will it dry out on its own?

We do that shooting in the rain stuff alot in washington. We do alot of stuff in the rain in washington, otherwise we wouldn't be doing much.
That little burr is pretty common and shouldn't hurt anything, you can clean it up with a fine file or a bit of find sandpaper. Once its cleaned up it usually doesn't come back.
Typically the casing to the forehead is lack of a solid grip but could also be an extractor issue in some cases. Were the forehead shots late in the wet session?
If you clean out the striker channel using the Jocko brake cleaner method and put a drop or two of oil on the extractor area, clean and lube as normal you should be fine. The oil will find it way into the extractor.
I'd blow things out well with my compressor or one of those canned air for your computer.
I'd not leave it in the holster for any length of time after a wet shooting session. Let the gun breath so to speak. I don't leave my guns in holsters ever unless I'm wearing them, seen too many stored in leather in grandpa's closet for a couple decades and come out not so pretty.

[jlottmc]

Spray it out, then oil the thing well, you'll be more than fine. Doubt the ding causes anything, in fact you could file that out and it most likely will stay gone. As for the love taps, here is what I would check in this order: 1 grip, strangle that Kahr 2 recoil spring is getting weak 3 ejector needs to be tuned. Grip sounds most likely, followed by that recoil spring. Just my .02

[kpm9]

But I noticed while shooting, every 3rd-4th ejected casing would come back and hit me on the head or in the face. Is that typical? Could it be that ding causing it?



Doubt that is the cause. My started to exhibit this tendency recently and I've ordered a new extractor, extractor spring and will report back.

[Ninjatarian]

Well mine is new so I wouldn't think it would a have a problem. It may go back anyway for a trigger issue, it makes a "click" in its stroke and feels a little gritty.

[jocko]

Well mine is new so I wouldn't think it would a have a problem. It may go back anyway for a trigger issue, it makes a "click" in its stroke and feels a little gritty.

this to test something out. No round n the gun, push in on that side plate on the right side and pull the trigger and see if the click dissapears. Ifr it does, call kahr and have them send u a new side plate to see if that cures it. that gritty feel, IMO is more than likely that trigger bar spring. It runs along that trigger bar aqnd actually keeps in in place, but sometimes that bar could have just a tad of a ruff area where that spring loop rides. It is easy to see from the top of the frame, and if u have to replace that side place, then it is reaql easy to see and get to. Just put a dab of gun grease right on that little loop that ridses on that trigger bar and I bet that will dissapear. In time just more rounds down range would also smooth this out..

[Bawanna]

Flushing out that striker channel might help with the gritty. Not sure on the click. That might improve on it's own with a few more rounds thru it too.

[Ninjatarian]

I could see the spring sticking on the trigger bar causing the click. So I emailed Kahr and asked if I could possibly fix it myself (just wanted it in writing to cover my ars) and they said try a small file. So I used some sand paper and xxxx wool and got rid of some of the click but then it felt gritty. After the 150 rounds, the gritty was gone but the click was back. Do you think they will just send me the parts? How hard are they to install?

On a side note, I am very pleased with the accuracy of this gun. As stated in another thread about it, I am going to range this gun fairly frequently so sites and comfort were kind of important to me. I had no problem popping tin cans at 60' with this little guy.

[Cokeman]

this to test something out. No round n the gun, push in on that side plate on the right side and pull the trigger and see if the click dissapears. Ifr it does, call kahr and have them send u a new side plate to see if that cures it. that gritty feel, IMO is more than likely that trigger bar spring. It runs along that trigger bar aqnd actually keeps in in place, but sometimes that bar could have just a tad of a ruff area where that spring loop rides. It is easy to see from the top of the frame, and if u have to replace that side place, then it is reaql easy to see and get to. Just put a dab of gun grease right on that little loop that ridses on that trigger bar and I bet that will dissapear. In time just more rounds down range would also smooth this out..

Mine has the click which goes away when pushing on the side plate. Is that a bad thing?

[Cokeman]

1 grip, strangle that Kahr 2 recoil spring is getting weak 3 ejector needs to be tuned. Grip sounds most likely, followed by that recoil spring. Just my .02

Mine does this too. My gun has 100 rounds through it so I not thinking springs. What is the proper grip?

How do you tune an extractor? Mine is so stiff, I can barely get it to move using a plastic brush handle.

[jlottmc]

Mine does this too. My gun has 100 rounds through it so I not thinking springs. What is the proper grip?

How do you tune an extractor? Mine is so stiff, I can barely get it to move using a plastic brush handle.

First guns can ship with weak springs, it happens especially like with the commander if they make a full size version right beside it (different spring weights needed). As for the proper grip I have found that tupperware guns like to be held really high and tight, like I said strangle that dude (if I weren't at work and so photographically challenged I would shoot some pics). Third extractor is different than ejector. Extractors can be tuned with springs (good luck there with out more time and head ache than it's worth on a Kahr), and with a fine file to remove burrs and polish. Ejectors are a little more serious to tune, and can be done with a file and patience or by getting one that is longer. Ejectors can be more difficult to replace, and again I sit at work and don't have a Kahr beside me to see how to remove one. My money is on the grip, that is usually where things start to get funny. I tend to roll the web of my thumb under the beavertail (so that my hand is as high as I can get it), and keep the pistol inline with the bones in my forearm, couple that with a tight grip with the middle, ring and pinky fingers, and I've had no problems that were grip related. For my commander I will find a stiffer recoil spring, as I like stiff springs anyway, and go that route.

[Big_John_1961]

this to test something out. No round n the gun, push in on that side plate on the right side and pull the trigger and see if the click dissapears. Ifr it does, call kahr and have them send u a new side plate to see if that cures it. that gritty feel, IMO is more than likely that trigger bar spring. It runs along that trigger bar aqnd actually keeps in in place, but sometimes that bar could have just a tad of a ruff area where that spring loop rides. It is easy to see from the top of the frame, and if u have to replace that side place, then it is reaql easy to see and get to. Just put a dab of gun grease right on that little loop that ridses on that trigger bar and I bet that will dissapear. In time just more rounds down range would also smooth this out..
This is exactly what my P380 does, and pressing in the side plate does get rid of the click. The trigger pull is smooth except for that click mid-stroke.

[Ninjatarian]

Another 100 rounds through it, all different grips... still being pinged in the head. If I hold it super tight the rounds pretty much pop up straight into the air a couple feet. I consistently get 1-2 casing the the head per mag. Also some small burs pushed up on the front of the barrel hood. Hope it doesn't develop the PM40 issues I had.

[MW surveyor]

From what I've read, being pinged in the head is better than it not firing!

Burrs? Take a picture and post please.

[jocko]

This is exactly what my P380 does, and pressing in the side plate does get rid of the click. The trigger pull is smooth except for that click mid-stroke.

now u have something to work with, put a dab of grease on that trigger bar spring where it makes contact with the trigger bar. I would even call kahr and ask for a new sidfe plate, just incase that plate is a tadout of spec, but I doubt if it is. Remember that is a #5 torx screw in that plate, u can get a tool at sears in that size ..I do think that click will soon take care of itself to but if u put a dab of great on that loop on that trigger bar spring and it goes away, then again u know exactly where that click is coming from to.

It stills houldbe totally smooth as heh though, might be irritating but for some it is also like a staged trigger, u know when you feel/hear that click where ur at on that trigger to...

Also witht he slide off u can see that top part at the rear of that trigger bar that moves up and down when the trigger is pulled, I always dab grease in front and in back of that bar and let it flow where ever it wants..

as far as the rounds in the head. I think that is more shooter grip than any mods the gun can be given. I Know on my G19 even which is my best shooter by far, when I over due it at the range, I will get casings in the head, I know it is time to stop

[Big_John_1961]

now u have something to work with, put a dab of grease on that trigger bar spring where it makes contact with the trigger bar. I would even call kahr and ask for a new sidfe plate, just incase that plate is a tadout of spec, but I doubt if it is. Remember that is a #5 torx screw in that plate, u can get a tool at sears in that size ..I do think that click will soon take care of itself to but if u put a dab of great on that loop on that trigger bar spring and it goes away, then again u know exactly where that click is coming from to.

It stills houldbe totally smooth as heh though, might be irritating but for some it is also like a staged trigger, u know when you feel/hear that click where ur at on that trigger to...

Also witht he slide off u can see that top part at the rear of that trigger bar that moves up and down when the trigger is pulled, I always dab grease in front and in back of that bar and let it flow where ever it wants..

as far as the rounds in the head. I think that is more shooter grip than any mods the gun can be given. I Know on my G19 even which is my best shooter by far, when I over due it at the range, I will get casings in the head, I know it is time to stop
Thanks for the info, jocko. The clicking doesn't really bother me that much, and I don't notice it at all while shooting. I did contact Jay at Kahr to ask about getting a new side plate, and he wouldn't send me one right away. He said it's likely a burr on the trigger bar, and not the side plate itself, which runs counter to what I've read here. He said to inspect the trigger bar.

I've pulled the trigger with the slide off and can't really tell what it causing it, but I'll try to get a #5 torx driver, remove the side plate, and take a look and/or grease it.

I put another 100 rounds through the P380 yesterday (up to 250+ now), and the news is that the slide lockbacks dropped way down. I think my grip was allowing my thumb to hit the slide while shooting, causing the slide to lock back with rounds still in the mag. It's a good little shooter, and it's really grown on me.

[jocko]

Jayh is probably right,...

[Ninjatarian]

I have tried holding the pistol every possible way. It could be clamped in a vice, it wouldn't make a difference. It doesn't eject casings out and to the right, period. I have never had an issue with any other pistol putting casings into my head including a ruger LCP and my PM40. I have emailed Kahr again, now I wait. The trigger pull hasnt smooth out either. I pulled the side plate off and used super fine sand paper and steel wool to try and smooth the trigger bar with no luck. No luck with grease or oil.

[Big_John_1961]

I have tried holding the pistol every possible way. It could be clamped in a vice, it wouldn't make a difference. It doesn't eject casings out and to the right, period. I have never had an issue with any other pistol putting casings into my head including a ruger LCP and my PM40. I have emailed Kahr again, now I wait. The trigger pull hasnt smooth out either. I pulled the side plate off and used super fine sand paper and steel wool to try and smooth the trigger bar with no luck. No luck with grease or oil.

Sorry to hear that. Probably time to send it in.

[Cokeman]

Thanks for the info, jocko. The clicking doesn't really bother me that much, and I don't notice it at all while shooting. I did contact Jay at Kahr to ask about getting a new side plate, and he wouldn't send me one right away. He said it's likely a burr on the trigger bar, and not the side plate itself, which runs counter to what I've read here. He said to inspect the trigger bar.

I've pulled the trigger with the slide off and can't really tell what it causing it, but I'll try to get a #5 torx driver, remove the side plate, and take a look and/or grease it.

I put another 100 rounds through the P380 yesterday (up to 250+ now), and the news is that the slide lockbacks dropped way down. I think my grip was allowing my thumb to hit the slide while shooting, causing the slide to lock back with rounds still in the mag. It's a good little shooter, and it's really grown on me.

I can see exactly what's causing the click. Take your slide off and look at the trigger bar from above. You can see the spring that is attached to the trigger bar between the slide plate and the rest of the frame. Watch that spring as you pull the trigger back a little bit. The trigger bar starts to move and the spring doesn't. Then the the spring moves forward and clicks.

[jocko]

u got that right cokeman, grease right there will stop that and soon it will smooth it out itself or if it bugs one badly, pull that side plade and with some fine 600+ grit auto paper smooth it/polish it right in that area. no need to do more to that bar.

what cokeman is telling u is wha tyou will see witht he slide off and a light from the top shinning in the well area and it is on the right side, long looking flat bar and that tiny ass spring with a half loop sitting right on top of the trigger bar. This is notr a spring with coils now but a curled one peace spring. very easy tos ee from above. a "Q: tip with a dab of grease right on that spring notch on top of that bar will more than take care of that clicking..

[Ninjatarian]

Sorry to hear that. Probably time to send it in.


Got an RMA #, refused to pay return shipping though when I asked about it.

[Big_John_1961]

Got an RMA #, refused to pay return shipping though when I asked about it.

I would insist until they cave, Ninatarian. I know for a fact they will pay for shipping (just read some posts/threads here), and they should for a warranty issue like yours. At the very least, it can't hurt to firmly but politely ask. :)

[Ninjatarian]

They were very reluctant to even taker it back it seemed. They were pretty much telling me to fix it myself.

VERY different experiance from when I had my PM40 warrantied. I hope we arent seeing the end of Kahrs great customer service.

[Cokeman]

No pics? I was hoping to see the burrs.

[Big_John_1961]

I can see exactly what's causing the click. Take your slide off and look at the trigger bar from above. You can see the spring that is attached to the trigger bar between the slide plate and the rest of the frame. Watch that spring as you pull the trigger back a little bit. The trigger bar starts to move and the spring doesn't. Then the the spring moves forward and clicks.


u got that right cokeman, grease right there will stop that and soon it will smooth it out itself or if it bugs one badly, pull that side plade and with some fine 600+ grit auto paper smooth it/polish it right in that area. no need to do more to that bar.

what cokeman is telling u is wha tyou will see witht he slide off and a light from the top shinning in the well area and it is on the right side, long looking flat bar and that tiny ass spring with a half loop sitting right on top of the trigger bar. This is notr a spring with coils now but a curled one peace spring. very easy tos ee from above. a "Q: tip with a dab of grease right on that spring notch on top of that bar will more than take care of that clicking..


No pics? I was hoping to see the burrs.
Hey guys, both of you were exactly right. I pulled the slide and used my Surefire to light up the area, and sure enough, that little tail piece of the spring, as jocko described, is just catching on the trigger bar as I pull the trigger. The reason pushing in the side plate relieves it is because doing so pushes that little part of the spring off the trigger bar. So, it's definitely not the side plate.

I tried throwing some gun butter on there and it didn't really do much. it looks like the little burr will need to be sanded or filed off. It's not really a big deal because I don't really notice it when shooting. I'm also not sure how comfortable I am breaking the pistol down that far.

No photos, mostly because it would be hard to see anything in there anyway. If I do take the gun down and remove the trigger bar, I could throw my camera on the tripod and take a decent pic.

Thanks for the help! :)

[Bawanna]

I've not been that deep into a polymer framed Kahr but I would be very reluctant to remove that trigger bar if it can be avoided. The spring appears to be not that difficult and getting it out of the way might be enough to clean up the bearing surface of the trigger bar and do a little polishing. Trigger bar removal could result in a huge can of worms to me.
It may be every day easy for you and if so go for it. Just typing my thoughts as usual.

[jocko]

don't take the triger bar out, I am pretty sure one has to pull the trigger pin to do that . Not worht it, trust me on that. If u MUST smoth that out, just pull the side plade that triger bar and little spring willbe rignt in front of u, unhook the spring and with 600+ grip paper just polish that area right ther and then put a dab of grease there and, sopot it like u stole it.

I do feel in time with even some gun grease there,, that burr will dissapear on it own. hell my glock trigger almost makes a clicking noise. I call it a staging, for when I feel that sligtht resistance I know what is going to happen with a tad more pull.

a # 5 torx tool is nee dto take that side plate screw off and the plate just pops off. Look closely how that curved spring fits intothe frame, there is a groove in the frame where the top part of that spring lays and that little notch just rides on top pf the triger bar..

NO FILING-- PERIOD..

[Big_John_1961]

I've not been that deep into a polymer framed Kahr but I would be very reluctant to remove that trigger bar if it can be avoided. The spring appears to be not that difficult and getting it out of the way might be enough to clean up the bearing surface of the trigger bar and do a little polishing. Trigger bar removal could result in a huge can of worms to me.
It may be every day easy for you and if so go for it. Just typing my thoughts as usual.
No, I agree, Bawanna. I will try to move the spring out of the way, but if that doesn't work, I'll probably just live with it. 250 rounds and some good cleanings and lubings have smoothed the action out nicely.

[Big_John_1961]

Thanks jocko.

[Ninjatarian]

I did snap some pics of the burs before I sent it in, they were difficult to get as they werent very large (yet)

I took the side cover off of mine to try and smooth the trigger bar. Super fine sand paper and XXXX wool took away the one "click" and replaced it a longer section of grit instead. And besides, I shouldnt have to fix my brand new gun.

My biggest issue was the casings to the forhead. Thats the thing I really wanted resolved the most.

[jocko]

ur right u should not have to do some of the things we ask you to look for but in some cases it is duable, so why not, The casing in he head,m I hope they can do some good for you there but again, it could just be your grip, head stance, body position and other things involved. Did you let anyone else shoot the gun to see if they could duplicate the head thing??? This tells alot.

You fixed with little effort the clicking thing, which very easily cold have slipped bykahr as it was not a malfunction type thing and in time wouldhave taken care ofitself. Also I fele buy you doing thisyearself, u got alittle more insight into your gun to as tohow things operate and what to look for down the road..

Hopefully when it comes back alal will be happy..

[Ninjatarian]

Got the p380 back, the trigger is smooth and it now throws casings into the next county, not a single one even close to my head (which confirms it had nothing to do with how I was holding it). They put in a new extractor. They didnt address the small bur at all, but as of yet it hasnt been an issue.

One thing though. During break in I used 25rds of american eagle followed by 200rds or WWB. Only issue of any sort was a few FTFs.

When I got it back, I ran 100rds of American Eagle and it kept getting the slide locked randomly in the mag. I made sure the slide spring was positioned correctly, but if I limp wrist AT ALL it hangs up. Looking into the gun I see the bullets just barely clear the slide stop nub, didn't have the issue with the first 25 rounds of AE though. I am going to pick up some WWB again and see if it acts like it did during break in, no idea what would have caused a change.

[Ninjatarian]

I believe my previous FTFs were actually slide locks from the slide catch popping up. It looks like the bullets are hitting it. Anyone experience this?

[jocko]

I believe my previous FTFs were actually slide locks from the slide catch popping up. It looks like the bullets are hitting it. Anyone experience this?

P380 would not take 102 grain golden sabres atr all. so I just got away from them...:7:

[Cokeman]

Mine never had a problem with the slide locking back randomly or not locking back when it should. I have S&B in the mag right now and they almost touch the slide stop nub. I can't believe how close they are and that they are not touching. I was wondering if anyone here have a good collection of different brands of .380 that they could line up and photograph so that we could see the differences in length and shape.

[Ninjatarian]

I would have thought the American Eagle would feed nice since they have a conical nose instead of flat. Both those and the WWB are equally close to the nub. Looking at my PM40 and K9, they both have enough clearance to at least see a little gap. No notable gap in my P380. I have some Buffalo Bore 100g Hard cast coming. I'll see how those look.

[jocko]

close is OK, gonna be thatway wikth 380;'s not alot of room n that little gun. if it touches that is a NO....

[Ninjatarian]

Alright, filed the slide stop nub a little so it definitely cleared the ammo with a notable gap. Still has the issue. I also noticed when the slide would lock back, there would be a gouge on the top of the top round, at the base of the bullet / top edge of the casing. What in the world would be causing that?

[Cokeman]

Look at the bottom of the slide. #9 in the pic. The mag springs are quite strong and really push the rounds against the bottom of the slide, especially the first one. When the slide cycles, it gouges the round. Put a loaded mag in the gun and pull the slide back an 1/8 inch. Can you make the slide stay open when you let go?

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a466/btowngeorge/KahrLubePoints.jpg

[jocko]

My PM9 and K9 will close with just a slight poull back. ut aain both of these are so glass smooth that they can do this with ease. I thyink alot would depend on the smoothness of the gun, Not alot of recoil spring strength left in that last 1/4" of travel. IMO that spring has not had a chance to fully recoil back to battery, so maybe sme willdo so and some will not. I would still give the backof the slide a tap after doing so, to insure full battery.

My 380 will not return to full battery.. I think that 380 slide needs the full recoil compression of the springs to return the slide to full battery..

[Ninjatarian]

Um, it should close. My PM40 had an issue returning to battery. It was peened at the front of the barrel hood and they had to replace the entire top end of the gun. It was a common problem with the earlier ones before re-design. I noticed on my 380 a slight bur beeing peened up in the same area.... I am keeping an eye on it. I would check the front of your barrel hood for peening on burs. I have a funny suspision.

[Cokeman]

How many rounds have you shot and when was it born?