P380: Decision time...

[Mokumbear]

I have a fairly new P380.
I am at 200 rounds.
The last 100 rounds have been without any mafunction.
The only thing I haven't done yet is try some JHP SD ammo.

I get a little worried reading about multiple returns to Kahr here.

1) If you were me, would you "stay the course" and hope for the best?

2) Would you sell it and buy a more dependable .380?
If so, which one?

3) Would you just give up on .380's and their inherent possible problems.
(And return to carrying my totally reliable and compact 9mm?)

[MW surveyor]

Don't have a 380 now but what I did when I had one was get a 100 round box of Remington JHPs and ran them through before I went with higher dollar SD rounds.

Worked for me but as in all things YMMV!

[jocko]

mokumbear in ur case keep the 380, ur doing great with it. mine had to go back once but it is fine now and runs like a top. They are reliable, it is just when you get a lemon then it sours on u ...

by the figures I am seeing, kahr is nearing the 10,000 mark with this P380. If it was a problem child as bad as some may think, myslelf included, they would have stopped a long time ago and got this thing right We can't build confidence in that gun by telling you to go for it, only the gun can do that for you, but u have to meet it half way to. Takes two to make a gun work right.

[Bill K]

No I would not give up on the .380. Get if up and running and if nothing else you've got a fantastic BUG or God forbid a hand-off gun. I'll often carry my .380 as a primary simply because it is just so easy to carry and conceal. The amount of .380 carry, I suspect, will diminish once I start pocket carrying my new PM9.

Also, you can always sell the gun later should you find yourself not carrying or shooting it much.

Bill K.

[Ljutic]

Keep it. You've got a winner on your hands.

I've had 2. One was trouble and needed a trip home and even after that would sometimes lock open mid magazine unless I was using Rem Golden Sabers. The second has been a dream gun. Perfect in every way.

Sounds like you got a winner so learn it, love it, and don't leave home without it.

[BuckeyeBlast]

If I had a reliable P380, I'd definitely keep it. If they work, they're a perfect pocket gun. Unfortunately, I'm in the roughly 50% of P380 owners who have an unreliable self-defense firearm.

[Ivan]

Hang in there with it. The only thing you may want to do is try a couple different SD loads, as some work better than others. Gold Dots, which alot of people like, were less accurate in my P380 than Buffalo Bore, Critical Defense and Winchester Ranger loads.

[OldLincoln]

If I had a reliable P380, I'd definitely keep it. If they work, they're a perfect pocket gun. Unfortunately, I'm in the roughly 50% of P380 owners who have an unreliable self-defense firearm.
You're in the "ROUGHLY 50%"? WHAT???? I know some have issues with the P380 but I am very confident that does not amount to half of all buyers by a long shot. Where did you get your number?? I can say with confidence that it is actually under 5%, likely under 1%. Check with JohnH because he is in touch with the manufacturer.

I would like to see a report from Kahr by model of number produced and number failed. JohnH reported some time back that Kahr reported less than .5% (POINT five percent) of all their guns are returned for ANY reason. :32:

[BuckeyeBlast]

You're in the "ROUGHLY 50%"? WHAT???? I know some have issues with the P380 but I am very confident that does not amount to half of all buyers by a long shot. Where did you get your number?? I can say with confidence that it is actually under 5%, likely under 1%. Check with JohnH because he is in touch with the manufacturer.

I would like to see a report from Kahr by model of number produced and number failed. JohnH reported some time back that Kahr reported less than .5% (POINT five percent) of all their guns are returned for ANY reason. :32:

Not all Kahr's as my PM9 has been great. Talking about the P380 specifically. 48.8% according to a poll from our own site: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6088&highlight=380

[HadEmAll]

As one who has had to send his back twice, I'd say if you have one that works, keep it and count your blessings.

Mine is still on probation, but I'm sticking with it until the bitter end. And I hope that never comes.

Best of luck.

Despite having other pistols of all sizes and calibers, there is always a place and use for a P380 sized pistol in my life.

[jocko]

You're in the "ROUGHLY 50%"? WHAT???? I know some have issues with the P380 but I am very confident that does not amount to half of all buyers by a long shot. Where did you get your number?? I can say with confidence that it is actually under 5%, likely under 1%. Check with JohnH because he is in touch with the manufacturer.

I would like to see a report from Kahr by model of number produced and number failed. JohnH reported some time back that Kahr reported less than .5% (POINT five percent) of all their guns are returned for ANY reason. :32:

me kahr and no gun company is going to ever release return stats to the public, No doubt you ask kahr, ford, or any producer ,your gonna get a very low rate quoted back to you. Unlless they are bound by law to report, they don't have to tell us anything and therefore can probably tell us anything they want to.

I think the one poster was referring to the 50% thing as that little poll I had on here about the P380, although it was small in numbers it was not flattering for the P380. One can read and make what ever he wants out of it. Any gun forum is going to have more negatives posted than positives, just the nature of the beast. If one is happy with his product,he normally doesn't go around posting about it, but reverse that and it is all over the internet. Lot of posters IMO troll asround alot, attempting to stir, some get on these polls and never owned the product. Again this is just my opinion, I can't prove it one way or the other. I call it a SWAG (scientific wild ass guess)

With close to 10,000 P380 out it would amaze me if that one product has a .05 return rate, but I can't prove it one way or the other. When these gun companies entered into the small ass semi like the 380 lines we see today, they brought with them quirks that are very hard to eliminate. Shooter error is a big part of the small guns issues,,, but tell that to the owner.
I remember back a few years ago I was talking with a kel tec technician and he stated (his words not mine) that over 50% of all kt's sent back was perfect, not a thing wrong with them. I find that very plausable to, for the kt set the standards back then for a small ass gun sold in mass quantities, so alot of unexperienced shooters bought um because they were neat looking, small and cheap. Little did most know that they didn't know jack sh-t about shooting a small gun or low and behold the word limp wrisinting was hardly used until the small guns came about.BUT these small guns cannot talk back so they have no defense other than to carry the brute of us gun owners who will now tag it as a POS. It is all about timing in a semi auto, and the smaller the gun the more critical the timing thing is and WE THE SHOOTER are a big part of the timing puzzle.

I think PaiN found that out with his kahr 45, but before he was shown proof of the puddin, it was a POS. I give him 125% credit for manning up to it and letting this forum know that indeed a shooter who has been around guns like he has can sometimnes be at fault. Most will never never admit to that.

another reason why I still believe the most fool proof gun out there today is the good ol REVOLVER..

Sad but true

[HadEmAll]

I talk harshly about my P380, but that's because I expected so much from it. It is still perfect (KOW) with Speer Gold Dot 90 grain JHP. I just got a box of Winchester Ranger 95 grain JHP to try. Hoping that expands its dietary requirements.

It's given me some grief, but it's given me some pleasure too.

Matter of fact, I'm heading out for mall and other shopping with the wife, daughter, and my buddy, my grandson (we hang out while they shop) and I'm going all Kahr.

The PM40 in a small Tommy's Original gunpack under an untucked shirt (you'll never know its there) and the P380 in the right front pants pocket. Two spare magazines for both. I feel very well prepared.

And I have confidence that in the event the P380 has to come out first, it'll work with the Gold Dots. In the 300 rounds of Gold Dot through the pistol, and pulling it from the pocket with however the grip ends up, it has never failed to deliver 3 double-taps, or 2 triple-taps with them.

[OldLincoln]

What do you suppose poll results would be for your favorite brand of car if taken in the repair shop waiting room? If you want to put that poll in perspective, take the number of responses and compare to the total sold. Lets see, 16 people have had to send them back. So guess that at least 2,500 have been sold and you have a .064% return rate.

I understand it's bad for those affected and I wish it weren't so, but don't make it out to be worse than it really is.

[jocko]

lincoln, . I posted that my poll was just that and not one you can take to the bank but it was based on the total amount of those who responded, not some number pulled out of the air. U may be right, I certanly hope so and not arguing one way or the other.

[BuckeyeBlast]

Not to mention this isn't a repair room. This is a pro-Kahr site, which is why I'm here. Post the same poll on the PM9, K9, etc, etc... and I'll guarantee you'll see numbers nowhere near that high.

[HadEmAll]

What do you suppose poll results would be for your favorite brand of car if taken in the repair shop waiting room? If you want to put that poll in perspective, take the number of responses and compare to the total sold. Lets see, 16 people have had to send them back. So guess that at least 2,500 have been sold and you have a .064% return rate.

I understand it's bad for those affected and I wish it weren't so, but don't make it out to be worse than it really is.

Ficticious numbers or not, 16/2500 is .64%

It's a problem for those that have them, and they are justified in complaining, here and elsewhere.

The posts I've read by problematic P380 owners seemed pretty informative and detailed. I didn't read any where I thought "that person sounds like a ignoramus".

Nobody knows the numbers, so making up favorable sounding ones to the P380 is just as bad as making up unfavorable ones in my not so humble opinion.

[Bill K]

I favor pocket carry and "love" pocket .380s for that reason. I'm hoping that "love" will transfer to my PM9 someday soon.

My first pocket .380 (P3AT) had many problems, drove me to KTOG and even with help from folks at KTOG took me months to get get running reliably. Once accomplished though I liked the gun so much I got a second one in HC. It was good to go right out of the box and wound up saving my butt some few years later.

BTW, first .380 had a laser added and became a mostly training/practice piece and the second a mostly carry gun.

Take care,
Bill K.

[HadEmAll]

. It was good to go right out of the box and wound up saving my butt some few years later.



I know it's not in good form to pry about such things, but that sure is an intriguing sounding story. Any details you could share?

[TominCA]

I probably had more trouble than most with my two P380's - But I ended up trusting and liking them - a couple of reasons;

As a fooled around with them I realized they were beautifully made with exceptional metalurgy

The design is excellent

And they eventually start behaving, with mine that last 1/10000 of an inch of break in wear happened at about 500 rounds and it started to run beautifully. They have trouble with the P380's, but they are still a good gun with a service life that is way beyond the "other" pocket guns.

Even though its not really fair after spending so much money - they need a lot of breaking in - I recommend you keep it.

[Cokeman]

You made it through the 200 round break in period in 100 rounds and you don't trust it and might want to get rid of it? I'm sure many here would like to buy it from you. Sounds like you got one of the good ones.