PM9 - 1st 2 Range visits- what happened?

[sco]

Last weekend I bought a new pm9 black with night sights, 1000 rounds of Federal Am Eagle 115 FMJ and 20 Federal 124 JHPs. Also got one extra kahr 6 round mag and 2 promag 7 round mags.

First visit to the range was flawless. 50 FMJs and 20 JHPs. Everything fed and shot great.

Then I stripped it down and cleaned and oiled very lightly.

Second trip to the range after cleaning- jammed a lot. Could I have messed up the reassembly or something? Same ammo, same mags. Only thing different was it was a different day and I cleaned it in between.

[Bawanna]

Locking open with bullets left, not feeding, not ejecting or extracting? What kind of jam are we talking about here.

I'd say 70 or so flawless one trip and then jamomatic the next somethings not put back together right but not sure what it could be.

Did you dissasemble and clean / oil prior to the first trip or shoot it right out of the box?

[TucsonMTB]

Add to Bawanna's comments, what lubricant are you using. My PM40 really likes Weapon Shield but is less happy with one of the other highly regarded lubricants that works well with my 1911's and will remain nameless.

The difference is startling. With my full sized stainless 1911 the other lubricant makes is feel like it is super slick or has ball bearings on the rails. In the Kahr the same stuff is almost gritty feeling. Put a little Weapon Shield on the barrel hood and where the barrel goes through the front of the slide and all is well, in terms of feel when hand racking.

To me, that suggests that Kahr's need a high film strength lubricant. YMMV :)

[sco]

When it jammed- it would seem to not get the round all the way in. It would leave the slide open about 1/4 inch. Same thing every time. I'm kind of new to all this so I appreciate your patience...

I did not clean it prior to the first trip- shot it right our of the box. It is only the second gun I've had apart. It's entirely possible I screwed something up. But I was pretty careful, not sure what I could have done wrong.

Also- upon jamming I would clear it- (sometimes this was difficult and required a lot of force opening the slide). After clearing it I loaded the same ammo back in another mag and shot it a few minutes later. That was probably not wise now that I think about it. I may have been attempting to shoot ammo that was damaged by the failure. In other words I may have had 4 bad rounds reloaded 5 times equally 20 failures.

If I can find a good clear video on how to strip it down I think I'll try it again.

I was trying to get through the breakin period as I have a CCW class scheduled for this Saturday. I can always use my browning buckmark .22 that is a tack driver but I really wanted to use the gun I plan on carrying.

I used Hoppe's 9 Lubricating oil- it came with a cleaning kit.

[BuckeyeBlast]

Could the recoil spring have been put in backwards on reassembly? Would that cause this? (open end of spring goes towards the front of the gun)

[TucsonMTB]

It's OK to be a little generous with lubrication during break-in. During the initial wear process, the gun needs all the help it can get. :)

Oh, and take the pressure off yourself, unless there is some requirement to qualify with what you will carry, use the proven Buckmark.

[dannyeller]

The recoil spring does have a front and back. I'm not sure how that would do what you described. When you cleaned it did you clean the chamber. If you put too much lube in the chamber area it could gum up fairly quickly causing a jam like the one you described. It could leave a thick residue just at the throat area of the chamber preventing the rounds from fully chambering.

Next time take a quew-tip cotton swab and apply a lite coat of lube on the swap then with the swab on the slide rails, feed ramp, outside area of the barrel starting at the muzzle to about an inch and a half from the muzzle and the "Trigger Cam" (Not sure what you call it but it is part number 15 on the PM9 diagram). Then after cleaning and lubing the chamber and barrel take a dry patch and run it through the PM9 chamber and barrel several times twisting it a little in the chamber as you go from chamber end to barrel.

You can see a take down video and parts diagram at:
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-PM9.asp

PS: born Avery County and spent 20 years at Fort Bragg.

[sco]

Thanks Tucson...

I just checked and the spring is in correct. I think what I'll do is clean it again and see if I can get to the range again before Saturday. If it's perfect I'll take it Saturday, if not buckmark it is until I get this figured out.

I'm in NC. No requirement for qualifying with same gun I'll carry. I think I just have to shoot with decent accuracy at a couple of different distances, timed. From what I hear it is pretty straight forward.

[BuckeyeBlast]

Hey - what mags were you using when the jamming was happening? I would only try and diag that issue with the Kahr 6 round mags.

[crazymailman]

Welcome SCO. Good luck with your pm9. What part of NC are you from?

[dannyeller]

Hey - what mags were you using when the jamming was happening? I would only try and diag that issue with the Kahr 6 round mags.
Although Buckeye may be from the wrong side of the Mason-Dixon he has a point.

Did the jams occur with all your mags or just one of them? You will need to mark your mags anyway just to keep track of such things now and in the future.

[sco]

The first one it jammed on was a 7 round ProMag, then it jammed with the kahr 7 and 6. I'll stick with the kahr 6 for now though....

[BuckeyeBlast]

An easy way to check and see if it's a mag problem is to put a small piece of masking tape on the floor plate of each mag, then make a mark with each jamb. Rotate through your mags and see if one mag works particularly well or particularly bad. My PM9 HATED the Promag 10 rounder. Used it once, it's sat in my safe ever since.

[sco]

Hey crazy- I'm near Raleigh. I was originally from MD but as soon as I realized I was a southerner I moved. ha ha... Thanks all for all the advice, I'll keep you posted.

[Cornel]

Second trip to the range after cleaning- jammed a lot. Could I have messed up the reassembly or something? Same ammo, same mags. Only thing different was it was a different day and I cleaned it in between.

Also make sure that the slide stop/lock lever is all the way in into the frame. This may cause similar problems.

Welcome to the forum and good luck in your upcoming ccw class!!

[dannyeller]

Hey crazy- I'm near Raleigh. I was originally from MD but as soon as I realized I was a southerner I moved. ha ha... Thanks all for all the advice, I'll keep you posted.

ahhh... Sir Walter Raleigh gun club.....

Shot a few matches there. Real nice people. And the area is just gorgeous.
Only problem it has is that it is too close to Raleigh.:rolleyes:

[MW surveyor]

FYI - Pro Mags are not the best in the world, but they do sell a lot of them. I'd stick with the Kahr mags for the break in. I'm also with the others, if you did not have any problems with the first 70, something is not right.

[RUT]

Friends don't let friends use ProMags! :p

[bigbob68]

I always shoot my carry piece after cleaning to make sure it works.

[sco]

Update:
Cleaned the PM9 after the 2nd range trip when I had all the issues. I didn't mention before, but before the 2nd range trip I racked the slide a few hundred times (read somewhere that was good breakin procedure). When I disassembled to clean, there were some very fine shavings of some sort. (from a few hundred rackings and 100 shots fired) Not sure whether it was polimer or metal. These were in the top rear of the slide and on the top rear of the interior of the polimer base. So I cleaned it all up, oiled a little extra with a different cleaner/lube (can't remember which one at the moment), and reassembled.

Today at the range- perfection- 100 rounds no issues whatsoever. Used only the kahr 6 round mags. I happen to ask the guy next to me that I know to be experienced what the distance is for qualifying for ccw. He said 15 at 7, 15 at 5 and 10 at 3 yards. I shot 100 at 7 and all were within about 5 inches of the center. While I wouldn't think that was great he said there won't be but maybe 5 percent of the class that will shoot that close. Kind of surprised me....

Anyway I'm all smiles again over the way it performed. I now have 270 rounds through it....

[sco]

PS when I said 5 inches of center what I really meant was all were within a 5 inch grouping, so 2 or 3 inches from center in every direction.

[O'Dell]

Add to Bawanna's comments, what lubricant are you using. My PM40 really likes Weapon Shield but is less happy with one of the other highly regarded lubricants that works well with my 1911's and will remain nameless.

The difference is startling. With my full sized stainless 1911 the other lubricant makes is feel like it is super slick or has ball bearings on the rails. In the Kahr the same stuff is almost gritty feeling. Put a little Weapon Shield on the barrel hood and where the barrel goes through the front of the slide and all is well, in terms of feel when hand racking.

To me, that suggests that Kahr's need a high film strength lubricant. YMMV :)

I got my free sample oiler of WS this week, but I'm still using Militec 1 plus some grease on the rails and barrel of all my guns, including the Kahr. It's always worked well for me, but I decided to try the WS, and I will.

[jocko]

Nice report SCO

Today I gave my pM9 a day off and went to the range with my trusty ported K9. OH my I had forgotten how sweet that gun really is. Never a hiccup as I expected but the accuracy for me over my PM9 was twice as good and even with that NYPD trigger this gun is just a real shooter. I have those MMC adjustable rear sight and night sights on the gun and after seeing my friends cm9 with those fiber optic front and back sights. I think I am going to send my slide into kahr and let them put on a set of firesights. In as much as this my range/hnome gun, I think I can see that front sight better than the night sight that is on it. My eye sight through no lines glasses just kinda gives me a blur on the end of the barrel. I really love shooting this K9, Now I know why it is the flagship of the kahr line. It is just a real hunk of craftsmanship..

[deadhead1971]

all you need now is a crimson trace LG 437. Welcome. I am in Clayton.

[sco]

Well I looked when I got home tonight to see what lube I used. It was Break Free CLP (Cleaner, Lube, Protectant). O'Dell I like the idea of grease instead of the break free. I have some "Tetra Gun Grease", I'll give that a try. But I'm not going to touch it until after I shoot it tomorrow. Thanks all for all the comments....

[jocko]

I just don't think u can beat the syringe application for putting a small line of any gun grease right inside the slideraisll Use what ever brand you like, they all will dothe job. The greaswe won't run, and no mess is involved in doing that. I also with that syringe applicator put a dab on the cocking cam and under ths slide where the breech makes contact upon ejection and al\ways , insdie the barrel lug and on that slide locklever nub that goesunder that little springhy.

[sco]

Hey Y'all just a quick update. Still no jams since the problem the one day at the range before it was broken in. Now have about 600 rounds through it. Much smoother slide, and goes bang every time. Got the permit too.