Can someone from Texas answer question?

[TheTman]

I traveled to Texas to spend a weekend retreat at a camp in the Palo Duro Canyon near Amarillo. I stopped to eat at Big Vern's Steakhouse (Excellant meal) and there was a sign on the door that stated something like "UNLICENSED possesion of a firearm on the premises would result in a $10,000 fine and a year in prison". My question is would my Kansas CC permit suffice as a license to bring my firearm into the establishment. I assumed it would be ok, but not wanting to take a chance I left my weapon in my car.
I'd also heard you can get in trouble in Texas if you concealed piece peeks out and someone complains, then they can arrest you for "brandishing a weapon". So I was very careful to keep things properly concealed. In Kansas we couldn't take our CC weapons into a bar/restaurant that received a majority of it's revenue from alcohol sales for a couple of years until they changed the law. Now it's legal to carry in bars, unless they have a no guns sign posted, or you consume alcohol to the point it's illegal to drive.

[Willieboy]

I believe the sign you saw at Big Verns would hold no water. In Texas, there is a specific sign required to ban firearms from an establishment. The sign references a portion of the law, section 30.06, that gives establishments the right to prohibit firearms on the premises. Personally, if somebody just paints a sign on a piece of cardboard, I will likely respect their wishes.

You need to determine whether there is a reciprocity agreement regarding concealed carry between Kansas and Texas.

In Texas, we are also prohibited from carrying in establishments that garner most of their income from the sale of alcholic beverages. I believe the percentage is eighty percent but am not sure. I also don't know how one would know what percentage of the establishment's income comes from alcohol sales. Maybe they'll post their income statement and a calculator on the front door.

[mr surveyor]

First, the "Unlicensed Possession" sign is required for any business that sells or serves alcohol, and only prohibits "unlicensed carry" - which is in itself already illegal in most cases. Secondly, and I have not checked the reciprocity map myself lately, but if you have reciprocity with Texas, then carry past the "Unlicensed Possession" is totally legal. Thirdly, any establishment that receives an amount of 51% or more of it's revenue from the sale of alcohol for on premises consumption, is off limits in Texas for entry with a firearm....this does not include liquor stores that sell for off premises consumption. The proper singnage requires for establishments that sell alchol is regulated by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission (TABC), and there are various types of signs required for different conditions. At to other private businesses that wish to prohibit concealed carry on their premises, they do in fact have to post a very specific sign with very specific language (a.k.a. "the big ugly 30.06 sign") to make their establishment off limits. Very, very few businesses actually post the "proper sign", mostly due to ignorance of the law available to them...and we don't really want to inform them.

Now, there ARE some cases where an out of state resident doesn't enjoy the same freedom of movement while carrying a firearm, such as carrying within a "Gun Free School Zone" (a.k.a. gun free victim zone), as the laws that protect Texas CHL holders (and I think those of other licensees of their respective states) only make licensees of their state immune from the GFSZ regulations.

It's a real good idea to do at least a cursory study of the laws of the states you carry into. Evert state has it's own idiosyncracies to deal with, and some will really make you pull your hair out.


surv

[TheTman]

KS does reciprocate with TX, that was verified years ago when I went on my first visit to the camp. I always research the laws on other states I visit, there are a few websites devoted to CC and travel. I've had my permit several years, so not a newbie to traveling while packing. Plus I use common sense when unsure and don't carry into banks and state offices, theaters, stadiums, drinking establishments, and places like that. Most places where large groups can gather or alcohol is served and no food is sold, seem to be gun free zones.
I just come across things like that sign once in awhile that makes me wonder if there is some weird state law, in this instance, I wondered if you had to have a special permit to carry where alcohol is served. In KS we can carry in bars as long as we don't indulge to the point it's illegal to drive. I don't drink so that's not a problem, but I do end up in bars once in awhile for some good food. In KS carrying past a gun free zone sign is not a big deal in most businesses, if they somehow see you are packing then they can ask you to leave, if you don't they can call the cops. I've carried into a few gun free zones, not noticing the sign as it wasn't posted properly, which really makes it null and void here.
I was at the gun show the other day when a friend pulled out his loaded piece to compare it's size against another gun and I quickly told him to put it away, as he didn't unload it and let the cops put the zip tie thru the action to make it unfireable. He didn't know he couldnt carry there, he just got his permit a few weeks ago, and was the first gun show he attended since getting his permit. Only vendors are allowed CC at gun shows here. You're welcome to bring your gun in, but it has to be unloaded and get zip tied to be inoperable. Fortunately the vendor didn't make a fuss over it.

Thanks for your reponses! Greatly appreciate them.

[mr surveyor]

like I said... Texas does have some unique laws:)

Banks are NOT off limits, other than the very, very few that post the "big ugly 30.06 sign". State offices...no problem, other than those buildings that actually house court rooms or judges chambers. Believe it or not, you can legally carry under your state CHL, in the state capital building in downtown Austin. They actually have a "fast lane" for entry for those that present their CHL to the officer at the door. Theaters???? Not off limits unless they are posted with the big ugly sign. Now, the post office, federal property, Corp of Engineers property are off limits regardless of state. Polling places where voting is actually taking place is off limits. Churches? Not without the big ugly sign, and very, very few are gonna post. Schools? Only inside the actual buildings, or on the grounds when an actual "school activity" is underway. Hospitals? Not without the big ugly sign (and the official 30.06 - the old 30.05 sign don't cut it. As mentioned before, only those establishments that make 50% or more revenue from on premises consumption of alchol are off limits, but not restruants that may also serve drinks but make less than the 51% off the booze. Professional sporting events as well as school sporting events (school activity) are off limits. Government owned property, including state, county and city can not prevent licensed carry, unless it's for a governmental meeting and they still must post the big ugly sign at the entrance of the building, and only effective during the meeting.

For what it's worth, I wasn't taking a cheap shot, or trying to talk down. Just sharing what little I think I know for fact about my state. That's about the only thing I really have to offer this highly knowledgeable forum.


surv

[jlottmc]

Actually, Mr. Surveyor said it all, and correctly. I would add that the Texas CHL book is available online (for free even) at www.texasonline.com just go to the CHL section under DPS. www.handgunlaw.us is another great info source.

[mr surveyor]

Thank you for the conformation, jlottmc. I often wonder if I'm perceived as a troll as I often tend to have an uncanny ability to kill a thread when I post.

[Bawanna]

Mr Surveyor a troll. Au contraire weedhopper. I aint buying that one tiny bit. You just keep doing what you do. If killing threads is your forte I'll cherish you as a tool. Once in awhile a thread needs a good merciful killing.

You haven't been yourself ever since them darn sensitivity classes you took. Snap out of it, I want my old Mr. Surveyor back.

[TheTman]

Thank you gentlemen. And Mr Surveyor, I don't know of anyone that sees you as a troll or anything else but another member willing to help out those with questions.

Once in awhile I get "little guy syndrome" and got to puff out my chest and proclaim I'm not a newb that doesnt know anything about interstate carry or shooting or whatever the topic is. That's something I need to work on.
I do try and keep my hands quiet and eyes open and learn what I can in these forums. I know quite a bit about actual shooting, have been a young hunter safety instructor and captain of a pistol team, (most everyone shot revolvers so I never ran across limp wristing during that time) but don't know so much about the inner workings of the guns, particularly semis. I've had my CC permit for 4 years, and carried in my car and on my bike without a permit long before that. Although the main function of carrying back then was to check out bathrooms at night at rest areas on the interstates before I sent my girls in, and just to have one in the car in case of trouble. On the bike it was just in case I broke down by myself I would have some protection in case some bad guys decided to knock me in the head and steal my Harley. Anyway I apologise if came off as a bit of an a$$ in my reply.

[jlottmc]

No worries, and no apologies needed from any one here. No trolls to be found, no smart asses either. We may need to fix that part.