P380 Back from Kahr (first range report)

[Native]

Got my P380 back from Kahr today. It's problems were light primer strikes, failures to eject (actually extract) and stovepipes. The slip back from Kahr says "replaced cocking cam, extractor, recoil spring, polished ejector, slid. Lubed test fired good. My results were:
Round 4= stovepipe
Round 6= failure to eject (though it would have dropped out since it was on top of the mag when the slide locked open)
Rounds 7-198 no problems of any kind
Round 198=Failure to eject (stovepipe)
Rounds 199 and 200=no problems

Brands used were Federal AE=first stovepipe and failure to eject, total about 75 rounds
Remington UMC=about 20 rounds no problems
WWB=about 30 rounds no problems
Fiocchi Hardball=50 rounds no problems
Fiocchi Extrema with Hornady XTP bullets=25 rounds (23rd was stovepipe)

That's the skinny on the first trip to the range since coming back from Kahr. No light strikes, that's the good news. First problems in the first 6 rounds gets a mulligan. Stovepipe on round 198 could have been shooter error. Not a "carry" gun yet. Maybe never. It'll take some more shooting after cleaning. Gonna need another job to keep me in mousegun ammo.

[Bawanna]

How many rounds went through it before it went back to Kahr.

With a new recoil spring and if there weren't alot of rounds before the trip your probably still breaking things in.
You had some long stretches with no issues.

It looks like you might be on the path to reliability with some rounds thru it.
200 rounds in a session with those little guns is alot. Could be some tiredness, fatigue involved in those late malfunctions too.

[Native]

How many rounds went through it before it went back to Kahr.

With a new recoil spring and if there weren't alot of rounds before the trip your probably still breaking things in.
You had some long stretches with no issues.

It looks like you might be on the path to reliability with some rounds thru it.
200 rounds in a session with those little guns is alot. Could be some tiredness, fatigue involved in those late malfunctions too.
I think it was 207 or 209 before it went back. The "range" sessions were broken a hundred at a time. But the first mosquitoes and black flies of the season and forgetting my bug dope had me hurrying. I'll post more when I get my midway order or when I clean it and finish off the stuff I have. Thanks for the tips. Always interested in what people think.

[jocko]

Nativej: If u did all that shooting in one session could possably some of those stove pipes be just a tired shooter and not knowing it. Things change rapidly when one gets alittle tired, These little as sguns as u will know demand a good grip every time. if the gun starts to turh in ones hand the slightest, things happen. We sometimes can't tell that is happening either. I think from what you reported your gun is on its way to being what you want of it. Give your range sessions 50 rounds for awhile and see how reliablility works out.l document what rounds work perfect like you did and just stick with them to see it it continues doing well. eliminate some of the possable issues and one might jst be that these little P380 might not like some of the ammo brands we think shold be OK . My P380 hates 102 golden sabre, so I just never shoot um anymore.

[Cokeman]

Not bad.

[TominCA]

Mine took a long time to break in and also one trip back to Kahr. Since getting it back I've done some experimenting and found that grease - rather than light oil lowers reliability. I tried some grease and went to the range with my 100% ammo brands and got some light strikes. I called Kahr and spoke with Jay - They recommend Mil-tech liquid, not the grease, (not sure of the spelling but you can buy it on their website) I gaven't had a chance to try it yet.

Thinking about dirt I started playing with the p380. It has tolerances like a Swiss watch and I noticed that there is zero clearance at the barrel hood / slide lockup as it goes into battery. Any dirt in this area will give you a light primer strike (a few thousandths out of battery causes light strikes) These tolerances can also effect the opening stroke on the p308. The gun is so light and the springs so heavy that there is little tolerance for lost energy. The most friction on the opening slide appears to be between the barrel and the slide and a lesser amount on the slide and front frame rails. There is almost no overtravel past the next feeding cartridge rim. Grease can collect dirt and slow this down also.

Combine this with the varying powder charges in "range" ammo and you can have a few rounds in some boxes which would cycle in most 380's but have that 5% or so drop in energy which is enough to stovepipe the little p380. It apears to the shooter as a pistol malfunction.

My opinion only - but it makes sense from what I see with my pistol.

[Native]

All good and interesting insight from everyone. Thanks. I shot it again today using 12 Federal AE and 13 Speer Lawman. It shot well except there was a failure to eject (sort of) on the last round in the last magazine. This is the same issue as on round 6 after the trip back, where the casing is extracted, the slide locks back like it's supposed to and the casing just lays on top of the magazine. One was facing forward one rearward. The same thing happened once with my LCP. I speculate that it has to do with the next round being absent on the last shot in the mag to give it a little extra push out the ejection port. The first one would have dropped free with a mag change if I were in a tight spot and had to do a fancy mag swap, I don't think the second one would have. So far, If I were in a situation where I needed a .380 as a primary :eek: this one probably wouldn't cut it. Thankfully I don't ever have to conceal anything smaller than a PM9.

[Bawanna]

Is it tossing out the other empties briskly or just dribbling them out? Sounds like maybe the extractor isn't holding on tight enough. At least thats one possible although I don't see why it would only effect just the last round. The ejector is just pushing the empty case away from the extractor and not tipping it out like it should.

[Native]

Is it tossing out the other empties briskly or just dribbling them out? Sounds like maybe the extractor isn't holding on tight enough. At least thats one possible although I don't see why it would only effect just the last round. The ejector is just pushing the empty case away from the extractor and not tipping it out like it should.
Every once and awhile I check the pattern by locking the gun in a two handed vise like grip, then locking my wrists between my knees to eliminate all variables. The gun (even with the new spring) sends one out front a couple feet, one to the right a couple feet, one off the noggin that sort of thing. So to say the least it's inconsistent. Is this ammo related? I'm not sure. I would think Speer Lawman should be pretty consistent but not sure of their QC. I'll check again when I get the Fiocchi from Midway. It seemed to be the hottest and most consistent. Thanks for the opinion.

[TucsonMTB]

Everybody wants to help, and you may have already thought of this, but a little high quality lubricant on the external back edge of the extractor followed by a little manipulation of the extractor with a non-marring object, like a piece of wood may ensure that the extractor is moving freely and under the correct tension from the spring in the tubular channel behind it. On mine, the drop of lubricant does not seem to flow into the mechanism until I move the extractor. YMMV

Admittedly, it may not translate to Kahr pistols, but in 1911's the last round ejection to my forehead often indicates too tight an extractor or one that is not moving freely due to crud. The unique ejection behavior on the last round is common in my 1911's, probably because there is no round poised to at the top of the magazine for it to bounce off when you fire that last shot. Yeah, Kahr's probably are different. Who knows?! ;)

[Native]

Thanks Tucson (and everyone else). Part of the reason I bought this gun knowing it was going to be a "project gun" was because I'd be able to post results and get feedback on this forum. Much different than the one that rhymes with rocktalk. Nobody even flamed me for picking up a MA compliant PM9 that has a safety even though not necessary in my state (or on a PM9 for that matter). Gotta love those responses like, "my safety's between my ears" and "keep your finger off the trigger and it won't go bang". Very helpful stuff, that. Thanks again for the advice.

[gb6491]

All good and interesting insight from everyone. Thanks. I shot it again today using 12 Federal AE and 13 Speer Lawman. It shot well except there was a failure to eject (sort of) on the last round in the last magazine. This is the same issue as on round 6 after the trip back, where the casing is extracted, the slide locks back like it's supposed to and the casing just lays on top of the magazine. One was facing forward one rearward. The same thing happened once with my LCP. I speculate that it has to do with the next round being absent on the last shot in the mag to give it a little extra push out the ejection port. The first one would have dropped free with a mag change if I were in a tight spot and had to do a fancy mag swap, I don't think the second one would have. So far, If I were in a situation where I needed a .380 as a primary :eek: this one probably wouldn't cut it. Thankfully I don't ever have to conceal anything smaller than a PM9.
I had a similar problem with my CW45. What I found was that as the barrel unlocks and starts down, the fired casing is pulled down with it until it clears the barrel hood. With rounds in the magazine, this is did not cause an issue becuase the unfired round limits how far the fired casing drops (actually supports it, probably pushs it back up the breech face some). Over an empty magazine, the fired case can be pushed further down by the barrel. This can put it in a less than optimum position on the extractor or, as in my case, low enough that the magazine feed lips could knock the case out of the extractor's grip before it reached the ejector. In the first instance, the case does not eject as smartly as when the extractor has a better grip/higher hold on it. The latter quite often resulted in a fired casing stuck in the ejection port. A new/tuned/stronger extractor might fix the issue. I don't know as I went a different direction and modified my magazines. They no longer knock the case off the extractor and all casings eject without issue.
Regards,
Greg

[TucsonMTB]

Hey Greg! Either that is a brilliant analysis or I should feel foolish for not recognizing that the magazine lips are part of the equation. Rather than feel foolish, I am going for, "that is a brilliant analysis". All done without high speed photography too. ;)

Thanks for sharing your insight. I may have to revisit one of my 1911's with this new found knowledge. Life is good! :D

[Bawanna]

I second the brilliant descriptor. I was not buying the last round not working because there wasn't another round to help it out but the feed lips could certainly be the culprit.

Old GB is indeed the smartest man alive. I hope I can remember half the good stuff I learn here.