Slide slamming shut when loading mag?

[DinoCrayon]

What does this mean? What spring needs to be replaced? My CW45 and PM9 are doing this intermittently, yes even when keeping my hands clear of the slide catch.

ALSO -- is there an easy (fast) way to load a mag in a PM9? the thing is so small that theres very little room to hold the grip. Do you just wrap some fingers on the slide as well? I have never had a pistol this small and usually keep my fingers clear of the slide when loading.

[TucsonMTB]

Is your slide release pushed firmly up into the notch that holds the slide? If not, a +5% magazine spring from Wolff gun springs will help.

Can't help with the reloading issue. I struggle as well.

[DinoCrayon]

Your're saying the magazine spring is causing the slide to close on insertion?

[TucsonMTB]

Not directly, but if your slide locked back when your magazine became empty, but the slide lock did not get pushed firmly into the notch . . . you can probably see the relationship.

Edited to add: Would it be correct to assume you do not have this intermittent problem when you personally lock the slide back and press the lever firmly into the notch?

[Bawanna]

I was trying to understand that myself. A stronger mag spring would only make it worse I would think.

When your slide goes forward on insertion of the mag are you slamming it home or just snapping it in.

I can take both of mine and if I slam the mag in with force it'll drop the slide. Just shear force is popping the slide release lever.

I've only done this to prove the theory to myself when this was discussed earlier. I usually even hold the mag release button down a bit so the mag will slide in without the resistance and click it into place.

I'd say you might just need to adjust the spring on the slide lock lever, tighten the screw just a tad so it offers a little more resistance. If it only happens when you slam it in, I'd not worry about it, it saves a step if it feeds and chambers properly.

[DinoCrayon]

actually it sometimes starts to close a hair before the mag is seated so that 30% of the time it didnt actually rack a round. Ill replace all springs though. The slide catch springs in both guns are unchanged in over 6 years.


Too bad there's no cheap 1911 mag replacements for the PM9 ;)

[jocko]

Is your slide release pushed firmly up into the notch that holds the slide? If not, a +5% magazine spring from Wolff gun springs will help.

Can't help with the reloading issue. I struggle as well.

would be the frist thing I would try, is the 5+ % more spring strength. It might just do the trick. Possabaly some tweeking the the slide slock spring aols butthat would be my last try. How many rounds on therecol springs??? If indoubt replace them, u need toeliminatge the possables. ur issue is not serious either,,

[Bawanna]

Not directly, but if your slide locked back when your magazine became empty, but the slide lock did not get pushed firmly into the slot . . . you can probably see the relationship.

I got you now. Could be a factor too.

[DinoCrayon]

there are probably 1000 rounds thru the mags and unchanged in over 6 years. Guess its due.

Smaller guns are more finicky than full sized I guess.

[Bawanna]

I'm gonna log in as doubtful on the mag springs needing replaced but they are not expensive and certainly worth a try to see if it works.

Small guns can be a bit more finicky and need maybe a tad more maintenance from time to time but mag springs last a long long time.

[TucsonMTB]

Betcha' a quarter. ;)

[Bawanna]

Betcha' a quarter. ;)

Could I make payments if I lose?

[TucsonMTB]

`course, I may be biased. None of my OEM Kimber or Dan Wesson mags have their original springs either, but for other spring fatigue related issues. ;)

[TucsonMTB]

Could I make payments if I lose?
Actually, you may already have that much on deposit in your account. :)

[OldLincoln]

Since you are getting the stronger mag springs, I'd say get a new stronger recoil spring. Here's why, slamming the mag home (not recommended) must be jarring the slide or the tension on the slide release would hold it firm. Also shipping cost makes it worthwhile to get all you need in one trip.

[Bawanna]

actually it sometimes starts to close a hair before the mag is seated so that 30% of the time it didnt actually rack a round. Ill replace all springs though. The slide catch springs in both guns are unchanged in over 6 years.


Too bad there's no cheap 1911 mag replacements for the PM9 ;)

I missed the first part of this post which would certainly strengthen the mag spring questionable theory but I'm still in for a quarter. I'm sticking with the slide lock lever/spring conspiracy.

[DinoCrayon]

can I mess anything up by tightening the slide lock screw?

[Bawanna]

Actually, you may already have that much on deposit in your account. :)

I have an account? Wow. I got a deal in the mail the other day wanting to know if I wanted to renew my Identity theft insurance that I didn't know I even had but have been paying for for 3 years. Nobody remembers signing up for it. I cancelled it.

Having an account is a good thing though. Payment plan.

I'm almost ashamed to admit this but I've never replaced a magazine spring in any of my personal guns. I have replaced them in dept officer guns but still dont think they were needed. Better safe than sorry though. I don't recall ever replacing a recoil spring either on mine, several on dept guns. I've been meaning to order some to have on hand cause I know my day will come but everything works fine. I do spread my shooting out over many guns so not just one getting shot lots but they all get shot from time to time. I think my PM45 and Cbob have finally become long term carry guns and they get shot every trip so they might need changing some day. I was bouncing around on carry guns for awhile, heck I might still, I like variety as long as it works.

[Bawanna]

can I mess anything up by tightening the slide lock screw?

You want to be very careful and just get it snug so you dont strip it out. GB has a good thread here someplace that explains very well how that spring is suppose to work and I think he even had a very similar issue.
I'll see if I can find it and post the link. One of these other guys will beat me I know, they are wicked fast.

[DinoCrayon]

I'll see if I can find it and post the link. One of these other guys will beat me I know, they are wicked fast.

Thanks I'd appreciate it--Im not the best at gunsmithing lol

[Bawanna]

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1612&highlight=slide+stop+spring

Here you go. There's also very good info on some of the other issues discussed around here recently as well.
Scroll down until you see a picture of the slide stop spring. It's on the first page but a ways down.

Good stuff.

[cfiblc]

I am a little confused.

I just recently purchased a Kahr CW45 and I have this "problem" as well. The pistol has 100 rounds through it. It has done this out of the box but only with a fully loaded magazine. 1 less and it doesn't automatically close. If you do not push it hard (basically slam it) when inserting the magazine it doesn't do it. My small wife couldn't do it when she tried. I honestly thought of it as a feature for rapid magazine change. It does it with both of my magazines. Is this something I need to check into or is it ok to just let it go?

[Bawanna]

Based on what you've said I'd say you don't have an issue. If you slam a magazine quite often the slide will close. If it doesn't do that when you click it into place even semi briskly you perfectly fine.
I think of it same as you, in a priority rush mag change the slide dropping is a good thing.

Next time you shoot I'd look at the slide stop, slide notch correlation after you shoot the last round and see if its properly all the way up in the notch. If it's just barely grabbing the notch then it might be something to look at, with the follower, mag spring or slide stop lever spring.

I think your fine.

[jocko]

I can slam my G19 and 8 out of 10 times thw slide will release. If u sit there and study it alittle u will see why. DOn't SLAM.

tHEN THERE ARE SOME SPEED SHOOTERS AND RAMBO'S WHO ALSO THINK SLAMMNG AND THE SLIDE RELEASE IS A GOOD THING AND ELIMINATES ON MORE MOTION. So pick you poision..

somthing will wear over time, that is a given..

[TucsonMTB]

I could be wrong, but I think what Jocko is suggesting is that:

1. There is some potential for vertical movement of the slide when hit from the bottom. The Kahr rail design in particular does not limit vertical motion as much as some others.

Note: If you look around, you can probably find people talking about their CW9 slide moving up and down when they dry fire without a magazine in place. That's pretty loose but is apparently a design feature. Inserting a magazine loaded with even a single snap cap eliminates the movement while dry firing by pressing up on the bottom of the slide.

2. When you insert a full magazine, the top round can put quite a bit of force on the bottom of the slide. The fully loaded magazine is, after all, almost a solid stack of cartridges with a compressed spring at the bottom.

3. Slamming in a full magazine, especially if the slide lock is not fully engaged or the notch is worn really smooth, is likely to jar the slide upward enough to release the slide lock. Inserting firmly, is not a problem on any of my pistols. It's the over energetic action you might want to avoid.

Yes, probably we have all seen this same behavior on several brands of semi-automatics. Some people think it's cool. So long as it doesn't happen when you don't want it to, it may be.

In my opinion, if your pistol closes when you don't expect it to and you are not slamming in the magazine with excessive force, it seems like your not getting a good slide lock. I believe that may be the result of insufficient force pushing up the lever when the magazine empties. The magazine spring provides this force to push the lever to lock back the slide after your last round.

For me, stronger magazine springs result in more reliable locking back of the slide after that last round. At the same time, the stronger mag spring allows the slide lock spring to be adjusted to prevent premature lock backs more easily. You can have it bend down a little more, but still expect the stronger mag spring to push up the lever and lock back the slide at the proper time. As always, YMMV (your mileage may vary). :D

[jocko]

what tucson stated is dead right, same guns can do different things to. but the slide is heavy and the momentum of a magazine being slammed into a gun what is not attached to the lower grip has the option of moving upward. Just slow down your mag insert, I have for years and years always when inserting a magazine just touching the mag button to let it slip past it with ease and then I give it alittle love tap to make sure it is seated. I have never slammed magazines in any semi EVER.

If u look at that thread that bawanna posted for you by GB6491, it is super. the best picture tutorial u will ever find, I should be of some help to you also.

FWIW, I always rub a finger of great on that interface bare (long baron bottom of the slide)I don't put a real build up on tha bar but there is lub there. Just helps slide over those rounds easier IMO.

everyone has their own methods of what makes their guns work perfecrt and if scratching your ass while racking the slide works perfect for you, then who am I or anyone else to tellyou , your doing it wrong. take clala the comments from posters here with a grain of salt, analyze them all and decide if they are bertter than what your doing now. What works for me might not work for you..

[TucsonMTB]

I have an account? Wow. I got a deal in the mail the other day wanting to know if I wanted to renew my Identity theft insurance that I didn't know I even had but have been paying for for 3 years. Nobody remembers signing up for it. I cancelled it.

Having an account is a good thing though. Payment plan.

I'm almost ashamed to admit this but I've never replaced a magazine spring in any of my personal guns. I have replaced them in dept officer guns but still dont think they were needed. Better safe than sorry though. I don't recall ever replacing a recoil spring either on mine, several on dept guns. I've been meaning to order some to have on hand cause I know my day will come but everything works fine. I do spread my shooting out over many guns so not just one getting shot lots but they all get shot from time to time. I think my PM45 and Cbob have finally become long term carry guns and they get shot every trip so they might need changing some day. I was bouncing around on carry guns for awhile, heck I might still, I like variety as long as it works.
Yes, Bawanna, you have a personal account with me for these small wagers. Your dedication and great advice during the time I have been here provides a nice starting balance. Unfortunately, it is just "Monopoly Money". ;)

You also may be buying better magazines than I. Yes, I have a few Wilson Combats and a few Tripps, but most are just Kimbers or the generic mags that Dan Wesson OEM's. They fit flush which pleases me more than the quality stuff with bumpers on the bottom.

When my Kimber springs got tired, I installed Wolff springs and lost a round of capacity. 7 rounds in the magazine is enough for me. I try to avoid places where I might encounter 8 or more bad guys at the same time. Your officers may not have that luxury. :rolleyes:

I also have a bad habit of fixing everything whenever a single mag develops a problem. And I don't methodically rotate anything, not even tires, let alone mags. Points to you again here. :)

Hey, I am just a limited, older guy who likes to have fun and hates having to explain to his spouse why her pistol is not working. So, I prevent that discussion at all costs. As always YMMV. :D

[Bawanna]

I agree, I don't even top load my mags, I fill the mag and load, don't do the plus one thing. I would not hesitate to replace springs the second I anticipate or experience problems but I hate to fix stuff that ain't broken. For the officers as you say, I take preemptive measures and try to stay far ahead of any problems. They are far more likely to need it than I.
I used to be a machine at rotating magazines and still do from time to time but I believe that modern springs are so much better than the old days that it's really not that big an issue anymore.
I should be more diligent about round counts, I try but with my son and I usually both shooting it's hard to stay real accurate not knowing how many went thru his or mine.
I also should be doing some recoil spring swapping soon but again everything works perfect cept my little Colt Woodsman which has an issue but otherwise we're all good.

[jeep45238]

I personally take advantage of the slide going home when I load a mag. I also top off my mags (do the plus one thing), and slam the **** out of the mag into the gun. I want o make sure that puppy is in there and isn't coming out (I've seen too many people ***** foot the mag into the gun, only to have it fall out after a shot or two).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjLbFOw8sow

But from the sounds of your first post, it's more likely that the slide stop is not fully engaging the slide stop due to the intermittent nature of it.

[cfiblc]

Thank you all for your responses.

[Mr. Zero]

There is nothing wrong with your gun. Lots of guns will do this. Try this; slam the mag home by hitting the mag square on the bottom (pushing the gun straight up) and it more than likely not close, but it you slam it in with pressure at a diagonal (pushing the gun up and forward) it will dis-engage the slide stop.

This is discussed on a video I saw, I think it was Mag-pul, but I cant remember.

[coreymol]

I had this same issue on my new CW45 I took it to the range the day after buying it, taking it home to clean and lube it. I took it to the range with 250 rds. I never "slammed" my mag into the pistol BUT what i did notice is that after a few magazines the slide stop would start to come lose and stick out. I pushed in back in and then no problems until a few more mags. The slide would go forward but would not feed both times. I noticied the slide stop getting loose a few other times but corrected it right away.


Anyone else having this issue?

[jocko]

if ur slide stop is moving ouot of position do two things.
#1 refer to gb6491 photo tutori9al of this fix in kahr tech section under cw 45 fixes, scroll down and you willfind it.


#2, call kahr and get a new slide stop sprig ande then go to sears and buy a #6 torx tool and follow GB6491 installation. It is simple to do.

[coreymol]

if ur slide stop is moving ouot of position do two things.
#1 refer to gb6491 photo tutori9al of this fix in kahr tech section under cw 45 fixes, scroll down and you willfind it.


#2, call kahr and get a new slide stop sprig ande then go to sears and buy a #6 torx tool and follow GB6491 installation. It is simple to do.



Thanks! I found the one about changing the spring, was that the only one you were refering to?

Plus I read a lot of the other posts yours included...... I actually did just about everything you said to do on your prep sticky before I even read it! So that makes me happy. If interested I did a write up of my range day plus some issues I had earlier on with another Kahr, it is on my personal blog which can be reached from my profile. I dont want to post a link here cause I dont want anyone to think I am spaming or trolling which I am NOT doing.

Thanks again, Ill be calling Kahr soon.