Recoil comparison CW9 vs CW45

[lostagain]

I am looking for some input from the more experienced members on felt recoil on the CW45 vs the CW9. I am a relatively new shooter and have about 800 rounds though my CW9 and really enjoy it. I don’t notice the recoil much on it anymore. Unfortunately the local range does not have Kahrs to rent.
About a year ago I shot a CW40 and didn’t care for it much. It’s reputation of being snappy and my lack experience didn’t add up to a gun I thought I would shoot much. Maybe after getting use to the 9mm I might have a different opinion.
What sparked my interest is having shot my son’s Kimber 45acp and being surprised at the recoil not being much more than the CW9. How will the CW45 and the even the PM45 compare to the CW9? I did a search in the forum and didn’t find much more than a few off hand comments. :confused:

[CJB]

The recoil can be calculated - to an approximate point. There's things going on with the exiting gas, mostly on long guns though. There's how the recoil is transmitted over the time domain... you cant really calculate the true "recoil" of an autoloader, since different parts will give up their energy at varying times in the recoil cycle.

You can use conservation of momentum to calculate the slide velocity

bullet weight x velocity = slide weight x velocity

Convert all weights to grains. There are 437.5 grains per ounce.

You can say that a bullet weighing 100grains moving at 1000fps will impart a slide velocity of 10fps when the slide weighs 10,000 grains. Take into consideration the barrel weight and half the recoil spring weight (not strength but weight) when doing the math.

You can then calculate the energy of the recoiling parts, where energy will be 1/2 the weight x the velocity squared

Compare the two, for 45acp and 9mm. The slides and barrels and such are heavier on the 45 - they have to be - to keep the slide velocity down to something reasonable, which will let the other parts do their jobs (like raise up a new round to chamber...), etc., and not beat things up too badly.

Most folks will call the 45 noticeably more recoiling than a 9mm, but not to the point of unmanageability or being uncontrollable. Both recoil less than a similarly sized 357 magnum revolver - which can be quite sharp. I like to think the PM45 I've got shoots not much differently than 38+p's in the little Ruger SP101 .38. The 9 would be more like regular 38's in the same gun. Its shades of rather mellow, but ample, recoil, not a night/day difference.

[newkahrowner]

I own both of said pistols and about as much i can say is that its not bad at all! I would compare going from a 380 to a 9mm to going from the cw9 to the cw45. I was also concerned because i have some damage to my right hand and was worried about being able to handle the cw45, but to be completely honest i had more trouble shooting the taurus 709 slim 9mm! Which is why i bought the cw9 in the first place, Then i shot the cw45 and found one for $379.00 so i bought it too and other than being an expensive gun to shoot i find it more enjoyable! ive read that the cw40 kicks as much if not more than the cw45 but i dont feel bad in saying its not tough to shoot at all! just oil it well the first time you shoot it unlike me lol

[Bawanna]

I think its all about felt recoil. The 9 is a fast sharp jolt, not a lot of recoil, the 40 is the same on steroids. Sharp crack. The 45 is much slower, less jolt, more push and a boom not a crack.
I could shoot my PM 45 all day long or until I run out of ammo. Much prefer the tupperware 45 to my steel K40.
I've found many people who are really surprised when they shoot the 45. I think alot is preconceived beliefs. My dad, not a gun guy raised me to belive a 12 ga shotgun was the worst punishment a man could withstand. Now of course we know its mostly what you feed it.

[NewBlackDak]

A buddy has a CW9, and I have a CW45. I love 9mm in my G17/XDm, but not in the CW9. I much prefer the CW45, because I have bigger hands and there is more to hols onto.

[newkahrowner]

ive been toying with different ways of firing the cw45 and i find if i leave the trigger pulled and just let the gun do its thing after the shot and controll the recoil (if that makes any sense) i shoot it alot better. Infact i put 4 out of 6 rounds in the same hole at 21 feet. i know its close but ive only been shooting for 2 months!

[jocko]

sl;opw
I think its all about felt recoil. The 9 is a fast sharp jolt, not a lot of recoil, the 40 is the same on steroids. Sharp crack. The 45 is much slower, less jolt, more push and a boom not a crack.
I could shoot my PM 45 all day long or until I run out of ammo. Much prefer the tupperware 45 to my steel K40.
I've found many people who are really surprised when they shoot the 45. I think alot is preconceived beliefs. My dad, not a gun guy raised me to belive a 12 ga shotgun was the worst punishment a man could withstand. Now of course we know its mostly what you feed it.

On sndays when the kids are home we play ring toss with my brothers 45. we put a bucket out therer 20 yards and see who can shoot and drop his rounds in the bucket. Lots of fun Bawanna:blah:

damn truth to;)

[lostagain]

Thanks for the responses and varied descriptions. I knew the size of the gun would have an effect on how it transfered the feel of the recoil. I need to review the muzzle velocity differences and learn how that effects things as well.

Bawanna, that is an interesting discription of the differences. I will have to pay closeer attention next time I go to the range with my son and fire off a few rounds on his Kimber.

I like the idea of the CW45 and am curious about the smaller PM45. I wonder if Kahr is working on a CM45. Checked their sote last night and didn't see anything yet.

Always something new to learn, Thanks

[Bawanna]

Thanks for the responses and varied descriptions. I knew the size of the gun would have an effect on how it transfered the feel of the recoil. I need to review the muzzle velocity differences and learn how that effects things as well.

Bawanna, that is an interesting discription of the differences. I will have to pay closeer attention next time I go to the range with my son and fire off a few rounds on his Kimber.

I like the idea of the CW45 and am curious about the smaller PM45. I wonder if Kahr is working on a CM45. Checked their sote last night and didn't see anything yet.

Always something new to learn, Thanks

I predict that they will indeed one day make a CM45 but I don't think it will be very soon. I imagine it would be a year or more out and of course thats just my own guess.
There's no substitute for actually shooting a gun to experience the feel. You can study ballistics till the cows come home and it won't mean a thing.
A short story to share regarding recoil. I attended a Winchester ammunition workshop a few years ago that our local prison hosted at their range. They shot a lot of rounds from various manufacturers and of course their own in 9mm, 40, and 45.
There was a female guard shooting the 9 and the 40 thru various media into ballistic gelatin which was then measured all scientifically and then a male shooting the 45. I was positioned very close to the table they fired from and through the course of the day spoke with both of the shooters quite a bit. I finally asked her why she never shot the 45. Or response was the recoil was too much for her. I asked if she'd ever actually tried it and she had not. The instructors had convinced her that being a girl it would be too much.
Well the show came to a screeching halt, (the host overheard her reply also) while we watched her shoot that 45 a full size Glock as I recall, while about 50 people all watched. I don't recall her exact words but something like "This thing don't kick half as much as that 40 you lieing sacks! And another 45 convert was born.

[O'Dell]

I've had a CW9, CW45, and PM45, and currently have a PM9 and CW40. The others are pussycats compared to the CW40. With the CW45 you have enough grip to help you hold the gun. I would rate them CW9, PM9, CW45, PM45 and CW40 lowest to highest. Fortunately I'm not recoil sensitive and can actually shoot the CW40 fairly well.

[Bawanna]

I'd have to concur with your list, sounds about right to me.

I've not shot a PM40 or a CW40 yet. Would like to sometime to see if I'm man enough. Highly doubtful. I get along fine with my K40 but she barks some too.

I use to be in a rabid search for recoil in my youth, I owned and shot some insanely big handguns and rifles, a 460 Weatherby once made me think my false teeth fell out till I remembered I didn't have false teeth.

While I'm still not recoil sensitive I'm not as hungry for it anymore and I much prefer something comfy to shoot. Long as it's 45 of course.

[jocko]

wella it is ot hard to sow the felt recoil difference in the 40 vs 45 expecialy inh the lifghtweight kahr line. I don't own a 40 cal of nuttin but for me I would not own a kahr 40 cal, it is a hard gun to enjoy shooting, as most of the reports on this forum even state. sure there are guns who can handle a 40 with ease. I feel I could to but lets face it the 40 is a cannon gun and in a small frame like kahrs it is a rocket cannon Even u bawanna who owns a K40 and it is ported even have reported that u know it when it goes bang over a 45, which to me has legs on the bullet in hopes that it makes it to the target.!!!! I just had to add that little snipe remark to u 45 lovers.

[Bawanna]

It's always the leg jokes. Legs, legs, legs. I sometimes feel like a pair of panty hose.

:D:D:D

[TheTman]

When comparing my CW45 to my CW40, I notice the .45 has a bit more recoil (230 gr FMJ). Not a lot more, but it felt nice to move down to the .40 (165 gr FMJ) after a couple hundred rounds through the .45. Hope that helps in someway. My 9 is a big ole Star M30, which has practically no recoil at all when compared to the CW45. Some say the CW45 recoil is more of a push than a snappy type of deal, I didn't really notice that, muzzle flip seemed just as bad as the .40 if not worse. The .40 sure felt a lot easier on the hand than the .45 did. I see others have different opinions so I guess you'd have to try em out yourself to really compare.

[O'Dell]

I have three 40's, the CW, an M&P compact and a FS HK USP. The M&P is a bit larger than the CW but not much and it only weighs a few ozs more. The HK is a large gun and a few ozs more than the M&P. I really don't have a problem with any of them, but I do think they are snappier than any of my 45's, of which I have 6. Two of the 45's are in the 22 oz range which is about the same as the M&P 40.

[DKD]

To Captain Kirk..."You can not change the laws of physic's captain..."
All joking aside, some of the guys hit the nail on the head so to spaek. I own alot of 9mm's and 45 ACP's.
I enjoy shooting my PM9 and when I owned it my MK9 Elite. With heavier round they get more snappy in a polymer framed weapon to be sure, but I agrre not any different than any +p 38 Spl.
I agree with BAWANNA that the PM45 ain't bad at all...more of a push than a snappy recoil...now that changes alittle with heavier bullets especially +P 45 ACP's...also when fired from a light & small package like the PM45 the laws of physic's rear their ugly head once more. All in all not as bad as any snubby .357 mag though. There are so many variables here, onemust factot in the mass of the pistol as well as the load being fired in said pistol. You have to exspect some muzzle flip...again that is a large slug moving at a leisurley pace...remember the "for every reaction there is an equal opposite reaction".

Long and short of it if you can tolerate +P 9mm in your PM9 or CW9 you van handle the PM45 with most ammo. The lighter 185 grainers and 200 grainers recoil less and will be close to the heavys in 147 grain 9mm's.

I own several 9mm's as well as a boatload of 45 cals pistols more numerous than I care to discuss at the moment. I say if you enjoy your son's 45 Light Weight Kimber, than you will also enjoy the Kahr PM45. I am quite partial to my 45's, can't help it Jocko sorry......does it show BAWANNA...??

The devil made me do it. As a wise man once told me with a 45 "they will see the flash and will not hear the bang"

[jocko]

dkd: I understand ur stance, more than likely u probably voted for obama, so I can see where you and bawanna are coming from!!!!!

[DKD]

Damn brother Jocko that hurt son.

I'd rather shovle sh-t in Lousiana than vote for that moron. Ifin he had a brain it would be lonsome and thats for sure and for certain.

[DKD]

Jocko just so that you don't feel left out. My work day carry is my PM9 due to dress down here in sunny Florida.
I also own a P-38, XD9 compact as well as my PM9 and in the past I even owned a few Rugger 9's asa well as a Baretta 92FS. I am an equal opportunity offender.

[Bawanna]

Darn I've seen some low blows and some really nasty icky mud slung around here in the past but Jocko, that was really really low.
I'd much rather be called a (well I've been called just about everything I reckon but it was all better than your accusation).

I too own a Beretta 92FS (not sure why) but I do own it so I'm trying to fit in. So far up here in the wet NW I haven't found a need for a super compact 9. Why do I gag a little bit as I write that. Even on hot days the rain coat will hide just about anything. But if the day ever comes I'm gonna sign up for a CM9 or a PM9.
The wife did in fact get her CCW so I plan to show her both those too along with some revolvers. I'm reluctant to give her my Colt Cobra but she might take it anyway.
Then at least I'll be able to say I live with somebody that carrys a 9mm.

[jocko]

Jocko just so that you don't feel left out. My work day carry is my PM9 due to dress down here in sunny Florida.
I also own a P-38, XD9 compact as well as my PM9 and in the past I even owned a few Rugger 9's asa well as a Baretta 92FS. I am an equal opportunity offender.

thats alot better:D

[jocko]

nice try great one, keep working at it, u might eventually say somethng that makes sense.

[Bawanna]

Wow DKD gets a makeup and I get the boot heal. I had a 3rd generation S&W 9mm once, and a first generation Glockenspiel 9mm.
I even had a 25 auto Browning until my worthless low down jerk who I thought was my friend scammed me out of it, the low life pond scum sucker.
I know my mouse guns.

I got lots of 22's. Am I getting anywhere here?

I better write Dear Dietrich. I just wanna be your pal.

[lostagain]

Great feedback on my question so far :). I think my conclusion is to shift my toy budget into category number 45. My son's Kimber is pretty nice but I sure like the size of and features in the CW and I definitely lean in that direction.

[joeyvco]

I & my 15 yr old son shoot my Colt Gov. 45, a CW 45, & a Star Firestar 9mm. In order of smoothness & recoil felt from best to worst they are as follows ; Colt Gov. 45 ACP, Kahr CW 45, Star 9mm. The 9mm is just snappier than the 45's, the 45's are smoother so you dont feel that snap in your wrist. I'v had a 40 also & think they are quite snappy! Dont fear the 45 ! they are great !