Kahr Trigger vs. SIG DAK Trigger

[Mudinyeri]

This is not another Ford vs. Chevy, Glock vs. ... whatever threads. What I'm looking for is one or more individuals who've had the opportunity to own/shoot both a Kahr and a SIG with the DAK trigger. I'd like to hear a comparison of the two triggers - anything you feel is relevant.

From what I've read elsewhere, the SIG DAK trigger is a lighter pull with a shorter (possible) reset, but similarly smooth. People who love their DA/SA SIG triggers don't tend to like the DAK. People who compare them to most striker-fired pistols seem to like the DAK in general.

Anyone here have experience with both the Kahr triggers and the SIG DAK's?

[Mudinyeri]

Nobody? :eek:

[jocko]

Probably not, but if I owned both I would not probalby try to give a comparison, each works differently, both are great triggers. Mertis and demerits to both. We have read here many many times about owner stating I wishg the trigger pull was alot shorter. It is kwhat it is, probalby one of thge saftest semi striker fired guns out there..

I always thought the ability to double strike a round that did not go off was a big sales thing over real reality. We don't do that in a revolver, we go to another cylinder, Most shooters are trained in the tap,rack and bang drills. Most that I have asked wantto get that misfired ropund out ofthe gun as soon as possable. If it doesnt go off the first time, normally it ain't gonna go off, why keep pounding that primer to oblivian. Just my 2 cents, which today at the coffe shop I found it iwas not worth 2 cents even..

[Bawanna]

This is not another Ford vs. Chevy, Glock vs. ... whatever threads. What I'm looking for is one or more individuals who've had the opportunity to own/shoot both a Kahr and a SIG with the DAK trigger. I'd like to hear a comparison of the two triggers - anything you feel is relevant.

From what I've read elsewhere, the SIG DAK trigger is a lighter pull with a shorter (possible) reset, but similarly smooth. People who love their DA/SA SIG triggers don't tend to like the DAK. People who compare them to most striker-fired pistols seem to like the DAK in general.

Anyone here have experience with both the Kahr triggers and the SIG DAK's?

I was reluctant to chime in because I haven't shot the DAK but I have fondled it extensively several times but not recently. I don't recall what the reset was like but I suspect it wasn't too short. The DAK compares very well to the Para LDA trigger if you've ever played with one of those. A long very light take up till you hit resistance, then it acts like a 1911 till it goes bang. Same pull every time. Very easy to stage. Like a 1911 with a safety margin built into the trigger pull. I liked that it did have second strike capablility. I thought that was great.
The Kahr of course has a consistant long pull all the way thru so it's really not the same.
As you stated many people do not like the Para LDA trigger and those same folks wouldn't care for the DAK. I suspect its for the long reset issue.
Personally I loved the DAK trigger. For some unexplainable reason I just don't fit well with Sigs. I really want the SAS 220 with the DAK trigger, all melted down, nice gun but I know I wouldn't shoot well with it. Just don't fit me right. I had a Sig Pro 40 for awhile, just wasn't a good match. Fortunately I have this issue with very few guns. I can adapt to most anything that goes bang.
Actually the HK's fall in the same category, just not right for me. Maybe I need councelling.

[pappy42]

I have extensive experience with the Sig DAK and own both Sig and a Kahr PM45.

I like both triggers and like the other fellows mentioned; they both have pros and cons.

I'm a believer in double strike capability because I can hit the trigger faster than I can tap, rack, and bang. Fortunately, misfires in factory ammo are not frequent occurences.

The Kahr trigger is nice also. Whatever system you choose will better serve you if you practice, practice, practise.

[O'Dell]

Personally as a long time SIG shooter, I prefer the TDA, ie DA/SA. Both my HK's, 3rd gen S&W's, and P220 have it. Close behind are the 1911 style SA's. The Kahrs are pretty good for a DAO and the M&P 40 DA is better than the stolen 45. I do stage them although most people say I shouldn't. I had a P220 with the DAK trigger, but traded it because I wasn't crazy about it.

[bigbob68]

I could never get used to the DAK trigger so I sold the P229. The Kahr trigger is very easy to get used to.

[mr surveyor]

I've wondered about the DAK trigger myself, and considered sending my DA/SA P239 40 cal to Sig for the DAK conversion. As I get older I want to simplify things as much as possible, thus my favorite daily carries of the DA Kahr CW9 and DA/SA Ruger SP101. My concern isn't so much in engaging in a necessary use of force with any of my handguns, whether SA, DA, or DA/SA, but with the need to either engage the safety of the SA or use the decocker on the DA/SA in the aftermath period. There's a lot to consider when moving towards the KISS principle. As for my Sig, I just can't seem to risk ruining a perfectly good pistol so It will remain in it's perfectly created DA/SA state whether I retire it completely from carry duty or not.


surv

[O'Dell]

I've wondered about the DAK trigger myself, and considered sending my DA/SA P239 40 cal to Sig for the DAK conversion. As I get older I want to simplify things as much as possible, thus my favorite daily carries of the DA Kahr CW9 and DA/SA Ruger SP101. My concern isn't so much in engaging in a necessary use of force with any of my handguns, whether SA, DA, or DA/SA, but with the need to either engage the safety of the SA or use the decocker on the DA/SA in the aftermath period. There's a lot to consider when moving towards the KISS principle. As for my Sig, I just can't seem to risk ruining a perfectly good pistol so It will remain in it's perfectly created DA/SA state whether I retire it completely from carry duty or not.


surv

Couldn't agree more about keeping the SIG as is.

[pappy42]

I've wondered about the DAK trigger myself, and considered sending my DA/SA P239 40 cal to Sig for the DAK conversion. As I get older I want to simplify things as much as possible, thus my favorite daily carries of the DA Kahr CW9 and DA/SA Ruger SP101. My concern isn't so much in engaging in a necessary use of force with any of my handguns, whether SA, DA, or DA/SA, but with the need to either engage the safety of the SA or use the decocker on the DA/SA in the aftermath period. There's a lot to consider when moving towards the KISS principle. As for my Sig, I just can't seem to risk ruining a perfectly good pistol so It will remain in it's perfectly created DA/SA state whether I retire it completely from carry duty or not.


surv

Mr S, depending on the age of your 239, you may not have the required cut in the frame for the DAK conversion. In my experience, the DAK action in the239 is not a great improvement over the DAO version. The reason is that the 239 frame does not have the space available for the larger cut (more leverage for the DAK parts) as do the larger frames.

That said; the DAO conversion is a simple one for either the factory or any Sig armorer. It requires a hammer w/o the single action notch. Removing the decocker and spring completes the conversion.

[Mudinyeri]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. The SIG should be here tomorrow.

[Mudinyeri]

After my initial outing with the SIG, here are my thoughts:

Both the SIG DAK and the Kahr triggers are long and smooth.

The SIG DAK trigger has an intermediate reset that allows a less-than-full stroke trigger reset. While this is a nice feature, there is a bit of a down side. When utilizing the intermediate reset, the initial trigger pull is rated at 6.5 lbs. Subsequent trigger pulls are rated at 8.5 lbs. It sort of feels like the reverse of a DA/SA pistol.

Optionally, one can also reset the trigger with a full stroke. This allows for 6.5 lbs subseqent shots.

Much like the Kahr, the SIG is more accurate with a very firm grip and something of a two-stage trigger pull. This is fine for slow-fire, but not very practical in typical self-defense scenarios.

Note the two targets pictured below. I shot both targets at roughly one round per second firing from approximately ten yards. However, I shot the second target utilizing more of a two-stage type of pull. You can see the shots are much more vertically centered. Either one would probably work for self-defense but it's unlikely that I, personally, could duplicate the two-stage style pull in a high-adrenaline scenario.

If one mastered the intermediate reset (muscle memory) and was able to successfully deal with the heavier subsequent trigger pulls, I would think this would be where the DAK trigger would really shine. I don't intend for the SIG to be my primary carry weapon so it is unlikely that I will ever reach this level of competence with the gun.

Full Single-stage Trigger Pull (ignore the smaller holes): 4/12 in Black, 2/12 in Orange
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/Mudinyeri/Guns/IMAG0181.jpg

Two-stage Style Trigger Pull (full stroke reset): 7/12 in Black, 4/12 in Orange
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/Mudinyeri/Guns/IMAG0182.jpg

[Barth]

I have a classic P220 (10+ years old) and a couple year old P239/357.
Both guns are DA/SA. They both have some of the best DA/SA auto
triggers I've ever pulled. I'd give the P239 the edge but that may be
cause it's newer.

Then, just recently I got a Kahr MK40 Elite. To my surprise I think
the Kahr trigger is actually better (to me).

The only handgun that's better than the kahr to me is my
S&W 629-2 44 Mag Mountain Gun.
But that's not really fair as the Mountain Gun
is an all stainless revolver with a trigger job and an over travel
adjustment.

I've been interested in the DAK, but never had the opportunity to try it.
It's hard for me to believe it would be better than an all steel Elite Kahr
though. Both Sig triggers feel slightly "spongy" to me.

For what it's worth....

[8th SPS USAF]

I have owned many KAHR's and I think the trigger is great. I also have 2 DAK
220's and 1 DAO 220. I shot DA rev for over 35 years , so DAO/DAK, etc is
no sweat. I like that in a heartbeat you may have to use it to protect yourself
or familly , and even with years of training, you don't want to think about different trigger pull. Possible AD? I like same trigger pull on all my guns ,all the time. IMO.

[kpm9]

The HK LEM is closer to the Kahr trigger than the DAK.

The DAK's problem is the 2 different trigger pull weights. To be consistent, it helps to have a consistent trigger pull.

[O'Dell]

I think the Kahr trigger is better, especially for a carry gun, which my SIG's are not. I prefer the TDA on my SIG's, and, in fact, sold a P220 earlier this year because I didn't like the DAK trigger.

[SkeletonSlinky]

"I always thought the ability to double strike a round that did not go off was a big sales thing over real reality. We don't do that in a revolver, we go to another cylinder, Most shooters are trained in the tap,rack and bang drills."

Would someone mind describing the tap, rack and bang drill for us newbs...want to be sure I know what I need to practice?! Thanks.

[jlottmc]

Tap the bottom of the magazine (HARD), Rack the slide (clears anything that is not major malfunction from chamber, or another way of looking at it, gives a fresh start), Bang, (pull the trigger, and guess what should happen) All done as quickly as possible while preferably not in a gunfight, or second best behind cover, and praying that the malfunction is not more serious.

[SkeletonSlinky]

jlottmc, thanks for clarifying the "tap, rack and bang"...I'll start doing some of those drills. Who knows, might save my life some day!

[jlottmc]

No worries, that's what we're here for.