Pm9 ftf

[Spiker101]

Got my Pm9 2month ago new. I have ~800 rd through it. However it is experiencing increasing amout of ftf. All of them are where the round take a nose dive and go under the ramp. At first they are the first round to chamber. Now in is happping more often and are not the first round. It happens 4 times out of 120 rounds today..Really frustrated

What do you think is the problem

[CJB]

My experience says that when ammo nose dives, usually its too short. My own PM45 has been very forgiving of short ammo, less forgiving of long ammo (wont fit in magazine!). But yours is a PM9.. cant say for sure. I'd try a different brand/lot/type of ammo just to rule things out.

[TucsonMTB]

Do you have more than one carry magazine? If so, are you experiencing the problem with both / all? I ask because magazine springs sometimes weaken with use. With multiple mags the problem usually develops with the most used mag. That's usually a signal to buy a replacement spring or two. Wolff makes some +5% springs that are cheaper than the springs supplied by Kahr (even though Kahr uses Wolff springs). If a new spring solves your problem, it's a cheap, satisfying fix. I think it may be worth trying.

Alternatively, if you have only one carry magazine, this might be a good time to buy a second. If that solves the problem, replace the spring in the older mag with a new Wolff spring.

Best of luck!

[Spiker101]

Does kahr have those +5% spring. If so i think it should send me one free if charge since the gun never worked 100%. I only use the 6 rounder that came with the gun. So it have ~800 rounds through it. What is the life cycle of the magazine spring? Lastly what is the proper way to reassemble the mag back(proper orentation of the spring)?

[rredneckn2]

Got my Pm9 2month ago new. I have ~800 rd through it. However it is experiencing increasing amout of ftf. All of them are where the round take a nose dive and go under the ramp. At first they are the first round to chamber. Now in is happping more often and are not the first round. It happens 4 times out of 120 rounds today..Really frustrated

What do you think is the problemThis is my first post on this forum.A buddy of mine is having the same problem and it started @ 750-800 rounds.Ran perfect up until that point.Kahr sent him a new recoil spring but it didnt solve it.Kahr wants it sent in now.I bought a cm9 the same day he bought the pm9 and have had no issues after 75 rounds and have 700 thru it at this time.

[TucsonMTB]

So far as I know, Kahr only offers the standard strength spring. If you can get them to send you one under warranty, great. If you have to spend your own money, go for the Wolff offering, which offers a little extra force for locking back the slide reliably and is cheaper.

That presumes it is a sagging spring. The first order of business would be to clean the magazine and ensure that no burrs have developed. Also, check that the follower has not cracked. If it is, Kahr will usually agree to send a replacement at no cost.

When you reassemble the magazine, look at the top loop of the spring. The highest point should be toward the front of the magazine and be positioned to push the nose of the round up. You can probably find a post with more complete instructions by searching the forum.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes, please. We'll wait right here. ;)

[Spiker101]

When you reassemble the magazine, look at the top loop of the spring. The highest point should be toward the front of the magazine and be positioned to push the nose of the round up. You can probably find a post with more complete instructions by searching the forum.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes, please. We'll wait right here. ;)

Ok just to make sure. Basically, you are saying I should install it like picture 1. However, it seems like the manual wants me to install it like picture 2, as seen by the bottom loop of the spring?

They are sending me a new spring assembly hopefully that works. I am going to take my CCW class tonight hopefully it doesnt make a scene lol

[gb6491]

Ok just to make sure. Basically, you are saying I should install it like picture 1. However, it seems like the manual wants me to install it like picture 2, as seen by the bottom loop of the spring?

They are sending me a new spring assembly hopefully that works. I am going to take my CCW class tonight hopefully it doesnt make a scene lol
Picture 1 is correct.
Regards,
Greg

[TucsonMTB]

Ok just to make sure. Basically, you are saying I should install it like picture 1. However, it seems like the manual wants me to install it like picture 2, as seen by the bottom loop of the spring?

They are sending me a new spring assembly hopefully that works. I am going to take my CCW class tonight hopefully it doesnt make a scene lol
Manual? We don't need no stinkin' manual! We have Greg, who knows how to properly assemble a magazine and a whole lot more. ;)

Actually, the manual is generic for several models. The magazine pictured appears to be for a CW series, which has different spring ends than the shorter magazines for your pistol. One end is reversed relative to the other, hence your confusion.

Good luck with your CCW class. With the mag properly assembled, you should be fine. Otherwise, you will get some good practice clearing jams under pressure. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

[kpm9]

If it happens with all your mags, order a new recoil spring.

[kimp]

I just took my new PM9 to the range for the first time today and had several ftfs as well. I will send them back to the factory with the slide...the rear site slides right off. Funny thing is I shot a decent qualification without the rear site.

[Spiker101]

Hum so they sent me a new spring assembly it is a quarter in longer than the old one...tough as nail to get it in...

Once I got it in the slide lock does not work, so I kahr and they told me to cut half a coil off at a time until it start working...what the heck???

First of all I dont know how the spring messed with the slide stop. Second, does anyone think this is going to work or am I just going to waste another 50$ to test it out. How is a longer/stronger spring going to help the ftf because from what I can gather the slide is comming back too fast not too slow. Maybe I should try some +p or NATO round?

[Spiker101]

I just took my new PM9 to the range for the first time today and had several ftfs as well. I will send them back to the factory with the slide...the rear site slides right off. Funny thing is I shot a decent qualification without the rear site.

Was your ftf nose down under the feeding ramp as well?

[TucsonMTB]

Once I got it in the slide lock does not work, so I kahr and they told me to cut half a coil off at a time until it start working...what the heck???
Don't cut it. After a few rounds it will be possible to lock back the slide by hand. Eventually, it will become quite easy to do again.

In the meantime, insert an empty magazine, pull back hard on the slide, and it will lock back.

Trust me. I had the same experience when Kahr worked on my PM40 under warranty and replaced the recoil spring assembly. If you can get past shooting the first few mags, you will be fine.

[jocko]

I just took my new PM9 to the range for the first time today and had several ftfs as well. I will send them back to the factory with the slide...the rear site slides right off. Funny thing is I shot a decent qualification without the rear site.

use, have u done ANY jprepping of the gun, like maybe a good through cleaning, and lub ing and then shooting a hundred of so rounds through it to let it settle in some. Rear sight, alittle locktite under it and it will sit there very nicely. several ftf's. was that in loadnbg kthe first round?. Have you poossably let kanother good shooter try your kahr to narrown down some of the ftfs issues., If he can shoot it and produce the same issues then u can assume it is gun related, if not then u can assume it is shooter related.

I would think you should give the gun some rounds down range instead of boxing it up, as kahr in their manual even states to shoot it 200 rounds before panicking.

[Spiker101]

In the meantime, insert an empty magazine, pull back hard on the slide, and it will lock back.


I tired to pull the slide as hard as I could and it is all the back and it still wont lock :(

[TucsonMTB]

I tired to pull the slide as hard as I could and it is all the back and it still wont lock :(
Did you have an empty magazine inserted? You may be better coordinated than I, but I couldn't pull back with enough force and push up the slide lock by hand. When I really whaled on it and let the magazine push the slide stop, it worked.

No biggie, if you can sling shot a round into the chamber. You really need to do some shooting to compress the spring. That will get you the benefit of the stronger (longer) spring and (once it compresses with use) allow you to lock back the slide. I think I only needed a couple of mags to get back to normal. However, since I usually just sling shot to load the first round anyway, it may have been the full 50 rounds I shot before testing that did the trick.

[Spiker101]

Did you have an empty magazine inserted? You may be better coordinated than I, but I couldn't pull back with enough force and push up the slide lock by hand. When I really whaled on it and let the magazine push the slide stop, it worked.

No biggie, if you can sling shot a round into the chamber. You really need to do some shooting to compress the spring. That will get you the benefit of the stronger (longer) spring and (once it compresses with use) allow you to lock back the slide. I think I only needed a couple of mags to get back to normal. However, since I usually just sling shot to load the first round anyway, it may have been the full 50 rounds I shot before testing that did the trick.

I tried both way, with empty mag or just me pushing the slide stop up, neither works. The problem is that I imagine a longer/stiffer spring is going to make the slide come back even faster and creating even more ftf issues

[TucsonMTB]

I tried both way, with empty mag or just me pushing the slide stop up, neither works. The problem is that I imagine a longer/stiffer spring is going to make the slide come back even faster and creating even more ftf issues
The stronger spring will slow the slide down more effectively during recoil and then push the slide closed with greater force. In the case of mine, which was sent in because it would not reliably go into battery with Winchester 180 grain Ranger ammunition, the stronger spring solved the problem.

I still have occasional three point jams with the 180 grain ammo, but Failure to Feed problems will definitely respond well to stronger springs. And, not just in Kahr's either.

You really need to shoot this thing. You're wasting your time worrying. ;)

[jocko]

Hum so they sent me a new spring assembly it is a quarter in longer than the old one...tough as nail to get it in...

Once I got it in the slide lock does not work, so I kahr and they told me to cut half a coil off at a time until it start working...what the heck???

First of all I dont know how the spring messed with the slide stop. Second, does anyone think this is going to work or am I just going to waste another 50$ to test it out. How is a longer/stronger spring going to help the ftf because from what I can gather the slide is comming back too fast not too slow. Maybe I should try some +p or NATO round?

u by any chance count the coils on your old recoil spring and then the new ":longer" one, if they are the same , then no cutting is required. Naturally a new spring will be longer than one that has been in the gun. A desinged pre set is in every recoil spring. It should take some type of compression and stay there. another reason why a new spring sometimes needs a few rounds out of it to get to that pre designed pre set, or sometimes just racking it will help or even locking it op[en and leaving it sit over night.. no need to try any +p or nato stuff, it should function ok with any american brand ammo

[jocko]

I tired to pull the slide as hard as I could and it is all the back and it still wont lock :(

PM9 the newer model with the beveled fron slide or the older version with the blunt nose slide. each takes a different recoil spring assembly.

[Spiker101]

PM9 the newer model with the beveled fron slide or the older version with the blunt nose slide. each takes a different recoil spring assembly.

newer made just a few months ago.

[jocko]

then there is NO longer outter recoil spring..

[Spiker101]

then there is NO longer outter recoil spring..

So they basically sent me the wrong spring?

[jocko]

count the coil, 15 coils is what it should be...

[Spiker101]

count the coil, 15 coils is what it should be...

Yea there are 15 if i count the close loop at the bottom too. But still the slide wont lock.

Do you guys think I can just solve the ftf problem simply by using a hotter load or defense ammo with shorter tip?

[gb6491]

Spiker101,
Could you post a photo of a typical failure you are experiencing? Some of the feed ramp and breech face?
Have you broken the slide down and cleaned/inspected the extractor tunnel and components?
Regards,
Greg

[jocko]

Yea there are 15 if i count the close loop at the bottom too. But still the slide wont lock.

Do you guys think I can just solve the ftf problem simply by using a hotter load or defense ammo with shorter tip?

kahr should feed um all, so my answeer would still be no, not acceptable. try what GB6491 ask of u, we gotta start somewhere.

I assume the 15 coil count is what your saying is on ur original set up, it should with the new sprig allow the slide to lock open. Mayhbe just going out and shooting 30 or so rounds through it will get the slide kand recoil spring where it shold be.

Have u just tried sitting there and hand racking it 3 or 400 times to get some of the sp;ring compre4ssion stuff going right. If u have the new style slide that recoil assembly should work, although if you must just cip a quareter turn off the open end of the outter spirng and retest and keep doing kthat ujntil it locks open but just a quarter turn at a time. I truly hate to tell a person to clip a factory recoiul spring in order for it to work. That is for mje not acceptable, although I am sure it will be OK.

[Spiker101]

Used dremel and sniped off 1/4 of a loop of the spring and now it fits, I want test it now but I think i am going to wait till i get more magazine to do a more comprehensive test.

[Bawanna]

Well done Spiker, I kind of figured the spring was just a bit long. Taking only a 1/4 was good too. We've hear Kahr recommending to cut coils so it's not unheard of.
I think you in business. Let us know how she works when you get those mags.